Jesus Failed according to Dispensationalism

[unobtrusive]

According to dispensationalism Jesus failed to establish the kingdom due to Jewish rejection, if he returns a second time what's to stop them rejecting Him and the kingdom again?

I can't serve a fallible God. No hope there.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

You do realise that heckling does not constitute refutation?....

Here's an idea, show your support for Israel by joining the IDF and heckle some Palestinians....

this is sad

I'm almost sorry you have to continually stoop to these levels

I say almost, because this type of post simply proves that you do indeed attempt to make things personal in order to try and make the person who disagrees with you the one who has done so

we are on to you

 

[dcontroversal]

Don't shoot the messenger - I'm only relaying what dispensationalists claim - that Jesus failed to establish the kingdom because of Jesus unbelief and rejection of Christ.

Funny thing...I have never heard anyone say what you imply....lay off the juice before you post.......serious!

 

[dcontroversal]

Imagine that.....7seas and I have found common ground......the fact that the miniborgdog misses the mark on almost everything he posts.......

 

[7seasrekeyed]

They had the scriptures back in the 1st century and still rejected him:

John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

John 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

So what you are implying is once they see him whizzing out of the clouds someday they will suddenly wake up.

So now it's salvation by seeing and not faith then?

what constitutes saving faith to you locutus?

please support your response with scripture

 

[Locutus]

Imagine that.....7seas and I have found common ground......the fact that the miniborgdog misses the mark on almost everything he posts.......

Mr. Barker and Mrs. Heckles teaming up....hell must have frozen over...

Thanks for the thread bumps...bless yer loves...

 

[Enow]

They had the scriptures back in the 1st century and still rejected him:

John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

John 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

So what you are implying is once they see him whizzing out of the clouds someday they will suddenly wake up.

So now it's salvation by seeing and not faith then?

Well other than the 2 witnesses at Jerusalem, there are to be 144,000 witnesses converted of the Jews at or after the great tribulation. Seems like God the Father has chosen whom would believe in Him "afterwards" to serve as His witnesses.

Don't forget, during the millennium reign of Christ, new generations yet to be born are going to be able to see Him and after a thousand years, choose to either side with the devil or remain loyal to Him; hence not exactly saved by faith, when He is in their sights, but yet by applying faith in Him is how they are saved.

I believe that s why Jesus sad blessed are they that have not seen Him and yet believe for the time we are in is the only time saved believers can run that race by faith in Jesus Christ to be received by Him as a vessel unto honor in His House at the pre trib rapture event.

Those left behind and new believers can only be received as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

 

[Locutus]

Funny thing...I have never heard anyone say what you imply

It's fairly obvious that you don't have a clue what dispensationalism teaches.

....lay off the juice before you post.......serious!

I've heard this kind of comment many times before on other forums when the accuser is losing out badly....

Cheers......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

According to dispensationalism Jesus failed to establish the kingdom due to Jewish rejection, if he returns a second time what's to stop them rejecting Him and the kingdom again?

I am a dispensationalist. And I do not teach Jesus failed. The OT prophesied Isreal would reject and God would give it to a people who were not his won.

It also teaches Isreal will repent and be returned.

If the first prophesy came true, the second will also.

Jesus never failed, Prophesy came and will come true.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's what bothers me about dispensationialism. The Christ came to establish His kingdom in the 1st century, but His ppl rejected Him. So, to do 'something', He then flipped the script and established the ekklesia. The Gentiles turn out to be nothing more that an paranthesis, an intercalation, a blip on God's radar. Horrible doctrine.

Nope. Christ came in the first centrury to take care of the sin issue, Not to set up his kingdom,

The jews thought he came to set up his kingdom also. Thats why they rejected him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wait a minute. The Christ can't take it by force. That violates ppl's free will. He's too much the gentleman to ever do that.

Confused bro. Nothing in that persons posts said christ would take anything buy force.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And He did and does that with all His ppl. He can't overtake their free will, as that does not exist. But He does take us by force.

