The Eternal Significance of the Abrahamic Covenant

[garee]

So the New Jerusalem is for the Church as well as the OT saints, and the land is for Israel in the future.

Not all Israel is Israel as born again Christians... the new name he named his bride the church.. And the land not seen is the "eternal land" not the temporal used in parables to hide the spiritual meaning from those who do not have the born again Spirit of Christ.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Abraham a word used in parables represent our heavenly father the father of many nations (all) the bosum of Abraham representing to the invisible presence of God as the cloud of witness dwelling in the heart of men (Emmanuel)

When Abraham died he had purchased a field of the pagans gentiles . Not buried in the temporal land used to represent that not seen the eternal land, the new heavens and earth.

Gen 23:19 And after this, Abraham buried Sarah his wife in the cave of the field of Machpelah before Mamre: the same is Hebron in the land of Canaan.

We look to the literal seen the temporal to understand the eternal things of God not seen . Hiding that spiritual understanding in regard to those who have not the Spirit of Christ.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Abraham a word used in parables represent our heavenly father the father of many nations (all) the bosum of Abraham representing to the invisible presence of God as the cloud of witness dwelling in the heart of men (Emmanuel)

garee,
This is pure speculation. If "Abraham" is a hidden meaning for God, then Scripture can be made to say anything we please. What you hare suggesting has not foundation in Scripture. Abraham is Abraham and God is God. The Abrahamic Covenant is to be taken as an actual covenant, and the Church does NOT replace a redeemed and restored Israel on earth. Replacement Theology has been shown to be false.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Scripture confirms the fulfillment of the promise as he gave it to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and Joshua.
The fulfillment of that land promise.
1. Regarding the land promise, “all came to pass,” Joshua 21:43-45. “So the Lord gave Israel ALL the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it. And the Lord gave them rest on every side, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers, and no one of all their enemies stood before them; the Lord gave all their enemies into their hand. Not one of the good promises which the Lord had made to the house of Israel failed; ALL came to pass.”
2. Everything promised to the patriarchs was realized.

(red mine)

All promised was given.

All promised was not realized.

Again, I do not believe the children of Israel fully possessed all that God promised to Abraham.

That is my belief. You do not agree with what I believe.

I can live with that.

 

[oldhermit]

(red mine)

All promised was given.

All promised was not realized.

Again, I do not believe the children of Israel fully possessed all that God promised to Abraham.

That is my belief. You do not agree with what I believe.

I can live with that.

Of course it was realized. What was promised became reality. That is what the word 'realized' means.
"I gave you a land...they possessed it and lived in it...all came to pass...all have been fulfilled...not one word has failed...They came in and took possession of it,”

 

[Johnny_B]

nice post. i agree that land belongs to them but what about christians????? if we are abraham seed u see. dont it belong to us then too or what?

This covenant of the land is to Abraham's physical offspring, Chirstians do not fulfill this reqirement in Genesis 15:13-16 “Then He said to Abram: “Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years.14 And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions.15 Now as for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age.16 But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”

Only Abraham's physical offspring were slaves in Egypt.

 

[Johnny_B]

Genesis 15:

18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,

20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,

21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.


Here is a map of the land shown in Gen 15:

The promise of the land to Abraham's seed has yet to be fulfilled. The children of Israel never possessed the full inheritance. I believe there is a day coming when the full inheritance will be realized and that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will reign.

God is not slack concerning His promises ...

Amen, this idea that the Church is the fulfillment of all covenants and Jesus is the land is reading into the Scriptures. Christians did not live in the land and we did not suffer in a strang land for four generations. If the Church fulfills all the promises to Abraham why has the Lord preserved the Jewish people for over 300 years the first time, then over 1800 years. In the history of mankind no people have survived more then 300 years before being totally assimulated into the people of the land that they live in. But not the Jews, if you do not think that the Lord is the one that preserved them so He can fulfill the everlating covenant of the land to Abraham. It is because you do not believe what the Holy Spirit wrote through Paul in Romans 11:1-10, you think God is done with Israel when the Word of God says He is not. The proof, He could of let the Jews be eraced by history, but He did not. Why because He is sovereign over His people, Romans 11:1a-b "I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not!"

If you can not see that the Jews were preserved by the Lord, you deny Scripture, this has nothing to do with dispensationalism, it has to do wit Scripture and an everlasting coverant about land and a people. Read Genesis 17 that covenant also involoved circumcision, do Chirtians need to be circumcised. Notice that this covenant if you do not get circumcised you brake it.

Genesis 17:14 "And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.”

The eternal covenant of the land requires circumsion, Christians are not required to be circumscied becaue tey are not part of the eternal covenant of the land. Try to replace that.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Of course it was realized. What was promised became reality. That is what the word 'realized' means.
"I gave you a land...they possessed it and lived in it...all came to pass...all have been fulfilled...not one word has failed...They came in and took possession of it,

Again, oldhermit, you believe that the promise in Gen 15 has been fulfilled.

