We choose Jesus or Jesus choose us

[SovereignGrace]

I was born not of my Will. But It doesn't mean salvation by force. Do you believe salvation by force?

<<<<<SIGH!!!!>>>>>

Let me attempt this once more.

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins.[Ephesians 2:1] The Greek word used for 'dead' is nekros which means literally 'a dead corpse'. Now, when we were lost, we were nekros is trespasses and sins. We were a 'literally dead corpse' inside. The dead can not exercise faith and repentance, two things necessary for salvation. No matter how much one may try, they can not do this. It takes someone outside of themselves to do this for them. In steps God who moves unilaterally and gives them the new birth, the birth from above, regeneration, the Greek word used is anothen and it means from above, from a higher place, of things which come from heaven or God, anew, over again. None of these things can they do of their own accord.

While we were nekros we can read even when we were deadnekros in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.[Ephesians 2:5,6] While we were dead, He made us alive. It was God who made us alive in Christ, and we exercised faith and repentance and were saved. This happens all at the same time. God quickens us, we exercise faith & repentance and are saved at the exact same time. All at the workings of God mighty regenerative power.

 

[trofimus]

Not forcing, can you refused?

I believe one can refuse to accept God's will and refuse to believe. But only when they are not gifted by new heart, new will, new eyes etc.

Who is gifted by such new things, will not refuse, ever. Its a grace for grace, as Paul says. We are given grace to see and act rightly and then we are giving grace for this first grace.

I admit these are not very easy topics, maybe I can recommend you some books by Augustin, Leibniz etc if you are interested.

 

[Jackson123]

Thats why God will save all His children. But not all people are His children.

so Some unsave is His children? What is the characteristic of His unsaved children?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Thats why God will save all His children. But not all people are His children.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!! Marvelous!!!

 

[trofimus]

so Some unsave is His children? What is the characteristic of His unsaved children?

I do not understand your question. Do you mean that some unbelievers are not yet revealed to be His children?

 

[trofimus]

Who is gifted by such new things, will not refuse, ever. Its a grace for grace, as Paul says. We are given grace to see and act rightly and then we are giving grace for this first grace.

Correction:
We are given grace to see and act rightly and then we are given [another] grace for this first grace.

 

[Jackson123]

I believe one can refuse to accept God's will and refuse to believe. But only when they are not gifted by new heart, new will, new eyes etc.

Who is gifted by such new things, will not refuse, ever. Its a grace for grace, as Paul says. We are given grace to see and act rightly and then we are giving grace for this first grace.

I admit these are not very easy topics, maybe I can recommend you some books by Augustin, Leibniz etc if you are interested.

I do not understand If Loving God that know, people that do not believe Will burn in hell and not gift a gift of believe to some.


How cruel is a man that have a money and know his friend dying of hungered and Not buy him a food.

God is love brother

 

[trofimus]

I do not understand If Loving God that know, people that do not believe Will burn in hell and not gift a gift of believe to some.


How cruel is a man that have a money and know his friend dying of hungered and Not buy him a food.

God is love brother

God is love, but love is not God, brother.

God is also wise, Maker of all things, creating marvelous art.

He saved as many people as possible.

But His wisdom and other attributes demand that some of His tools must be destroyed and demonstrated as such.

If you paint a grand picture of universe, some places must be dark. If you compose a wonderful musical symphony, some tones must be low.

 

[Jackson123]

<<<<<SIGH!!!!>>>>>

Let me attempt this once more.

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins.[Ephesians 2:1] The Greek word used for 'dead' is nekros which means literally 'a dead corpse'. Now, when we were lost, we were nekros is trespasses and sins. We were a 'literally dead corpse' inside. The dead can not exercise faith and repentance, two things necessary for salvation. No matter how much one may try, they can not do this. It takes someone outside of themselves to do this for them. In steps God who moves unilaterally and gives them the new birth, the birth from above, regeneration, the Greek word used is anothen and it means from above, from a higher place, of things which come from heaven or God, anew, over again. None of these things can they do of their own accord.

While we were nekros we can read even when we were deadnekros in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.[Ephesians 2:5,6] While we were dead, He made us alive. It was God who made us alive in Christ, and we exercised faith and repentance and were saved. This happens all at the same time. God quickens us, we exercise faith & repentance and are saved at the exact same time. All at the workings of God mighty regenerative power.

the fact is we able to read and hear what people say or write. In genesis after Adam commit sin, he still able to hear God voice and response

genesis 3

9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So you believe Holy Spirit couse some people believe and go to heaven and the same Holy spirit couse some people ignore and not believe so They go to hell?

If you came upon a man who had just had a heart attack and ppl were giving him CPR, would you tell them to back off and not violate that man's free will, or pray for God to bless their efforts and bring him back to life?

To remain true to your belief system, if you came upon a man who had just had a massive heart attack, you wouldn't do CPR, because that would violate his will and force him to come back to life. You would stand there and tell him "Get up! You can live again if you hear these words of mine!" Then three days later he'd be buried in a cemetery.

