We choose Jesus or Jesus choose us
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I make human dependent on God. As the Bible does.
I have already proven that even our will and deeds are from God, so when they obeyed God, it was also from God.
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If you think that our works precede our election and that God chosen them because they were more obedient than others, what about the context?
"And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”
So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.
And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace."
R 11
The text clearly says that God does not elect us based on our works.
I have already proven that even our will and deeds are from God, so when they obeyed God, it was also from God.
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If you think that our works precede our election and that God chosen them because they were more obedient than others, what about the context?
"And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”
So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.
And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace."
R 11
The text clearly says that God does not elect us based on our works.
OK now you have performed a surgery of the sentence. But what is Paul saying in the very next one?
"So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.
And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace."
Context determines what is going on. His election is by grace. It is not based on our works, on our quality. It would not be grace anymore.
"So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.
And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace."
Context determines what is going on. His election is by grace. It is not based on our works, on our quality. It would not be grace anymore.
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And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. (Joshua 24:15)
He calls, now it's according to our response to that call.
He calls, now it's according to our response to that call.
in general, we save by grace
that happen after we choose to believe.
say Bill Gate make invitation.
Whosoever first 100 people come to my house, oN my birthday, I Will give a new car.
than I am the first comer, He give me a grace, new 100 thousand dollar car.
I ask my uncle:" Am I earn this car?, did I work for this car?".
My uncle Said:" No It is a give, a grace."
But I chose to come, I work for It.
You work for it? My uncle Said.
Yes I Said, I spend $ 5 for transportation. I walk to bus stop.
see grace do not mean not you Decision.
Bill gate decide to give a car It is a grace
I decide to believe his invitation and walk to come
that happen after we choose to believe.
say Bill Gate make invitation.
Whosoever first 100 people come to my house, oN my birthday, I Will give a new car.
than I am the first comer, He give me a grace, new 100 thousand dollar car.
I ask my uncle:" Am I earn this car?, did I work for this car?".
My uncle Said:" No It is a give, a grace."
But I chose to come, I work for It.
You work for it? My uncle Said.
Yes I Said, I spend $ 5 for transportation. I walk to bus stop.
see grace do not mean not you Decision.
Bill gate decide to give a car It is a grace
I decide to believe his invitation and walk to come
A witness of an atheist who cannot force himself to believe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m55PTtXF4M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m55PTtXF4M
The fact that we make choices does not say that we do not need gifts of God do choose what is good and needed. Or that we can choose faith etc.
I would recommend you to read small book of Augustin - On Grace and Free Will.
CHURCH FATHERS: On Grace and Free Will (St. Augustine)
I would recommend you to read small book of Augustin - On Grace and Free Will.
CHURCH FATHERS: On Grace and Free Will (St. Augustine)
J
Depends on what you mean by"Chosen" for it is written"many are called but few are chosen",in a sense we now must "choose" Jesus as saviour otherwise we are not yet Saved and committed to Jesus,but it is also written"before we loved him he loved us" so it's to be understood that Jesus now expects people to accept him and his promise of salvation but not all will,so it's kind of like a yes and no situation because we "individually" choose whom we serve,but Jesus is prepared to accept anyone as his once they accept him,but there is still the possibility that a person will not choose Jesus and salvation,Biblically Jesus chose many a person as disciples/apostles so he certainly foresees that many have the "potential" to do great things for him,yet he still leaves the "individual choice" of accepting and serving Jesus to us,somethings in life aren't as simple as yes and no,as many believe,somethings require understanding that we can't grasp alone,which is why we fellowship or ask God for answers,because otherwise we might pridefully come to a conclusion even perhaps an incorrect conclusion and confound others through such pride,realizing that one doesn't "know everything" is probably one of the best character building traits to practice because we grow in spirit and wisdom as we learn and teach and teach and learn,instead of being prideful saying things such as "I'm right and you're wrong" so quickly before we are "Sure".