I believe there is still future fulfillment of the promise to Abraham's Seed (singular ... as in Messiah, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ). I also believe the promise shall absolutely be fulfilled at some point in the future.

I can live with you not agreeing with me.

 

[oldhermit]

Again, oldhermit, you believe that the promise in Gen 15 has been fulfilled.

I believe there is still future fulfillment of the promise to Abraham's Seed (singular ... as in Messiah, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ). I also believe the promise shall absolutely be fulfilled at some point in the future.

I can live with you not agreeing with me.

But I am not the one who is disagreeing with you, scripture is.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

But I am not the one disagreeing with you, scripture is.

Your interpretation of Scripture does not align with my interpretation of Scripture.

Again, I can live with that.

 

[oldhermit]

Your interpretation of Scripture does not align with my interpretation of Scripture.

Again, I can live with that.

It is not a matter of interpretation. I did not interpret anything. I merely quoted the scriptures. They speak for themselves without any help from me.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I am not interested in re-hashing this issue with you, oldhermit.

I believe there is still future fulfillment of the promise God made to Abraham in Gen 15:18-21.

You believe the promise was fulfilled and you do not believe there is future fulfillment of the promise.

Have a very blessed day, oldhermit.

 

[oldhermit]

I am not interested in re-hashing this issue with you, oldhermit.

I believe there is still future fulfillment of the promise God made to Abraham in Gen 15:18-21.

You believe the promise was fulfilled and you do not believe there is future fulfillment of the promise.

Have a very blessed day, oldhermit.

Then I shall bother you no more.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Then I shall bother you no more.

Thank you.

Always a pleasure, oldhermit.

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."[/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Rom 11:16-31, “Now if the first-fruit is set-apart, the lump is also. And if the root is set-apart, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, have been grafted in among them, and came to share the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. And if you boast, remember: you do not bear the root, but the root bears you! You shall say then, “The branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” Good! By unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by belief. Do not be arrogant, but fear. For if Yah did not spare the natural branches, He might not spare you either. See then the kindness and sharpness of Yah: on those who fell sharpness, but toward you kindness, if you continue in His kindness, otherwise you also shall be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, shall be grafted in, for Yah is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more shall these who are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I do not wish you to be ignorant of this secret, brothers, lest you should be wise in your own estimation, that hardening in part has come over Yisra’ĕl, until the completeness of the gentiles has come in. And so all Yisra’ĕl shall be saved, as it has been written, “The Deliverer shall come out of Tsiyon, and He shall turn away wickedness from Ya‛aqoḇ, and this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins. Truly, as regards the Good News they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of Yah are not to be repented of. For as you also at one time disobeyed Yah, but now have obtained compassion through their disobedience, so also these have now disobeyed, that through the compassion shown you they also might obtain compassion.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 5:7-8, "Therefore cleanse out the old leaven, so that you are a new lump, as you are unleavened. For also Messiah our Passover was offered for us. So then let us observe the festival, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of evil and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 12:37-40, “And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children. 38, And a *mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle. 39, And they baked unleavened cakes of the dough which they brought forth out of Egypt, for it was not leavened; because they were thrust out of Egypt, and could not tarry, neither had they prepared for themselves any victual. 40, Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The words “*mixed multitude” are words:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]H6154 - [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]עֶרֶב עֵרֶב [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]- ‛êreb ‛ereb, ay'-reb, eh'-reb, The second form used in 1 Kings 10:15 with the article prefixed); from H6148; the web (or transverse threads of cloth); also a mixture, (or mongrel race):—Arabia, mingled people, mixed (multitude)[/FONT]

 

[Nehemiah6]

John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

Hizikyah,
You have posted a number of Scripture (as this one) without giving their connection or significance in relation to the OP. So it would help to post what you wish to convey.

 

[Hizikyah]

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Numbers 23:19-20, “YHWH is not a man, that He should lie, or a son of man, that He should repent. What He has said, will He not do it? Or what He has spoken, will He not make it come to pass? Behold, I am commanded to bless; and when He has blessed, I cannot change it.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Malakyah 3:6, “For I am YHWH, I change not; therefore you sons of Yaaqob are not consumed.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 33:11 YHWH's counsel stands forever! The thoughts of His heart stand for all generations! Praise You, YHWH!”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isayah 46:9-10, “Remember the former things of old, for I am YHWH, and there is none else; I am YHWH, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times those things which are not yet done, saying; My a counsel will stand, and I will fulfill all My plan.”[/FONT]

Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah יהושע. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”

John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Phillipians 3:20, "But our citizenship is in heaven, out from which we also eagerly wait for our Ruler, Yahshua Messiah the King"

We await this day;