 

[fredoheaven]

I believe when God create Adam and Eve, He choose them and they offspring to be resident of Eden If they obey His command
Not to Eat the fruit of knowledge. Now He choose whosoever believe in Him to save.

It state in John 3:16. For God so love the world, to me It is mean God love all, but only save whosoever believe.

HI Jackson,

God created them, as simply what the Bible says. God didn’t choose them to bear offspring and reside in the Garden of Eden. When God created them, God already knew of the pro creation.
Obedience to God is not the means why God placed them at the Garden of Eden. It is the willful act of God to place them there to begin with. Disobedience to the command of God by eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil displeased God and resulted to their expulsion.

Now, I am getting your point about free will that if they have chosen to obey God, means that they were still right there until today. Your will or God’s will? Either your’s or God’s and were created for God’s yet God created us in his own image which include having a “will”.

Yes I believe in John 3:16 that “whosoever will” believe will be saved. God loves us all but only those who respond to the Gospel through faith will be saved. Romans 10 give us the sequential event leading to the belief of the truth or the Gospel.

Yet, it’s still true, it’s God’s will not our will that saves us.

God bless

 

[SovereignGrace]

the fact is we able to read and hear what people say or write. In genesis after Adam commit sin, he still able to hear God voice and response

genesis 3

9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

Yes, the dead hear God's voice, but they can't hear another human's voice. Just like with Lazarus. Others could have rolled the stone away and yelled for 10 days to come forth, but to no avail. God spoke to him and he heard, responded and came forth.

 

[Jackson123]

God is love, but love is not God, brother.

God is also wise, Maker of all things, creating marvelous art.

He saved as many people as possible.

But His wisdom and other attributes demand that some His tools must be destroyed and demonstrated as wicked.

If you paint a grand picture of universe, some places must be dark. If you compose a wonderful musical symphony, some tones must be low.

That what I do not agree brother, what I believe is God love every body, but God set up a standart, only WHO believe in Him Will be save. God is just, to give the gift of believe for some and not other is not just.

 

[Jackson123]

Yes, the dead hear God's voice, but they can't hear another human's voice. Just like with Lazarus. Others could have rolled the stone away and yelled for 10 days to come forth, but to no avail. God spoke to him and he heard, responded and came forth.

but the spiritual dead like muslim hear my voice when I tell him about Jesus.

 

[SovereignGrace]

That what I do not agree brother, what I believe is God love every body, but God set up a standart, only WHO believe in Him Will be save. God is just, to give the gift of believe for some and not other is not just.

And you're falt out denying the God of the bible. He hates ppl and I gave you ample verses to support it. You just keep rejecting what the bible clearly teaches about God hating ppl.

 

[trofimus]

God is just, to give the gift of believe for some and not other is not just.

God is not only just. God is not only love. All His actions are composed of all His attributes.

You are not only father. You are not only man. You are not only worker in the field you work in. You are not only Christian. All your actions are composed of everything you are.

His character lead Him to sacrifice His only Son to save as many people as possible, billions. By an ("unjust" and loving) gift of faith.

We are too small to see everything in the context of the Universe and of many dimensions above us (so called "spiritual ones"). We will see better why it is in this way after we will be taken home.

 

[SovereignGrace]

but the spiritual dead like muslim hear my voice when I tell him about Jesus.

Yes they do. But those words just 'wooooosh' by them. Unless God uses those words of the gospel you speak to them and quicken them, they won't accept them my Brother.

 

[Jackson123]

I do not understand your question. Do you mean that some unbelievers are not yet revealed to be His children?

You Said God save only His Children. That mean His children It was unsave. So there are unsave children and there are unsave non children and God only save unsave children is that right?

 

[Jackson123]

HI Jackson,

God created them, as simply what the Bible says. God didn’t choose them to bear offspring and reside in the Garden of Eden. When God created them, God already knew of the pro creation.
Obedience to God is not the means why God placed them at the Garden of Eden. It is the willful act of God to place them there to begin with. Disobedience to the command of God by eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil displeased God and resulted to their expulsion.

Now, I am getting your point about free will that if they have chosen to obey God, means that they were still right there until today. Your will or God’s will? Either your’s or God’s and were created for God’s yet God created us in his own image which include having a “will”.

Yes I believe in John 3:16 that “whosoever will” believe will be saved. God loves us all but only those who respond to the Gospel through faith will be saved. Romans 10 give us the sequential event leading to the belief of the truth or the Gospel.

Yet, it’s still true, it’s God’s will not our will that saves us.

God bless

Yep obedeance not make God put them in the Garden of Eden but It keep them in the Garden, Yes It is God Will to save us for God so love the world and also my Will to be save by believe in Him, I vote to believe in Him.

 

[Jackson123]

And you're falt out denying the God of the bible. He hates ppl and I gave you ample verses to support it. You just keep rejecting what the bible clearly teaches about God hating ppl.

I do not feel like, and I am Sorry to say otherwise. I believe WHOsoever believe in Him Will be save and It is bible