We choose Jesus or Jesus choose us

[Jackson123]

Bingo!!

You seem to fail to recognize the true state the lost are in. As Paul wrote And you were dead in your trespasses and sins.[Ephesians 2:1] The Greek word used for 'dead' is nekros and it means...

3498 nekrós (an adjective, derived from nekys, "a corpse, a dead body") – dead; literally, "what lacks life"; dead; (figuratively) not able to respond to impulses, or perform functions ("unable, ineffective, dead, powerless," L & N, 1, 74.28); unresponsive to life-giving influences (opportunities); inoperative to the things of God.
3498 /nekrós ("corpse-like") is used as a noun in certain contexts ("the dead"), especially when accompanied by the Greek definite article. The phrase, ek nekron ("from the dead"), lacks the Greek article to give the sense "from what is of death."

This is what God has to overcome in these ppl who are spiritually dead before they can even to begin to seek Him. The lost man is one who is devoid of God's Spirit and his heart hates Him, is His enemy. That's why we can read For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.[Romans 8:5-8] Here are the two types of ppl in the world, the lost and the saved, the unregenerate and the regenerate. Those who are lost, those who unregenerate, have minds that are hostile towards God, its not subject to His laws, it is not able to submit itself to God and His laws, and they are in the flesh as lost, unregenerate ppl, and can not please Him. Remember, those who love Him have been(already done) born of Him.[1 John 4:7] The birth via the Spirit is what precludes any positive response for the lost person.



Because He deemed it necessary to choose a ppl to give to His Son to redeem from amongst the lost. In this election, He chose them, not because they were any less dead, their hearts not as hard as those who chose to leave in their fallen state, not because He look through the corridors of time to see who would have faith and choose them. He chose them because He is God, and as the Potter, He has rights to His clay.

seem to me he force Lazarus but He never say I Will force some to believe in Me

In the bible God say If you Eat the fruit of knowledge you Will die, Adam finally die physically, but It does not mean he not able to response or hear anything immidiately. He still able to answere when God talk to him.

That happen to us, or non believer, Faith come from hearin the word of God, He command us to preach the gospel to unbeliever

if unbeliever not able to response because they death, why God command us to talk to them. Un believer know that steal is not good, most of them know that killing is not good, they are diyeng but If you preach them with the word and accept, they Will live.

Jesus is love and just, I do not believe He only choose to force some to believe and Deny AC es other to believe so they go to Hell. If so in the last judgement when Jesus say to the unsave, depart from me because you not love the poor, they Will say, It your fault, you not force me to believe in You, I was die and can not response what ever you instruction

 

[followjesus]

Wich one is true, we choose Jesus or Jesus choose us?

The thief choose Jesus or Jesus choose the thief?

God chose us, in order that we choose Christ Jesus and Live.

 

[Jackson123]

So what is it to be chosen? We chose to believe or we chose Jesus? I just don’t know because ‘chose’ chosen refers not to salvation. The thief in the cross simply “believes” in Jesus. Jesus did not choose/chosen him for salvation, Christ responded only on the basis of the thief’s belief on him.

God bless

I believe when God create Adam and Eve, He choose them and they offspring to be resident of Eden If they obey His command
Not to Eat the fruit of knowledge. Now He choose whosoever believe in Him to save.

It state in John 3:16. For God so love the world, to me It is mean God love all, but only save whosoever believe.

 

[Jackson123]

And this has nothing to do with what you are purporting. You guys seem to think we haven't read this verse before. SMH

To me John 3:16 mean God love the world, not some and hate some so he force some to heaven and some to hell without reason.
God not enjoy to see human suffer in hell, because of love, but If they refuse to believe, Sadly He put them to hell.

 

[SovereignGrace]

seem to me he force Lazarus but He never say I Will force some to believe in Me

But you're missing the point my Brother. Ppl who are lost are spiritually dead and can not believe, because they hate God, have a heart that is at variance with Him. He must FIRST overcome this obstacle and regenerate them, and in this regeneration, He gives them a new heart that loves Him. Those who love God have been born(already completed action) of Him.[1 John 4:7]

In the bible God say If you Eat the fruit of knowledge you Will die, Adam finally die physically, but It does not mean he not able to response or hear anything immidiately. He still able to answere when God talk to him.

God spoke to Satan in the book of Job, too. God is the only One who can speak to the dead and they hear. When we speak to the spiritually dead, unless God quickens them to life, our words just 'wooooosh' by them.

That happen to us, or non believer, Faith come from hearin the word of God, He command us to preach the gospel to unbeliever.

