Not By Works
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All you have to say is you agree with me for the necessity for believing, with the additional note that you believe the believer will never stop believing. There's no reason for you to go off the deep end and say I'm teaching a works gospel, lol. Or do you not believe that the true believer will always believe?
Here’s one that can help undo your confusion. Can a person who preaches to his sheep under the law teach on the new moon festivals yet say there is no Sabath. Would he not be a false prophet? Then if a preacher preach on th whole Bible say Acts 2:38 is not needed,is he not a false prophet? Jesus said if you keep the whole law except one little thing you have broken the whole law. Think about it.
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No, no, no, lol.
Eternal security is based on what you believe God will do (and has already done).
Remember, you said it, not me, lol. And I agree....there is no OSAS doctrine in the Bible.
And that doctrine of the eternal security of the believer you are referring to says that once you are saved you are always saved. That's why it's called 'OSAS'.
Biblical security is this: The one who is presently believing is secure in eternal life--Jesus Christ. That's why we need to keep believing...so we'll remain secure in the eternal life God has provided--Jesus Christ.
Eternal security is based on what you believe God will do (and has already done).
Remember, you said it, not me, lol. And I agree....there is no OSAS doctrine in the Bible.
And that doctrine of the eternal security of the believer you are referring to says that once you are saved you are always saved. That's why it's called 'OSAS'.
Biblical security is this: The one who is presently believing is secure in eternal life--Jesus Christ. That's why we need to keep believing...so we'll remain secure in the eternal life God has provided--Jesus Christ.
You try to sound like genuine born again believers, but then you DENY that Jeus work of SALVATION is PERFECT and COMPLETE and can be LOST; which means you believe Jesus lied when HE said HE GIVES IT TO US and IT IS ETERNAL.
Romans 4:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.
We believe that Literally, no and's, if's, or but's.
Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
Therefore if we can find absolute biblical proof of how the Lord saved ONE MAN, we will KNOW how GOD saves all men.
Romans 4:3-5 (CSBBible)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, pay is not credited as a gift, but as something owed.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes on him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.
Abraham BELIEVED GOD long before he ever took ISAAC to sacrifice him. THAT FAITH WAS PUT IN HIS HUMAN SPIRIT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT and at THAT VERY MOMENT moment HE was credited as being RIGHTEOUS. NOT because of what Abraham would do, but because of what MESSIAH WOULD DO.
You appear to think FAITH is an intellectual Decision in your human mind. WE KNOW IT IS SOMETHING THAT HOLY SPIRIT PUTS INTO OUR SPIRITUAL MINDS THE MOMENT HE BIRTHS OUR HUMAN SPIRIT FROM BEING DEAD, TO BEING ETERNALLY ALIVE.
John 10:27-30 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] "I and the Father are one."
We believe that LITERALLY, making Salvation COMPLETE the moment we blieve. Obedience is an act of LOVE FOR HIM, that has NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION. ALL WHO ARE SAVED BY HIM, WILL LOVE HIM.
Do you BELIEVE those three sentences, from your heart, not just in your head?
P
I believe it literally, too. Notice Paul said "to the one who...BELIEVES" (present tense). But when I say it I'm called a 'worker for'. The passage literally makes a contrast between 'working for' and 'believing'. Yet I am branded as a damnable 'worker' for believing (present tense).
Question: Did you have the Holy Spirit from birth?
Why are you telling this to me???? I do not believe, nor defend any doctrine that says works make us righteous before God. I don't even read in detail any post that talks about this because they don't apply to what I believe or what I'm saying. Tell it to those who teach that.......whoever they are, lol. I've only met or talked to maybe two people in all my 31 years as a saved Christian who said our works earn us salvation. Neither of whom is in this forum.
Actually, faith is the ability to know something is true that you can not otherwise know is true. From there we choose to place our trust--our believing--in that which God has shown us to be true through the enabling of faith. You have faith and believing mixed up. Faith is the ability to then believe, if you so choose to. Most humans in history choose not to believe what God has shown them to be true.
He does not do your believing for you. He gave you faith so you can then believe/trust in Jesus and be saved. But he does not do your believing for you that you do in response to his free gift of 'knowing', his free gift of faith.
I believe them....that's why they are true for me. If I did not believe them, or stopped believing them, I would not be the recipient of these promises. The promises are conditioned on believing and belong ONLY to the believing, not the unbeliever, or the ex-believer. That's why you must keep believing.