He did not take me by force. He took no one by force. He did not even take paul buy force. He asked paul a question, Why are you persecuting me, Paul still had to make a free choice decision to follow Christ, Or continue on his way (albeit blind)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When the dispies were trying to convince me and others of their error in school they said "You see, the prophets were looking over the mountain tops and their writings dealt with those things, but they didn't see what was going on down in the valleys, they only saw the peaks of the mountains. The church was down their in the valleys!"

You know, that way whatever a dispy says can just be made up stuff. Wait...never mind!

Here is an edifying post. Yep. This really supports your opinion. You can not counter them so just attack them? WHich is it.

How about sticking to facts it is not so judgmental. And doe4s not leave people divided, You hate when people slam Calvinism, yet here you are doing the very thing you hate to dispensation all people.

Sorry bro, but I have to call you out on this one.

 

[Locutus]

]I am a dispensationalist. And I do not teach Jesus failed. The OT prophesied Isreal would reject and God would give it to a people who were not his won.

It also teaches Isreal will repent and be returned.

If the first prophesy came true, the second will also.

Jesus never failed, Prophesy came and will come true[/COLOR].

Maybe you are only a 3 part dispensationalist - dispensationalism today is a mishmash of "doctrines"

Dwight Pentecost taught at Dallas Theological Seminary and is considered a leading voice for dispensationalism while you are just a squawk in the wilderness so when discussing dispensational "theology" I'm addressing the engineer not the oil rags.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is sad, End times/prophesy threads, and or how old the earth threads are just as heated than faith vs works threads, if not more.

and people wonder why people look down on christians. A bunch of hypocrites who can never get along.

 

[unobtrusive]

Each covenant is built on the previous. If the previous "all of a sudden" disappears, then the next covenant will fall and fail. Logic is what we were created with, and we ought to use it. Funny that when it comes to religion, what it takes to survive and succeed in this world somehow becomes a different mindset. To me, there seems to be a mental division as well as a religious division. Why do we do this in total opposition to what Paul told the church?

 

[Desertsrose]

I dunno - the dispensational position is that Christ came to setup an earthly theocratic kingdom for the Jews/Israel and Him to rule over them from Jerusalem. But because he was rejected by many He withdrew the kingdom offer only to re-offer it in the future and supposedly they will accept then.Now in regards to the thwarting of the Kingdom set up by Jewish rejection my question is why could they not reject him again and re-thwart the kingdom.One answer posed in the thread was he will do it by force.My position is that he did not fail because it was not God's will to setup an earthly based theocratic kingdom, but rather a spiritual kingdom of believers built on the foundation of the prophets and apostles.

Hi Locutus,


It's that remnant of Israel that will accept the Lord. Two-thirds end up dying in the battle of Armageddon. The 1/3 left are saved and are the "All Israel Will Be Saved."


I don't believe that Jesus intended to set up His kingdom on earth the first time so He didn't take it back to re-offer ruling the kingdom on earth in the future. The prophecies were always set in stone that God would set up His earthly kingdom during the millennium.

 

[dcontroversal]

It's fairly obvious that you don't have a clue what dispensationalism teaches.



I've heard this kind of comment many times before on other forums when the accuser is losing out badly....

Cheers......

A. Your first statement applies unto yourself concerning about 90% of what I have seen you post
B. Means nothing but good advice....lay of the juice before you post.

 

[Locutus]

Like I said to yer new girlfiend heckling does not constitute a valid refutation.

It does, however, maintain your status as the forum mouth piece..

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I dunno - the dispensational position is that Christ came to setup an earthly theocratic kingdom for the Jews/Israel and Him to rule over them from Jerusalem. But because he was rejected by many He withdrew the kingdom offer only to re-offer it in the future and supposedly they will accept then.

Now in regards to the thwarting of the Kingdom set up by Jewish rejection my question is why could they not reject him again and re-thwart the kingdom.

One answer posed in the thread was he will do it by force.

My position is that he did not fail because it was not God's will to setup an earthly based theocratic kingdom, but rather a spiritual kingdom of believers built on the foundation of the prophets and apostles.

no

that is not the dispensationalitst position

you talk about God and Jesus like they are a couple of guys who kept changing their minds when things didn't go as expected