Not By Works
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P
Exactly! That's how we know these sanctified people who go back to the world are no longer sons of God. They are to be cast away with the enemies of God:
If they were still sanctified sons of God they would not be subject to the wrath of God for his enemies. Vs. 26 plainly says the sacrifice for sin does not remain for them. They lose it, so they won't be protected from the wrath of God at the Judgment but can instead only look forward to the wrath of God in damnation of the enemies of God.
If they were still sanctified sons of God they would not be subject to the wrath of God for his enemies. Vs. 26 plainly says the sacrifice for sin does not remain for them. They lose it, so they won't be protected from the wrath of God at the Judgment but can instead only look forward to the wrath of God in damnation of the enemies of God.
No worries...I will continue to believe that salvation is eternal and based upon the power of God to keep me there....you on the other hand undermine the work of Jesus and insert yourself and your ability = a works based false gospel....so when you stand before JESUS you can boast of how you kept yourself saved....ME....I will praise JESUS for his work on my behalf....good luck.....
U
Making sweeping generalizations does not help your case
False teachers exist everywhere even perverting the doctrine of grace, but I have yet to read one person here on this message board say sin all you want
You do know that the grace of God teaches us to say no to sin, so how does what you say make any sense?
12It instructs us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives in the present age,
Titus 2:12
It doesn't...it is just another go to phrase used by those who can lose salvation to keep the drones inline with their dogmatic belief that one must keep himself secure.....kind of like the false denominations that push a vanilla café blend church salvation....if your not this or that you are lost and will burn....just more bondage pushed by Satan wrapped in some nice new shiny wrapping paper with a bow on top....
P
If you believe, you have indeed received the life that is eternal. That's not in debate. What is in debate is whether or not you will continue to believe and retain the life that is eternal.
If I gave you a car that runs forever does that mean it can't be a car that runs forever if you don't keep that car? Of course not. It continues to be a car that runs forever even if you no longer possess it. It's just that you yourself do not possess the car that runs forever anymore. Ditto for eternal life. It is indeed eternal, the question is, are you going to hang onto the life that never ends by continuing to believe? It doesn't become disqualified as being eternal just because it's possible for a person to no longer possess the life that is eternal.
I shared the very scriptures that show us faith is a 'thing', not a doing. 'Believing' is what you do in response to the faith you have received that shows us the gospel is true. Surely you have used the phrase, 'the faith to believe'. That illustrates the difference between the two. Faith enables us to then believe. Most people reject faith, the testimony of the Holy Spirit, and choose to not believe in that which faith has shown them to be true.
Faith is simply knowing the gospel is true. Even the demons know the gospel is true! But it is believing in what you know to be true that saves. But so many people take false comfort in simply knowing the gospel is true but not actually trusting in it as evidenced by a change in their character. Correct doctrine never saved a soul. Only believing in what is correct saves.
Until you realize the difference between 'faith'--the knowing that something is true, and the 'believing' that one then must then do in response to knowing the gospel is true, you will not get this.
..emphasis on eternal being just that!! 
I shared the very scriptures that show us faith is a 'thing', not a doing. 'Believing' is what you do in response to the faith you have received that shows us the gospel is true. Surely you have used the phrase, 'the faith to believe'. That illustrates the difference between the two. Faith enables us to then believe. Most people reject faith, the testimony of the Holy Spirit, and choose to not believe in that which faith has shown them to be true.
Faith is simply knowing the gospel is true. Even the demons know the gospel is true! But it is believing in what you know to be true that saves. But so many people take false comfort in simply knowing the gospel is true but not actually trusting in it as evidenced by a change in their character. Correct doctrine never saved a soul. Only believing in what is correct saves.
Until you realize the difference between 'faith'--the knowing that something is true, and the 'believing' that one then must then do in response to knowing the gospel is true, you will not get this.
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P
You need to be open to the fact there are others ways to see things that are still true, nonetheless. You'll grow spiritually leaps and bounds when you can open up this way.
You can still be truly perfected forever, not requiring any further sacrifice to attain perfection, but still be able to lose that which makes it so you do not need any additional sacrifices for perfection.
Hebrews 7:25 shows us that Christ must continue in his ministry for you to be perfected without future need of perfection before the Father. So we know he isn't talking about being perfected forever in regard to not being able to later be not perfected forever. That's why you and I must continue to believe in the sacrifice that makes us forever perfect. We don't need another sacrifice made on our behalf to be forever perfect, legally speaking, before the Father in heaven. That's why we need to hang onto the one-time for all time sacrifice and Christ's Priesthood through our continued believing in that sacrifice.
You can still be truly perfected forever, not requiring any further sacrifice to attain perfection, but still be able to lose that which makes it so you do not need any additional sacrifices for perfection.
Hebrews 7:25 shows us that Christ must continue in his ministry for you to be perfected without future need of perfection before the Father. So we know he isn't talking about being perfected forever in regard to not being able to later be not perfected forever. That's why you and I must continue to believe in the sacrifice that makes us forever perfect. We don't need another sacrifice made on our behalf to be forever perfect, legally speaking, before the Father in heaven. That's why we need to hang onto the one-time for all time sacrifice and Christ's Priesthood through our continued believing in that sacrifice.
P
Christ's one-time for all time sacrifice makes it so you do not need to offer up a new sacrifice for new sin as you did in the old system of sacrifice. That's what it means to be perfect forever, legally speaking, before God in heaven by the sacrifice of Christ. It does not mean you can not lose the one-time perfection Christ's sacrifice gives no matter what. It means it never runs out of the power to make you perfect before God. That's why we must continue to trust in that sacrifice. We lose it's one-time for all time power to make perfect if we stop trusting in it.