Faith comes from hearing(an external Source and not innate in man) the preaching of the gospel of the Christ. The very moment a person has faith, they are saved. Abraham believed God and it was credited to him for righteousness. The very moment he believed, he was declared righteous before God. The lost can not believe because they are a spiritually dead corpse.

if unbeliever not able to response because they death, why God command us to talk to them. Un believer know that steal is not good, most of them know that killing is not good, they are diyeng but If you preach them with the word and accept, they Will live.

God uses the words we speak, the gospel of the Christ, to save whoever He wills to be saved.

Jesus is love and just, I do not believe He only choose to force some to believe and Deny AC es other to believe so they go to Hell. If so in the last judgement when Jesus say to the unsave, depart from me because you not love the poor, they Will say, It your fault, you not force me to believe in You, I was die and can not response what ever you instruction

And you're going on pure emotionialism here, my Brother. God does not force any to be saved, but He does raise the dead to life and they then react accordingly.

 

[Jackson123]

But the heart is The heart is more deceitful than all else; And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?[Jeremiah 17:9] This deceitful heart that is desperately sick that no one can understand, will not invite Him in. That's why He must take this sick, deceitful heart out and give them a new heart, a heart of flesh, a heart of love.[Ezekiel 11:19 & 36:26]

Faith come from hearing, it mean God tell us that If one hear information about how to save, there is a chance to make one to believe, He is not a liar. Hearing can make one to believe.

 

[SovereignGrace]

To me John 3:16 mean God love the world, not some and hate some so he force some to heaven and some to hell without reason.
God not enjoy to see human suffer in hell, because of love, but If they refuse to believe, Sadly He put them to hell.

You're cherry-picking John 3:16. In this same chapter we read "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”[John 3:36] Yes, God loves the world, but His wrath abides the disobedient ones. So, He loves them that His wrath abides upon? And as for hate, read up on Romans 9. There are objects of God's wrath, so by your logic, God loves those He has wrath for. That's a messed up theology you have here.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Faith come from hearing, it mean God tell us that If one hear information about how to save, there is a chance to make one to believe, He is not a liar. Hearing can make one to believe.

Yet, the dead can not hear. How many more times do I need to state this? Go to a funeral home and tell that corpse to get up and see what type of response you get.

Ppl are dead spiritually, the same way the dead are physically. When we talk to the lost, we are talking to a pile of dead bones. No amount of talking to them will help them UNLESS God moves upon them, bringing them to life first. They can then truly hear and believe what we're saying to them.

 

[Jackson123]

So, the Christ's death, burial, and resurrection is not enough> Srsly? There's something we MUST do? There's something we add to the gospel? That's exactly what you're doing here.

John 3:16 say whosoever believe

to me It mean require to believe

do you believe that a man No need to believe to be save because of Christ death. If so than every body save

 

[SovereignGrace]

John 3:16 say whosoever believe

And?? So what? I agree with this too. You must believe we are Calvinists who haven't read this verse before...like its caught us off-guard or something.

to me It mean require to believe

I agree. However, you're placing the emphasis upon man to do something, and then God does something. That's not the way it works. God acts first, and then man reacts.

do you believe that a man No need to believe to be save because of Christ death. If so than every body save

If a spiritually dead corpse can believe, then I'd agree with you. But they can't.

 

[Jackson123]

It has to be both because while he chooses us he also will not force us to accept him even if it hurts his heart. It's the same as marriage the man can ask the women to marry him but she also has to accept him and say yes. Many are called but few are chosen but they are not chosen only because they refused, love does not force itself on anyone

Yep I agree. God love the world like John 3:16 say, He not hate some and Deny acces to some, force some to not believe. He love all but for salvation require to believe

 

[followjesus]

You're cherry-picking John 3:16. In this same chapter we read "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”[John 3:36] Yes, God loves the world, but His wrath abides the disobedient ones. So, He loves them that His wrath abides upon? And as for hate, read up on Romans 9. There are objects of God's wrath, so by your logic, God loves those He has wrath for. That's a messed up theology you have here.

Not id belief is in the right Word. if you believe what Jesus said His testimony of the Father......you will obey because you believe.

if someone i trust tells me " i buried a million dollars in your front yard, if i believe the person, my action is automatic of course i will go dig it up. action comes from Belief in any area of Life. but if someone i dont trust or believe tells me theres a million in my yard...if i dont believe it, i am not Going to waste my time digging. True Belief is the source of our actions. its How the Gospel works in us to change us.

for instance I believe Jesus Christ and His Word, so if i am say a person who is greedy and refuses to share with others who need,,,,and I see Jesus saying " care for the poor among you, give to the needy" and i believe that in truth because my Faith is in the One who said it, i will change through that faith and begin acting from faith.


