Naming days like the pagans. Why do we do that?

[unobtrusive]

In our time, even the Jewish calendar, which has been in continuous use since the Exodus, is superimposed on the Gregorian calendar. Not only that; but with rare exceptions Jewish calendars use the post-exilic names of several months; so that the months are now named for Babylonian idols. Abib is called Nissan and Ethanim is called Tishri, among others.

You are fighting a loosing battle!

If you are referring to the "Hillel II," that was accepted in the 4th century, I would have to say that calendar is incorrect.

Please read this, it's short, and you will understand better what I'm referring to. Thanks brother.

https://www.thecalendarandthecovenant.com/the-feasts-of-the-jews

 

[unobtrusive]

200 years ago our government was much more open to the influence of Biblical precepts. Even then I doubt that you could have persuaded anyone to adopt a lunar/solar calendar. In our time our government is increasingly hostile to Biblical precepts.

You are not likely to change the way we reckon time so why not crusade for something that can be accomplished?

At this point, it would be totally vain to think anyone could change it to God's true way that was established in the beginning. What I am endorsing is that it is wise to understand God's times and seasons, and why He created them for us. The more we do that, the better equipped we will be for the millennial reign of Christ. After all, a "convocation" is termed a rehearsal, along with other definitions that accompany it. Moons and months are given so we know when to convocate with others in His presence. This is what needs to be accomplished today...our understanding of HIS times and seasons.

 

[MarcR]

If you are referring to the "Hillel II," that was accepted in the 4th century, I would have to say that calendar is incorrect.

Please read this, it's short, and you will understand better what I'm referring to. Thanks brother.

https://www.thecalendarandthecovenant.com/the-feasts-of-the-jews

As I said on another thread, The Jewish calendar has been in continuous use since the Exodus with 2 minor well documented adjustments. Though not mentioned in that post, the Hillel adjustment was one of the 2. The other was done by the Masorites around the 6th century AD while they were developing the pointed text that is almost universally accepted as a faithful copy.

 

[IamWhoIam]

In our time, even the Jewish calendar, which has been in continuous use since the Exodus, is superimposed on the Gregorian calendar. Not only that; but with rare exceptions Jewish calendars use the post-exilic names of several months; so that the months are now named for Babylonian idols. Abib is called Nissan and Ethanim is called Tishri, among others.

You are fighting a loosing battle!

That is quite interesting, why in the scripture the month of Abib was changed to Nisan is a head scratcher and the 4th and 5th months are not even mentioned in the bible so these have been named by another sourse or something, as well as the 13th month not mentioned in scripture, though the 13th month is added every few years to bring the lunar and solar cycles back together again.

 

[unobtrusive]

As I said on another thread, The Jewish calendar has been in continuous use since the Exodus with 2 minor well documented adjustments. Though not mentioned in that post, the Hillel adjustment was one of the 2. The other was done by the Masorites around the 6th century AD while they were developing the pointed text that is almost universally accepted as a faithful copy.

The 6th century is in accordance with the Julian calendar. We know that Passover is to be killed on the 14th, and completely eaten before dawn on the 15th. The preparation day was when Jesus and the disciples ate the Passover. The way I understand it is that Passover is to be completely eaten when it's dark, never during daylight hours.

Rhetorically... Did the Pharisees begin eating the seder meal on "the day of preparation" as did Jesus and the disciples, and was their Passover meal completely over before the dawning of the 15th day according to Exodus 12?

Hillel II reportedly published the Jewish calendar in 359 AD. I as understand, it involved astronomy and solar cycles rather than moon phases only, as originally created for these occasions.

From what I have read, the Jewish calendar ceased to be trustworthy after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD; and before the calendar of Hillel II time, the Jews could only have celebrated the Passover AFTER the vernal equinox, incorporating the sun into the equation of moon phases, rather than vegetation and moon phases as originally designed for times and seasons that began the new year.

This is good because it causes me to study deeper. When I find out more, I will post it.

 

[IamWhoIam]

The 6th century is in accordance with the Julian calendar. We know that Passover is to be killed on the 14th, and completely eaten before dawn on the 15th. The preparation day was when Jesus and the disciples ate the Passover. The way I understand it is that Passover is to be completely eaten when it's dark, never during daylight hours.

Rhetorically... Did the Pharisees begin eating the seder meal on "the day of preparation" as did Jesus and the disciples, and was their Passover meal completely over before the dawning of the 15th day according to Exodus 12?

Hillel II reportedly published the Jewish calendar in 359 AD. I as understand, it involved astronomy and solar cycles rather than moon phases only, as originally created for these occasions.

