Not By Works

[BillG]

Your right there, Jesus is the only sinless one, but He hs made a way for us to become sinless also and that is through baptism in Jesus name and those who reject it is rejecting Christ.

I did not say I was sinless, go back and read that again (your response #38290)

Yes you say you are not sinless but do say he has made a way for us to become sinless.

So it seems it seems to me that you are saying that we can become sinless through baptism in Jesus name.

Do you think that before you die you will become sinless?
Or are you saying there is a way for us to sin less?
If so can that only happen is through baptism in Jesus name?
If so is this water baptism or spiritual baptism?

Therfore is a person is not baptised in water, they will neither become sinless or sin less?


To me when one comes to Jesus the Holy Spirit is in them, the promised helper that Jesus told us about.

Its he that conforms us to the image of Jesus, no promise to make us sinless but to grow to be like Jesus.
If we could become sinless then there was no reason for Jesus to die for us and those who have placed their faith in him when he died, when in the cross for those hours where the sins of the world were being placed on him, where God could not look at him, when Jesus said “My God, my God Why have you forsaken me?

He could have just come to earth and say “I am the Son of God, There is me the Father and the Holy Spirit.
We are all one, my purpose is to tell you not sin and become sinless and how you can do it. Whilst I am here I will tell you what the Father expects”

Jesus said he had to go back to the Father so the Holy Spirit must come, our helper.
He knew the only that could happen was to die on the cross for forgiveness of sins.
He himself said “If there is any other way please let this cup pass me by”
There was no other way. Only one way and that way was in place the minute Adam sinned.

Just my simple thoughts.
So maybe you help me understand your quotes above and what it is you are trying to convey.
Especially with rejecting Christ.

ta

Bill

 

[VCO]

Tell me who of you were baptized in that Wonderful Name of JSU’s?

NOW there is a slanted, loaded question, probably based on the False Doctrine of the Oneness Pentecostal Church.

Oneness Pentecostal theology maintains that baptism must be by immersion using the formula "in Jesus name" and not the formula "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" as is found in Matt. 28:19. They reject the Trinitarian formula because they reject the Trinity. To support their method, they cite various Bible verses that reference baptizing in Jesus' name and claim that this is proof for their doctrine. Following are some of the Bible references they quote.

• Acts 2:38," Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
• Acts 8:16, "For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."
• Acts 10:48, "And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."
• Acts 19:5, "When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."
• Acts 22:16, 'And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’

https://carm.org/must-baptism-be-in-jesus-name

Here is why both methods are CO-EQUALLY CORRECT:

Matthew 28:19-20 (CSBBible)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."


HE said to Teach them to observe everything He commanded; therefore that certainly includes Verse 19. He did not command to BAPTIZE in the NAMES (PLURAL). Therefore the NAME (SINGULAR) IS CORRECTLY PRINTED the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit WITH NO COMMA'S, BECAUSE THE THREE ARE ONE GOD, NOT THREE GODS.


Colossians 2:9 (NIV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,


2 Corinthians 5:19 (ASV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

John 14:9-10 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, “Have I been among you all this time without your knowing Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I speak to you I do not speak on My own. The Father who lives in Me does His works.


John 14:16-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor{Comforter} to be with you forever.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is the Spirit of truth. The world is unable to receive Him because it doesn’t see Him or know Him. But you do know Him, because He remains with you and will bein you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you.


Romans 8:10-11 (ASV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwelleth in you, he that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead shall give life also to your mortal bodies through his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


SEE IT, THE THREE ARE ONE GOD. The Fullness of DEITY, the only real DEITY THAT EXISTS, Dwells in JESUS, without CEASING TO BE OMNIPRESENT. THEREFORE it is CORRECT to Baptize in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, AND it is EQUALLY CORRECT to Baptize in the in the name of Jesus Christ. HE IS THE SUM TOTAL OF ALL THAT HE IS, EITHER WAY.

 

[joefizz]

You have yet to explain why it is that when you say 'I' should trust Jesus it isn't a self righteous 'ME' gospel, but when I tell people to trust God now all of a sudden it's a 'ME' gospel that's all about the person and not Jesus.