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 2:6-9, “But I, I have set My Sovereign on Tsiyon, My set-apart mountain. I inscribe for a law: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have brought You forth. Ask of Me, and I make the nations Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth Your possession. Break them with a rod of iron, Dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniyl 2:34-35, "You watched while a stone, which was cut out without hands, struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them into pieces. Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were broken to pieces at the same time, and became like the chaff on the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that no trace of them could be found; and the stone that struck the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniyl 7:13-14, “I was looking in the night visions and saw One like the Son of Enosh, coming with the clouds of the heavens! And He came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him. And to Him was given rulership and preciousness and a reign, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His rule is an everlasting rule which shall not pass away, and His reign that which shall not be destroyed.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 2:6-12,“But I, I have set My Sovereign on Tsiyon, My set-apart mountain. I inscribe for a law: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have brought You forth. Ask of Me, and I make the gentiles Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth Your possession. ‘Break them with a rod of iron, Dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ And now, be wise, O sovereigns; Be instructed, you rulers of the earth. Serve [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]with fear, And rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest He be enraged, And you perish in the way, For soon His wrath is to be kindled. Blessed are all those taking refuge in Him.”[/FONT]

 

[Bogadile]

Hizikyah is there a bible translation that has the names in hebrew, because you are aware that the new testament was written in greek right`?

 

[Hizikyah]

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

Malachi/Malakyah 4:1-4, “For look, the day shall come, burning like a furnace, and all the proud, and every wrongdoer shall be stubble. And the day that shall come shall burn them up,” said יהוה of hosts, “which leaves to them neither root nor branch. 2 “But to you who fear My Name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings. And you shall go out and leap for joy like calves from the stall. 3 “And you shall trample the wrongdoers, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,” said יהוה of hosts. 4 “Remember the Torah of Mosheh, My servant, which I commanded him in Ḥorĕḇ for all Yisra’ĕl – laws and right-rulings."

Isaiah 24:1-6, "See, יהוה is making the earth empty and making it waste, and shall overturn its surface, and shall scatter abroad its inhabitants. 2 And it shall be – as with the people so with the priest, as with the servant so with his master, as with the female servant so with her mistress, as with the buyer so with the seller, as with the lender so with the borrower, as with the creditor so with the debtor; 3 the earth is completely emptied and utterly plundered, for יהוה has spoken this word. 4 The earth shall mourn and wither, the world shall languish and wither, the haughty people of the earth shall languish. 5 For the earth has been defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the Torah, changed the law, broken the everlasting covenant. 6 Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, and those who dwell in it be punished. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth shall be burned, and few men shall be left."

​

John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."


Numbers 23:19, “Yah is not a man, to lie; nor a son of man, to change His mind! Has He said, and would He not do it; or spoken, and would not confirm it?”



Psalm 32:4-8, “For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me; My sap was turned into the droughts of summer. Selah. I acknowledged my sin to You, And my crookedness I did not hide. I have said, “I confess my transgressions to יהוה,” And You forgave the crookedness of my sin. Selah. Therefore, let every kind one pray to You While You might be found; Even in a flood of great waters They would not reach him. You are my hiding place; You preserve me from distress; You surround me with songs of deliverance. Selah. Let Me instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; Let Me counsel, My eye be on you.”


Isayah 44:22, "“I shall wipe out your transgressions like a cloud, and your sins like a mist. Return to Me, for I shall redeem you.”


Psalms 25:14-18, “The secret of יהוה is with those who fear Him, And He makes His covenant known to them. My eyes are ever toward יהוה, For He brings my feet out of the net. Turn Your face to me, and show me favor, For I am lonely and afflicted. The distresses of my heart have enlarged; Oh, bring me out of my distresses! Look on my affliction and my toil, And forgive all my sins.



Lamentations 3:21-28, “This I recall to my mind, therefore I wait: The loving-commitments of יהוה! For we have not been consumed, For His compassions have not ended. They are new every morning, Great is Your trustworthiness. “יהוה is my Portion,” says my being, “Therefore I wait for Him! יהוה is good to those waiting for Him, To the being who seeks Him. It is good – both to wait and to be silent, For the deliverance of יהוה. It is good for a man to bear a yoke in his youth. Let him sit alone and be silent, Because He has laid it on him.”



Isaiah 55:9-11, “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain comes down, and the snow from the heavens, and do not return there, but water the earth, and make it bring forth and bud, and give seed to the sower and bread to the eater, so is My Word that goes forth from My mouth – it does not return to Me empty, but shall do what I please, and shall certainly accomplish what I sent it for.”

​

 

[Hizikyah]

Hizikyah,
You have posted a number of Scripture (as this one) without giving their connection or significance in relation to the OP. So it would help to post what you wish to convey.

The Covenant was from the begining, is one, and Yahshua being the Passover Lamb was know by Yah before Egypt...

John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah יהושע. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”