From what I have read, the Jewish calendar ceased to be trustworthy after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD; and before the calendar of Hillel II time, the Jews could only have celebrated the Passover AFTER the vernal equinox, incorporating the sun into the equation of moon phases, rather than vegetation and moon phases as originally designed for times and seasons that began the new year.

This is good because it causes me to study deeper. When I find out more, I will post it.

Good post, did the Pharisees eat on the day of preparation seems they may have, at least that is what it appears from this verse. though probably not at the same time as Jesus and the deciples,

John 18:28
Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.

 

[unobtrusive]

That is quite interesting, why in the scripture the month of Abib was changed to Nisan is a head scratcher and the 4th and 5th months are not even mentioned in the bible so these have been named by another sourse or something, as well as the 13th month not mentioned in scripture, though the 13th month is added every few years to bring the lunar and solar cycles back together again.

According to the "civil calendar" of the Jews, the seventh month is equivalent to Nisan, that is actually 6 months off from the Biblical calendar. The name Abib, (actually the first month) means the month of "green ears."

I understand that the name Nisan could be of either Assyrian, or Babylonian origin (handed down to the Persians), also being the first month of the year. We can read that name in the book of Esther who was married to the Persian king Ahasuerus, the Artaxerxes (king) of Persia.

You are correct about the 13th month named Adar II. A leap year, according to the Jewish calendar has 2 Adars.

 

[unobtrusive]

Good post, did the Pharisees eat on the day of preparation seems they may have, at least that is what it appears from this verse. though probably not at the same time as Jesus and the deciples,

John 18:28
Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.

This is the day before the "high day." According to tradition, did the Pharisees eat the Passover the next day, or did they eat it that night? Just wondering. It is true however, that the Passover was to be totally gone (burning the left overs) before the sun rose on the 15th. If the Pharisees celebrated Passover on the high day during daylight hours, their calendar is one day off during that time.

I cannot find in the Bible when they did. Maybe you know. If we knew, then we could understand whether they were abiding correctly or not. It's obvious to me that they were actually following suit with the Passover, but they didn't have any idea that the Passover was Jesus. "Forgive them for they know not what they do." They were preparing the real Passover before they prepared their own Passover.

 

[IamWhoIam]

According to the "civil calendar" of the Jews, the seventh month is equivalent to Nisan, that is actually 6 months off from the Biblical calendar. The name Abib, (actually the first month) means the month of "green ears."

I understand that the name Nisan could be of either Assyrian, or Babylonian origin (handed down to the Persians), also being the first month of the year. We can read that name in the book of Esther who was married to the Persian king Ahasuerus, the Artaxerxes (king) of Persia.

You are correct about the 13th month named Adar II. A leap year, according to the Jewish calendar has 2 Adars.

Actually in the book of Esher Nisan is the first month,

Esther 3:7 – “In the first month, that is, the month Nisan, in the twelfth year of king Ahasuerus, they cast Pur, that is, the lot, before Haman from day to day, and from month to month, to the twelfth month, that is, the month Adar."

I have a question what exactly is a civil calander?, have you look into what a civil calander is that similar to say a secular calander?

 

[IamWhoIam]

This is the day before the "high day." According to tradition, did the Pharisees eat the Passover the next day, or did they eat it that night? Just wondering. It is true however, that the Passover was to be totally gone (burning the left overs) before the sun rose on the 15th. If the Pharisees celebrated Passover on the high day during daylight hours, their calendar is one day off during that time.

I cannot find in the Bible when they did. Maybe you know. If we knew, then we could understand whether they were abiding correctly or not. It's obvious to me that they were actually following suit with the Passover, but they didn't have any idea that the Passover was Jesus. "Forgive them for they know not what they do." They were preparing the real Passover before they prepared their own Passover.

Since you have shown me, that the feast of unleavend bread starts on the beginning of the 15th after 6pm, scripture doesn't quite say directly the Pharisees ate the Passover meal on the 14th.

though similar to how you showed me that the feast of unleavened bread as mentioned in exodus as the evening of the 14th begins the feast of unleavened bread but really that verse is saying the beginning of the 15th at 6pm. I would assume the Pharisees ate during the day light hours on the 14th. probably right after handing Jesus over to Pilate they went away and ate the Passover while Pilate sent Jesus to Herod then Herod sent Jesus back to Pilate and then Pilate summoned the Pharisees again.

 

[unobtrusive]

Actually in the book of Esher Nisan is the first month,

Esther 3:7 – “In the first month, that is, the month Nisan, in the twelfth year of king Ahasuerus, they cast Pur, that is, the lot, before Haman from day to day, and from month to month, to the twelfth month, that is, the month Adar."

I have a question what exactly is a civil calander?, have you look into what a civil calander is that similar to say a secular calander?

You are right about the book of Esther. The Jewish civil calendar is of Babylonian origin.