As a Calvinist, shouldn't you NOT be telling 'ME' to believe since it's up to God if he's going to do my believing and keep doing my believing for me? Seriously, why are you telling ME to trust Jesus when you have been repeatedly saying that if 'I' do the believing that's me trying to earn my own salvation? Shouldn't you, as a Calvinist, just keep quiet and just leave it up to God as to whether or not he's going to do my trusting for me?

This is a serious post. DO NOT BLOW IT OFF. If you are a teacher you HAVE to explain this duplicity. If nothing else, at least you should take ownership of it.

Well from what I can gather of your posts you say things like,"the present believer" and other such phrases indicating that you believe one can lose salvation and thereby must maintain one's own salvation,but I have a more simplistic question,"can someone believe wholly upon Jesus and then later on not believe upon him at all"?
and to be clear I said believe upon not believe in,two different phrases with different meanings.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well from what I can gather of your posts you say things like,"the present believer" and other such phrases indicating that you believe one can lose salvation and thereby must maintain one's own salvation,but I have a more simplistic question,"can someone believe wholly upon Jesus and then later on not believe upon him at all"?
and to be clear I said believe upon not believe in,two different phrases with different meanings.

amen, even demons believe in..

 

[BillG]

NOW there is a slanted, loaded question, probably based on the False Doctrine of the Oneness Pentecostal Church.



Here is why both methods are CO-EQUALLY CORRECT:

Matthew 28:19-20 (CSBBible)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."


HE said to Teach them to observe everything He commanded; therefore that certainly includes Verse 19. He did not command to BAPTIZE in the NAMES (PLURAL). Therefore the NAME (SINGULAR) IS CORRECTLY PRINTED the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit WITH NO COMMA'S, BECAUSE THE THREE ARE ONE GOD, NOT THREE GODS.


Colossians 2:9 (NIV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,


2 Corinthians 5:19 (ASV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

John 14:9-10 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, “Have I been among you all this time without your knowing Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I speak to you I do not speak on My own. The Father who lives in Me does His works.


John 14:16-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor{Comforter} to be with you forever.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is the Spirit of truth. The world is unable to receive Him because it doesn’t see Him or know Him. But you do know Him, because He remains with you and will bein you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you.


Romans 8:10-11 (ASV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwelleth in you, he that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead shall give life also to your mortal bodies through his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


SEE IT, THE THREE ARE ONE GOD. The Fullness of DEITY, the only real DEITY THAT EXISTS, Dwells in JESUS, without CEASING TO BE OMNIPRESENT. THEREFORE it is CORRECT to Baptize in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, AND it is EQUALLY CORRECT to Baptize in the in the name of Jesus Christ. HE IS THE SUM TOTAL OF ALL THAT HE IS, EITHER WAY.

Whats the Oneness Pentecostal Church and their core belief?

Keep it simple for this simple man

 

[TruthTalk]

A Simple Explanation of Monergism
by John Hendryx

Monergism simply means that it is God who gives ears to hear and eyes to see. It is God alone who gives illumination and understanding of His word that we might believe; It is God who raises us from the dead, who circumcises the heart; unplugs our ears; It is God alone who can give us a new sense that we may, at last, have the moral capacity to behold His beauty and unsurpassed excellency.

Definition:
The Century Dictionary's definition of monergism may be helpful:

"In theology, [monergism is] the doctrine that the Holy Spirit is the only efficient agent in regeneration [the new birth] - that the human will possesses no inclination to holiness until regenerated [born again], and therefore cannot cooperate in regeneration."
​

Application:
Monergism strips us of all hope to ourselves, reveals our spiritual bankruptcy apart from Christ, and thus leads us to give all glory to God alone for our salvation. As long as we think we contributed something, even a little bit (like good intentions) then we still think deep down that God saves us for something good he sees in us over our neighbor. But this is clearly not the case.