You will never perish, or have anyone or anything snatch you out of Christ's hand if you believe that is true. That is the condition for having what he promises. Stop believing what he says and you no longer have His promises.
Question: Did you have the Holy Spirit from birth?
Why are you telling this to me???? I do not believe, nor defend any doctrine that says works make us righteous before God. I don't even read in detail any post that talks about this because they don't apply to what I believe or what I'm saying. Tell it to those who teach that.......whoever they are, lol. I've only met or talked to maybe two people in all my 31 years as a saved Christian who said our works earn us salvation. Neither of whom is in this forum.
Actually, faith is the ability to know something is true that you can not otherwise know is true. From there we choose to place our trust--our believing--in that which God has shown us to be true through the enabling of faith. You have faith and believing mixed up. Faith is the ability to then believe, if you so choose to. Most humans in history choose not to believe what God has shown them to be true.
He does not do your believing for you. He gave you faith so you can then believe/trust in Jesus and be saved. But he does not do your believing for you that you do in response to his free gift of 'knowing', his free gift of faith.
I believe them....that's why they are true for me. If I did not believe them, or stopped believing them, I would not be the recipient of these promises. The promises are conditioned on believing and belong ONLY to the believing, not the unbeliever, or the ex-believer. That's why you must keep believing.
You will never perish, or have anyone or anything snatch you out of Christ's hand if you believe that is true. That is the condition for having what he promises. Stop believing what he says and you no longer have His promises.
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THERE YOU GOD FLIP FLOPPING again, ARE YOU PLAYING THE 70'S MIND GAMES WITH US TO KEEP US IN A NONSENSE DEBATE, OR are you really planning to be the next Democratic Candidate running for President?
We have caught you making NUMEROUS WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS COMMENTs, so you are NOT telling the TRUTH when you say "that's what I've been saying! Why is it that when you say it it's not a works gospel, but when I say it it is?". Let's see, flip flopping, two sets of opposite comments about your version of the truth, depending on who you are talking to, etc. GEE, you must really be a Democratic Candidate.
We have caught you making NUMEROUS WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS COMMENTs, so you are NOT telling the TRUTH when you say "that's what I've been saying! Why is it that when you say it it's not a works gospel, but when I say it it is?". Let's see, flip flopping, two sets of opposite comments about your version of the truth, depending on who you are talking to, etc. GEE, you must really be a Democratic Candidate.
THERE YOU GO AGAIN, implying "What I DO keeps me saved", and implying that "One can STOP BELIEVING", both are heretical FALSE DOCTRINES. Genuine Saving Faith is in the Born Again spiritual mind and everything about that born again human spirit is ETERNAL. GENUINE BELIEVING IS NOT ABOUT WHAT GOES ON BETWEEN YOUR EARS. Satan has always disguised his lies, by mixing them in with some Truth. Your theology is like mixing to spoons of deadly poison into a bottle of Coke, the WHOLE THING BECOMES POISONOUS.
1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.
1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.
And the minute the one who is "presently believing," is secure, (meaning he or she may stop believing), then they will lose their eternal salvation. Then you say this; That's why we need to keep believing...so we'll remain secure in the eternal life God has provided--Jesus Christ.
The eternal security of the believer cannot be reduced to an acronym called OSAS. You are still trying to sell born again believers that they will lose their salvation by something they do not do, and you are wrong.
I'll choose God's eternal security over anything you have to say about "keep believing" for eternal security. You are twisting and turning the True Gospel into a Bad News Gospel, I'm not buying your lies, now go cook some more lasagna......
The eternal security of the believer cannot be reduced to an acronym called OSAS. You are still trying to sell born again believers that they will lose their salvation by something they do not do, and you are wrong.
I'll choose God's eternal security over anything you have to say about "keep believing" for eternal security. You are twisting and turning the True Gospel into a Bad News Gospel, I'm not buying your lies, now go cook some more lasagna......
J
This discussion is about God's word the bible there is no winner or loser,for it's not a competition,God is and has always been the one who obtains victory,if anyone is led to accepting Jesus as saviour and asking God to save their soul through what is said in this discussion then that is a victory but only for God for it is through "his"word that this is possible,not through our own knowledge or power.
