We choose Jesus or Jesus choose us

[trofimus]

so what verse make you believe Israel,not come to the Lord because God make It?

First, I do not think that God has to make somebody "not come", in most cases. Its natural that people are running away from God, not the opposite.

Secondly, that God has to give many gifts and graces to His elect ones, is throughout Scriptures:

- faith
- being born from above
- calling
- perseverance
- deeds
- new heart
- repentance
- good will
- good soil for the message
- etc

These things are not from us, but must be given to us.

 

[shrume]

First, I do not think that God has to make somebody "not come", in most cases. Its natural that people are running away from God, not the opposite.

Secondly, that God has to give many gifts and graces to His elect ones, is throughout Scriptures:

- faith

People decide to have faith.

- being born from above

That comes from God when we act on Rom 10:9-10 (cp Eph 1:13).

- calling

God is calling all men (1 Tim 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9).

- perseverance

Our persevering is an act of our will.

- deeds

Things we determine to do.

- new heart

Yes, the "new man" comes from God. The Christian new birth occurs when we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

- repentance

Something we decide to do.

- good will

Again, an act of our will.

- good soil for the message

We determine the type of soil we are.

- etc

These things are not from us, but must be given to us.

Almost all of those things are things we decide to do.

 

[trofimus]

People decide to have faith.


That comes from God when we act on Rom 10:9-10 (cp Eph 1:13).


God is calling all men (1 Tim 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9).


Our persevering is an act of our will.


Things we determine to do.


Yes, the "new man" comes from God. The Christian new birth occurs when we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.


Something we decide to do.


Again, an act of our will.


We determine the type of soil we are.


Almost all of those things are things we decide to do.

Its a midnight here, so I am going to sleep, I will respond after 8 hours, if somebody other will not take the relay instead of me till then

 

[Jackson123]

First, I do not think that God has to make somebody "not come", in most cases. Its natural that people are running away from God, not the opposite.

Secondly, that God has to give many gifts and graces to His elect ones, is throughout Scriptures:

- faith
- being born from above
- calling
- perseverance
- deeds
- new heart
- repentance
- good will
- good soil for the message
- etc

These things are not from us, but must be given to us.

than what verse make you believe Refused to give those 10 gifts to Israel

 

[stonesoffire]

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
(Genesis 1:26-27)

If God has "free will" why don't we?

Because we are under influence. Either of our fallen nature, or of our new nature in Jesus. Free choice maybe but then there is something that interrupts our darkness, to make the choice.

 

[Jackson123]

than what verse make you believe Refused to give those 10 gifts to Israel

Correction

what verse make you believe God refused to give those 10 gift to Israel ?

 

[fredoheaven]

Yep obedeance not make God put them in the Garden of Eden but It keep them in the Garden, Yes It is God Will to save us for God so love the world and also my Will to be save by believe in Him, I vote to believe in Him.

No for Calvinism or Arminianism, I am bible believer.

There seems a needed correction here. It is not because of “your/my Will” but it is because you/me heard the Gospel of salvation and convicted by the Holy Spirit, so that I/you may respond by faith on hm. Is it then not your/me will but so far it is the power of God not yours/me. People are sinner and in lost condition, blind and cannot see but it took grace to reach you/me and because of faith and I now belong to him, I’ve been found before I found Him.

God bless

 

[Jackson123]

No for Calvinism or Arminianism, I am bible believer.

There seems a needed correction here. It is not because of “your/my Will” but it is because you/me heard the Gospel of salvation and convicted by the Holy Spirit, so that I/you may respond by faith on hm. Is it then not your/me will but so far it is the power of God not yours/me. People are sinner and in lost condition, blind and cannot see but it took grace to reach you/me and because of faith and I now belong to him, I’ve been found before I found Him.

God bless

A Lot of non Christian, why Holy Spirit not covicted them ?

 

[Nehemiah6]

A Lot of non Christian, why Holy Spirit not covicted them ?

Neither you nor I would know who has been convicted and who has not. Yes there are a lot of non-Christians, and we simply need to get the Gospel (or Bibles) out to as many as possible. After that we must leave the matter in the hands of God, and God the Holy Spirit will use the Gospel and the Word of God to convict and to convince.

 

[Zmouth]

You mean "work out your salvation"? Yeah, but who will work it out? The ones who are given the grace

I was just referring unto - forced to be born physically? - part...as in delivery....