Faith and actions go together to see what One really believes look at thier consistant actions....

 

[Jackson123]

Will God be unjust when He proclaims Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’?[Matthew 7:22,23]

no He set up the rule and post It in the bible, WHO do the Will of the Father Will be save. Tha group in Matt 7 is not do the Will of the Father, so they deserve hell. God is always just and live.

 

[Jackson123]

God chose us, in order that we choose Christ Jesus and Live.

Yep, God invite whosoever, every body to believe in Him, because God love every body, and up to us to accept His invitation or not

 

[followjesus]

John 3:16 say whosoever believe

to me It mean require to believe

do you believe that a man No need to believe to be save because of Christ death. If so than every body save

the thing is, jesus never said Believe in My Death, He said Believe in me, Believe My Word. if we believe what Jesus said that will save us because we will begin to obey Him, because we really do believe Him. Belief saves us, because Belief comes out in what we do, How we conduct Our selves, so when a believer sees something Like this

matthew 7 niv "“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.

26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”


we have to believe jesus died and rose again yes, but He is saying Here that we need to believe His words and put them into practice......Believing does save us, but we have to believe what the Lord said to believe.

 

[followjesus]

Yep, God invite whosoever, every body to believe in Him, because God love every body, and up to us to accept His invitation or not

amen to that God bless

 

[Jackson123]

1 But you're missing the point my Brother. Ppl who are lost are spiritually dead and can not believe, because they hate God, have a heart that is at variance with Him. He must FIRST overcome this obstacle and regenerate them, and in this regeneration, He gives them a new heart that loves Him. Those who love God have been born(already completed action) of Him.[1 John 4:7]



2 God spoke to Satan in the book of Job, too. God is the only One who can speak to the dead and they hear. When we speak to the spiritually dead, unless God quickens them to life, our words just 'wooooosh' by them.



3 Faith comes from hearing(an external Source and not innate in man) the preaching of the gospel of the Christ. The very moment a person has faith, they are saved. Abraham believed God and it was credited to him for righteousness. The very moment he believed, he was declared righteous before God. The lost can not believe because they are a spiritually dead corpse.



4 God uses the words we speak, the gospel of the Christ, to save whoever He wills to be saved.



5 And you're going on pure emotionialism here, my Brother. God does not force any to be saved, but He does raise the dead to life and they then react accordingly.

1. Spiritual death not mean can not hear anything. I know muslim, he is honest, he know that Cheating is sin,but he not save because he not accept to believe Jesus, spiritual death doesn't mean totally broken to the point not able to know that killing is sin. Some unsave do but not all unsave believe killing is sin. They free to choose believe in Him or not. Faith come from hearing

2. Can you provide with a verse to back up your point?

3. Yep the very momentum he obey TI believe they save, and If they live after save For some time they Will produce fruit

4. God use the word we speak to save whosoever believe in Jesus.

5. WHOsoever believe in Him Will be save, free from hell.

 

[Jackson123]

You're cherry-picking John 3:16. In this same chapter we read "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”[John 3:36] Yes, God loves the world, but His wrath abides the disobedient ones. So, He loves them that His wrath abides upon? And as for hate, read up on Romans 9. There are objects of God's wrath, so by your logic, God loves those He has wrath for. That's a messed up theology you have here.

Bible say God is love, If he wrath It is because of just. He hate sin but love sinner.

 

[Jackson123]

Yet, the dead can not hear. How many more times do I need to state this? Go to a funeral home and tell that corpse to get up and see what type of response you get.

Ppl are dead spiritually, the same way the dead are physically. When we talk to the lost, we are talking to a pile of dead bones. No amount of talking to them will help them UNLESS God moves upon them, bringing them to life first. They can then truly hear and believe what we're saying to them.

It is your oppinion brother, If you read genesis, Adam and eve can hear what God say after sin

 

[Jackson123]

And?? So what? I agree with this too. You must believe we are Calvinists who haven't read this verse before...like its caught us off-guard or something.



I agree. However, you're placing the emphasis upon man to do something, and then God does something. That's not the way it works. God acts first, and then man reacts.



If a spiritually dead corpse can believe, then I'd agree with you. But they can't.

To me unbeliever able to hear what I tell them, than up to them to choose to accept or not.