rapture and the second coming, the same thing?

[Muzungu256]

No doctrine just know my Bible.

bwahahahaha. im not a bible expert but even i know that 2 thessalonians 2 is NOT speaking about america....... come on mon.
paul wrote in the 1st century, where was america then???? how am i supposed to be nice in the face of this type of absurdity???????? im really trying u see.

 

[Depleted]

If I were you I wouldn’t worry about the rapture because you won’t be alive to see it. In 2 Thes 2:7 it says he that letteth will let TIL he be taken out of the way. That he is us, the U.S. we are taken out by God because Israel has to be left on her own

That's just scary that you think God is a respecter of a nation.

 

[Deacon_D]

Then who is it? Remember Job’s three friends?

 

[Depleted]

bwahahahaha. im not a bible expert but even i know that 2 thessalonians 2 is NOT speaking about america....... come on mon.
paul wrote in the 1st century, where was america then???? how am i supposed to be nice in the face of this type of absurdity???????? im really trying u see.

It was in the same place it still is -- like your country. Inhabited, and yet, not by the present people who inhabit them now, nor did it carry that name.

 

[Depleted]

Then who is it? Remember Job’s three friends?

When you turn the Bible into what you want it to say, don't blame it on the Bible. Blame it on you.

 

[Deacon_D]

just His people the true Israel.

 

[joefizz]

Then who is it? Remember Job’s three friends?

You mean the ones that stared at him and then spoke ill of him,the fourth friend spoke well of God so he wasn't punished by God.

 

[joefizz]

When you turn the Bible into what you want it to say, don't blame it on the Bible. Blame it on you.

Gasp,you mean people actually admit when they've done something wrong?
things are changing lol.

 

[Deacon_D]

you know that in seven years another eclipse will cross the U.S. Xing it out. You don’t think God knows what he’s doing. He said He gave us the sun, moon,and the stars for signs. Read the signs.

 

[unobtrusive]

If I were you I wouldn’t worry about the rapture because you won’t be alive to see it. In 2 Thes 2:7 it says he that letteth will let TIL he be taken out of the way. That he is us, the U.S. we are taken out by God because Israel has to be left on her own

I don't know if I agree with you concerning 2 Thessalonians 2:7, but I do agree that the U.S. has to be inactive in order for Ezekiel 38 and 39 to take place.

"And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now (just now, this moment) letteth will let, until he be taken (come into existence) out of (away from) the way (the middle)." (2 Thessalonians 2:6-7)

"The mystery of wickedness is certainly even now active, but Antichrist cannot be manifest until the power preventing him be overcome." (Meyer's NT Commentary)

I have always thought that "ye know what withholdeth" was the "he" referring to the Holy Spirit. Then again, I could be wrong, and you could be right. It could be that the "antichrist" is not revealed yet because the U.S. is in the way.

 

[unobtrusive]

If I were you I wouldn’t worry about the rapture because you won’t be alive to see it. In 2 Thes 2:7 it says he that letteth will let TIL he be taken out of the way. That he is us, the U.S. we are taken out by God because Israel has to be left on her own

I don't know if I agree with you concerning 2 Thessalonians 2:7, but I do agree that the U.S. has to be inactive in order for Ezekiel 38 and 39 to take place.

"And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now (just now, this moment) letteth will let, until he be taken (come into existence) out of (away from) the way (the middle)." (2 Thessalonians 2:6-7)

"The mystery of wickedness is certainly even now active, but Antichrist cannot be manifest until the power preventing him be overcome." (Meyer's NT Commentary)

I have always thought that "ye know what withholdeth" was the "he" referring to the Holy Spirit. Then again, I could be wrong, and you could be right. It could be that the "antichrist" is not revealed yet because the U.S. is in the way.

With tongue in check I'll go a little further. In my opinion, when taking numerous scriptures into account, and relating them to the "so called" rapture, I don't see proof that a pre-tribulation rapture will take place, but this scripture can be taken that way if the "he" is referring to the church.

I think the "he" might mean that the day will come that the church cannot resist the devil because it has resisted the law of God in the Pentateuch. After all, the law is what Jesus quoted to Satan in the wilderness after His baptism. The quotations were all from the book of Deuteronomy, the summary of the law. It could be that the church will be ineffective (taken out of the way) in the last days because of this.

 

[heartofdavid]

I don't disagree with you at all. The twinkling of an eye is when we go up. The twinkling of an eye isn't when we come down. When we come down, we have a battle to fight along side of our King of Kings. I'm "post tribulation" also. The General has to call His army together with His angels before the battle.

Revelation 19:11-16
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And I saw *heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the armies which were in *heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

*Heaven = (οὐρανός ouranós) the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it. the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the *clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced.

*Heaven = (οὐρανός ouranós) the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it. the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the *clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced.

G3772 heaven

where Gods throne is
look it up.

You left out the back drop of rev 19. The scene is in heaven,not the sky.

 

[unobtrusive]

G3772 heaven

where Gods throne is
look it up.

You left out the back drop of rev 19. The scene is in heaven,not the sky.

Back your opinion up with scripture please.

Heaven G2772 οὐρανός ouranós, oo-ran-os'; perhaps from the same as G3735 (through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension, heaven (as the abode of God); by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specially, the Gospel (Christianity):—air, heaven(-ly), sky.

G3735 mountain ὄρος óros

When we are caught up into the clouds with Jesus, there isn't any scripture that says He, with us, return to the third heaven, and Jesus sits back down at the right hand of His Father. There are, however, scriptures that say we will be on earth with Him at His second coming. Even Revelation 19:17 indicate the heaven is where the birds fly.

2 Thessalonians1:7-10.[SUP]
7 [/SUP]And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

1 Corinthians 6:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

I find no scripture that the so called "raptured" people go to the throne in the third heaven, or even that after the rapture Jesus goes back with us to the throne of heaven. There is however, much earlier in scripture, a multitude who had been murdered "under the altar." (Revelation 6:9-10)

On the other hand, there is scripture that clearly indicate, we will come with Jesus back to earth and rule with Him after the, so called, "rapture."

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation 18:4 (being taken up into the clouds with Christ Jesus)
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Revelation 19:1 and 8 (shortly before the second advent while in the clouds of heaven)
1. And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
8. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Revelation 19:11-14 (Christ's second coming with His angels and saints)[SUP]
11 [/SUP]And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

This pretty well explains my understanding of the sequence concerning the second coming of Christ Jesus, including His true church being taken up into the clouds with Him.

No place in scripture do I find that we go any farther up than the clouds before the second advent.