 

[fredoheaven]

A Lot of non Christian, why Holy Spirit not covicted them ?

There are many possible reasons/anwers to this kind of questions. Let me figure some.

1. The case of unpardonable sin. The sinner wholly rejects the Gospel and Christ. Why did one reject primarily the Gospel and Christ? This is not because he chose to but because the god of this world hath already blinded their eyes to see the truth. Now is freewill cause him to do so? I bet His own will not necessarily his own volition, it’s because his will is controlled by another will/ spirit and not his own will/ spirit.
2. These non-Christians haven’t heard of Christ and the Gospel. For how can the Holy Spirit convict him and convince if these have not heard the clear saving knowledge of Christ and the Gospel.
3. This matter must be the work of God(Holy Spirit) not man’s. The potter always hath the power over the clay.

Isah. 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Romans 6:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


God bless

 

[1lite]

John 15:16 this happens to me i hate God i even curse him doing occult staff in my heart but he show me his LOVE it is AMAZING ​

 

[trofimus]

People decide to have faith.

No, faith is a gift:

Jude 1:3 - "contend earnestly for the faith that was once given to all saints"

[being born from above] - That comes from God when we act on Rom 10:9-10 (cp Eph 1:13).

- when it comes from God, it is not from us, but it is a gift

God is calling all men (1 Tim 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9).

- God uses gospel. In history, gospel was spread in Europe, but not in South America or in India. To hear the calling is also a gift, not given to all everywhere. This is also something you cannot give to yourself, but need some outside grace.

Our persevering is an act of our will.

- and our good will is of God:
"for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose" Php 2:13
- again you cannot give yourself God to work in you, its a grace from Him

[deeds] - Things we determine to do.

- the same as above, every good will and every good deed in us comes from God
"for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose"[/I] Php 2:13

Yes, the "new man" comes from God. The Christian new birth occurs when we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

And faith is a gift from God, so again, God's grace is the source. See point #1

[repentance] Something we decide to do.

This "decision" of ours has again its source in God's grace:
"Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth" (2 Tm 2:25)

[good will] - Again, an act of our will.

And again, this "our will" is from God:
"for it is God who works in you to will...in order to fulfill his good purpose" Php 2:13

We determine the type of soil we are.

I would like to know how you do that.

Almost all of those things are things we decide to do.

Actually, I proved that for any of them you need a grace from God.

 

[trofimus]

Correction

what verse make you believe God refused to give those 10 gift to Israel ?

Somebody has to be elect:
"What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened" R 11:7

 

[fredoheaven]

John 15:16 this happens to me i hate God i even curse him doing occult staff in my heart but he show me his LOVE it is AMAZING ​

Chosen as friends kabayan...

thanks

 

[Jackson123]

John 15:16 this happens to me i hate God i even curse him doing occult staff in my heart but he show me his LOVE it is AMAZING ​

nice testimony, I believe occult make you drive you crazy, It is demonic they hate us and liar

 

[Jackson123]

Somebody has to be elect:
"What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened" R 11:7

yup, elect base oN their faith, not pre elect brother.

 

[trofimus]

yup, elect base oN their faith, not pre elect brother.

Show me in any text that election is based on faith and not the opposite.

"So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace." R 11:5
- not chosen by their faith

"And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal."(Rom 11:4)
- God has reserved for Himself, its His job

 

[Jackson123]

Show me in any text that election is based on faith and not the opposite.

"So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace." R 11:5
- not chosen by their faith

"And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal."(Rom 11:4)
- God has reserved for Himself, its His job

brother, you adviced me not isolate a verse, read bible AS the whole picture.

you give me a verse above R 11:14
God give criteria not bowed to baal

john 3:16 whosoever believe

both of those verse talk about faith. Have faith in God make them not bowed to baal

 

[trofimus]

brother, you adviced me not isolate a verse, read bible AS the whole picture.

you give me a verse above R 11:14
God give criteria not bowed to baal

john 3:16 whosoever believe

both of those verse talk about faith. Have faith in God make them not bowed to baal

They did not bow to baal because God has reserved them for himself. You think that God has reserved them because they were better than others (in not bowing to baal), but thats works-based election and really not biblical.

Jon 3:16 is irrelevant, because it does not talk about what is the source of believing.

Jude 1:3 says that faith is a gift from God.