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This is an example of were we agree.
We respond but God is saving us.
This is why I feel some desire division where there is none, and generate antagonism where
we have none.
Most honest people in ministry know people vary in faith and some drift away, some grow
brightly and fade, while others continue to grow and walk.
Now I want to encourage all who seek the Lord as brothers and sisters, but also recognise
the reality in some lives. I am not the judge, but Gods promises are to the faithful.
An eternal promise can be void if the conditions are broken. Believe and ..... is a conditional
statement on continuing belief, not a flash in the pan. We are talking here total life transformation
not a hobby, part time, if you can be bothered. God is good, if you see it.
We respond but God is saving us.
This is why I feel some desire division where there is none, and generate antagonism where
we have none.
Most honest people in ministry know people vary in faith and some drift away, some grow
brightly and fade, while others continue to grow and walk.
Now I want to encourage all who seek the Lord as brothers and sisters, but also recognise
the reality in some lives. I am not the judge, but Gods promises are to the faithful.
An eternal promise can be void if the conditions are broken. Believe and ..... is a conditional
statement on continuing belief, not a flash in the pan. We are talking here total life transformation
not a hobby, part time, if you can be bothered. God is good, if you see it.
Amen.
In all eternity, as created beings we will forever be learning, because we are not God.
Change is not a part of evil becoming good, but situations changing, needs adjusting,
roles growing. You can know one way of looking at something that is fine, then another..
Both are perfect, but involve perfecting experience. It would be truly boring if existence
is just a repeat.
In all eternity, as created beings we will forever be learning, because we are not God.
Change is not a part of evil becoming good, but situations changing, needs adjusting,
roles growing. You can know one way of looking at something that is fine, then another..
Both are perfect, but involve perfecting experience. It would be truly boring if existence
is just a repeat.
U
Our choice to believe upon Jesus as Saviour (personal) has eternal consequences/promises/benefits which are declared by God,
so I disagree with the part of what you are saying that we can fall away from salvation
In the same way, I tell you that there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous ones who do not need to repent.
Luke 15:7
Why would God loose any that come to Him accepting Jesus as Saviour?
Do you know how much God loves us...
His perfect plan has made it so that nothing can snatch us away not even ourselves because He has made the declaration that we are righteous by Christ within us
For us to lose salvation is for Christ to become unrighteous in us Not possible!!!
so I disagree with the part of what you are saying that we can fall away from salvation
In the same way, I tell you that there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous ones who do not need to repent.
Luke 15:7
Why would God loose any that come to Him accepting Jesus as Saviour?
Do you know how much God loves us...
His perfect plan has made it so that nothing can snatch us away not even ourselves because He has made the declaration that we are righteous by Christ within us
For us to lose salvation is for Christ to become unrighteous in us Not possible!!!
So you are describing your approach here, right.
I am happy to call you brother if stop condemning believers and showing such animosity
which comes from a root of bitterness. It is sinful and destroys your testimony.
The bondage some preach are rules without the cross and love. I know in part how destructive
this can be for some, but it is their hearts that is the problem not their theology.
Many here have talked of love but promoted such evil and condemnation it destroys the wonder
of the cross. It is the root of hurt and defence that I know well, but God is glorious and can bring
victory, if honesty and openness can be reached. Will you go there in faith with Christ?
It means giving up our understanding of Church, and following the word and love.
Oddly this empowers everything, but we must start the right way round, God bless you.
I am happy to call you brother if stop condemning believers and showing such animosity
which comes from a root of bitterness. It is sinful and destroys your testimony.
The bondage some preach are rules without the cross and love. I know in part how destructive
this can be for some, but it is their hearts that is the problem not their theology.
Many here have talked of love but promoted such evil and condemnation it destroys the wonder
of the cross. It is the root of hurt and defence that I know well, but God is glorious and can bring
victory, if honesty and openness can be reached. Will you go there in faith with Christ?
It means giving up our understanding of Church, and following the word and love.
Oddly this empowers everything, but we must start the right way round, God bless you.
Hi PJ,
I hope all is well with you.
Yes we will be forever learning and if we ever get to stage where we think we know it all then that is a very dangerous place to be in.
Isaiah 55:8-9
8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
The biggest problem I encounter with change is the fear of change itself.
As we say over here "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know"
Resistance to change can be a defence mechanism. Everything we believe in or walk in has to be undone, paradigms have to be shifted and replaced.
The mind has to be renewed.
Thank God he brings about change and works good in all things towards his children.
I hope all is well with you.
Yes we will be forever learning and if we ever get to stage where we think we know it all then that is a very dangerous place to be in.
Isaiah 55:8-9
8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
The biggest problem I encounter with change is the fear of change itself.
As we say over here "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know"
Resistance to change can be a defence mechanism. Everything we believe in or walk in has to be undone, paradigms have to be shifted and replaced.
The mind has to be renewed.
Thank God he brings about change and works good in all things towards his children.
A car subject to corruption by rust and other worldly" influence....cannot be compared to the uncorruptible, incorruptible...seed that is living and active in Spirit from heaven....otherworldly...can it?
NO!
Sealing is done when the King stamps His approval....and we begin to grow as one from heaven....not from earth. Spiritual.
Then we rule over soul and body...hence the active washing of the Word on our soul that needs saved...but Spirit rules.
But, we grow when we first sit. And we live from the inside out. Not as this world.
NO!
Sealing is done when the King stamps His approval....and we begin to grow as one from heaven....not from earth. Spiritual.
Then we rule over soul and body...hence the active washing of the Word on our soul that needs saved...but Spirit rules.
But, we grow when we first sit. And we live from the inside out. Not as this world.