Jude 1
13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
is this verse say faith is a give?
seem to me this verse not say faith is a give.
You can say everything we have is a give, hand is a give, because we can not make a hand, faith is an attitude of believing, we use our brain to do so, and a brain is a give.
we use our brain to chose, so chose is a give.
if we chose not to believe is a give, because brain is a give
John give me a knife, that knife is a give.
Than up to me If I use It for Cooking vegetable or rob the bank, It make No different that knife is a give
if I use that knife to cook, that knife is a give
if I use that knife to rob the bank, that knife is also a give, I get that knife by grace No matter what
and If I refuse that give, I do not have that knife
13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
is this verse say faith is a give?
seem to me this verse not say faith is a give.
You can say everything we have is a give, hand is a give, because we can not make a hand, faith is an attitude of believing, we use our brain to do so, and a brain is a give.
we use our brain to chose, so chose is a give.
if we chose not to believe is a give, because brain is a give
John give me a knife, that knife is a give.
Than up to me If I use It for Cooking vegetable or rob the bank, It make No different that knife is a give
if I use that knife to cook, that knife is a give
if I use that knife to rob the bank, that knife is also a give, I get that knife by grace No matter what
and If I refuse that give, I do not have that knife
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Election is unconditional in the sense that God did not base His choice on His foreknowledge of whether certain people would choose to believe in Christ. If He had done so, it would be a denial of His grace, because then their salvation would be based on something which they did in and of themselves. But Scripture is clear that salvation is totally by God’s grace (unmerited favor; (Eph. 2:8-9); (Rom 9:11-18); (Rom. 11:5-6).
Also, if God’s choosing us were based on His foreknowledge that we would choose Him, then He really didn’t choose us at all. Rather, He only would have responded to our choosing Him by then choosing us. But this would make God’s plan of salvation depend on the choices of fallen sinners, rather than on His purpose and glory. It would be puzzling as to why Paul plainly states, “He chose us,” if in fact, it were the other way around.
Such reasoning fits with human logic, but not with the revealed Word of God. Jesus plainly stated (John 6:65), “no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.” No one can means, no one is able. Clearly, the Father did not grant this to everyone, or Jesus’ statement would be needless. Jesus also said (Matt. 11:27), “no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.” Knowing the Father depends on the Son of God choosing to reveal Him to the individual, which He does not do for everyone. But, what are the very next words out of Jesus’ mouth? “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest” (Matt. 11:28). Jesus saw no contradiction between saying, “No one can know or come, unless I will it; therefore, come!” Neither should we! When Paul says, “God chose us,” we pervert Scripture if we twist it to mean, “We first chose God.”
Thus, He first loves us, and then we respond to His love by our will and subsequently, He then employs and empowers our will to live to the glory of the Father and Triune thru righteousness as our new Spiritual living.
Also, if God’s choosing us were based on His foreknowledge that we would choose Him, then He really didn’t choose us at all. Rather, He only would have responded to our choosing Him by then choosing us. But this would make God’s plan of salvation depend on the choices of fallen sinners, rather than on His purpose and glory. It would be puzzling as to why Paul plainly states, “He chose us,” if in fact, it were the other way around.
Such reasoning fits with human logic, but not with the revealed Word of God. Jesus plainly stated (John 6:65), “no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.” No one can means, no one is able. Clearly, the Father did not grant this to everyone, or Jesus’ statement would be needless. Jesus also said (Matt. 11:27), “no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.” Knowing the Father depends on the Son of God choosing to reveal Him to the individual, which He does not do for everyone. But, what are the very next words out of Jesus’ mouth? “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest” (Matt. 11:28). Jesus saw no contradiction between saying, “No one can know or come, unless I will it; therefore, come!” Neither should we! When Paul says, “God chose us,” we pervert Scripture if we twist it to mean, “We first chose God.”
Thus, He first loves us, and then we respond to His love by our will and subsequently, He then employs and empowers our will to live to the glory of the Father and Triune thru righteousness as our new Spiritual living.
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