Although the history of its development is not clear, the Israelites apparently adopted elements of marking time from both the ancient Canaanites and the Babylonians. Four months are known in the biblical text by older Canaanite names, while seven are mentioned in forms derived from Babylon. There are also preserved two New Years’ dates, one at the Spring equinox in the month of Nisan/Abib (Exod 12:1) and one at the Fall equinox in the month of Tishri/Ethanim.

"And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end." (Exodus 34:22). The feast of ingathering is the "feast of Tabernacles" (during the seventh month), that will be observed during the millennial reign of Christ Jesus on this earth. The feast of weeks (beginning right after the Feast of Unleavened Bread), end with the giving of the law and the Spirit, the 50th day... Firstfruits. You probably already know this. If so, I apologize for being superfluous.

"And all the men of Israel assembled themselves unto king Solomon at the feast in the month Ethanim, which is the seventh month. (1 Kings 8:2 )

From what I see "Tishri" means "beginning," according to Babylonian semantics, but the word doesn't show up in scripture. It is of Babylonian origin, confirming the tradition of the Jewish "civil calendar."

Some have suggested that this represents both a civil and a religious calendar, with the civil calendar adopted from the Babylonians during the exile and the religious calendar ordered around the events of the exodus. This is due to the blending of elements of both lunar and solar time keeping.

 

[unobtrusive]

Since you have shown me, that the feast of unleavend bread starts on the beginning of the 15th after 6pm, scripture doesn't quite say directly the Pharisees ate the Passover meal on the 14th.

though similar to how you showed me that the feast of unleavened bread as mentioned in exodus as the evening of the 14th begins the feast of unleavened bread but really that verse is saying the beginning of the 15th at 6pm. I would assume the Pharisees ate during the day light hours on the 14th. probably right after handing Jesus over to Pilate they went away and ate the Passover while Pilate sent Jesus to Herod then Herod sent Jesus back to Pilate and then Pilate summoned the Pharisees again.

I can understand what you are saying, but I have a different thought. Jesus was crucified in the morning, after the conviction was totally done. The Pharisees derided Christ while he hung, so in my estimation, they hadn’t started preparing for their own Passover. It could very well be that they prepared and ate the Passover at the right time, but they were sure busy with other things outside of butchering a lamb during the real Passover sacrifice.

Oh ya. The "Feast of Unleavened Bread begins at evening of the 14th which is the beginning of the 15th, so Passover is on the 14th, and the feast begins on the 15th, starting at sundown of the 14th.

 

[IamWhoIam]

I can understand what you are saying, but I have a different thought. Jesus was crucified in the morning, after the conviction was totally done. The Pharisees derided Christ while he hung, so in my estimation, they hadn’t started preparing for their own Passover. It could very well be that they prepared and ate the Passover at the right time, but they were sure busy with other things outside of butchering a lamb during the real Passover sacrifice.

Oh ya. The "Feast of Unleavened Bread begins at evening of the 14th which is the beginning of the 15th, so Passover is on the 14th, and the feast begins on the 15th, starting at sundown of the 14th.

Yes indeed and a good observation, surely neither of us can prove with scripture when the Pharisees ate the Passover. But since they were all about traditions, I'd assume they ate the Passover some time during to 14th.

 

[unobtrusive]

The main point is that the Gregorian calendar is not a Biblical calendar. And this fulfils the prophecy of Daniel.
This is Satan...
"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time." (Daniel 7:25)

Our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Lord of all times and seasons. It's His call, and ONLY His call.

This is our Creator...
"And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:" ( Daniel 2:21)

 

[IamWhoIam]

The main point is that the Gregorian calendar is not a Biblical calendar. And this fulfils the prophecy of Daniel.
This is Satan...
"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time." (Daniel 7:25)

Our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Lord of all times and seasons. It's His call, and ONLY His call.

This is our Creator...
"And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:" ( Daniel 2:21)

It is of value to be wise as serpents, somethings like the names of the days can have a impact on the conscious weak, or people who have never heard of these days being from pagan origins. could become quite afraid about it or actually start to idol these names.

the thread is quite interesting though we don't know who is reading it, we you are strong enough to understand the reasons why they came about and are being used today, but these names are pretty much set in stone in this world.

Here's some scripture mentioned just what I'm saying about things of idols.


1 Corinthians 8English Standard Version (ESV)

Food Offered to Idols

8 Now concerning food offered to idols: we know that “all of us possess knowledge.” This “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up.2 If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. 3 But if anyone loves God, he is known by God.
4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” 5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
7 However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do.9 But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged,if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols?11 And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died.12 Thus, sinning against your brothersand wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

 

[oldethennew]

'left over-carried over pagan-influence???