Only Jesus makes us to differ from anyone else. We are all sinners and can boast in nothing before God, including the desire for faith in Christ (Phil 1:29, Eph 2:8, 2 Tim 2:25).

Conclusion: "...no one can say, 'Jesus is Lord', except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Corinthians 12:3) . ...who is the deposit guaranteeing what is to come (2 Corinthians 5:5). Thus it should become plain to us that not everyone receives this redemptive blessing from Christ. God bestows it mercifully on whom He will according to His sovereign good pleasure (Rom 9:15-18; Eph 1:4, 5).

That is why it is called "mercy" - not getting what we deserve. If God were obligated to give it to all men then, by definition, it would not longer be mercy. This should not surprise us ... what should surprise us is God's amazing love, that He would save a sinner like me at all.

Attribution: https://www.monergism.com

 

[PeterJens]

Well from what I can gather of your posts you say things like,"the present believer" and other such phrases indicating that you believe one can lose salvation and thereby must maintain one's own salvation,but I have a more simplistic question,"can someone believe wholly upon Jesus and then later on not believe upon him at all"?
and to be clear I said believe upon not believe in,two different phrases with different meanings.

There is a logical step you have placed in your argument. If you can lose something you need to maintain
it. To lose something is to no longer have it. Losing things can be for two reasons. The object moves
or you move. If the issue of loss is about us moving, then it is an active thing. You do not lose something
necessarily but staying were you are.

 

[preacher4truth]

A Simple Explanation of Monergism
by John Hendryx

Monergism simply means that it is God who gives ears to hear and eyes to see. It is God alone who gives illumination and understanding of His word that we might believe; It is God who raises us from the dead, who circumcises the heart; unplugs our ears; It is God alone who can give us a new sense that we may, at last, have the moral capacity to behold His beauty and unsurpassed excellency.

Definition:
The Century Dictionary's definition of monergism may be helpful:

"In theology, [monergism is] the doctrine that the Holy Spirit is the only efficient agent in regeneration [the new birth] - that the human will possesses no inclination to holiness until regenerated [born again], and therefore cannot cooperate in regeneration."
​

Application:
Monergism strips us of all hope to ourselves, reveals our spiritual bankruptcy apart from Christ, and thus leads us to give all glory to God alone for our salvation. As long as we think we contributed something, even a little bit (like good intentions) then we still think deep down that God saves us for something good he sees in us over our neighbor. But this is clearly not the case.

Only Jesus makes us to differ from anyone else. We are all sinners and can boast in nothing before God, including the desire for faith in Christ (Phil 1:29, Eph 2:8, 2 Tim 2:25).

Conclusion: "...no one can say, 'Jesus is Lord', except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Corinthians 12:3) . ...who is the deposit guaranteeing what is to come (2 Corinthians 5:5). Thus it should become plain to us that not everyone receives this redemptive blessing from Christ. God bestows it mercifully on whom He will according to His sovereign good pleasure (Rom 9:15-18; Eph 1:4, 5).

That is why it is called "mercy" - not getting what we deserve. If God were obligated to give it to all men then, by definition, it would not longer be mercy. This should not surprise us ... what should surprise us is God's amazing love, that He would save a sinner like me at all.

Attribution: https://www.monergism.com

NAILED THE GOSPEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TruthTalk]

NAILED THE GOSPEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've read John Hendryx in the past, he is a trust worthy theologian. Gee doesn't time fly when you're having so much fun in God's Kingdom. There are a lot of "distractions" going on in this thread.....

 

[TruthTalk]

NAILED THE GOSPEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Plus I get so tired of Phart's "Pancake Theology" because he keeps flip flopping on all of his statements. He wants you to believe this, don't believe that, sit down, stand up, you have to do back flips just to understand his fake gospel.

 

[preacher4truth]

I've read John Hendryx in the past, he is a trust worthy theologian. Gee doesn't time fly when you're having so much fun in God's Kingdom. There are a lot of "distractions" going on in this thread.....

Unfortunately in the rejection of enduring sound doctrine, people don't want theologians any longer who disseminate truth, they want their personal experiences, trips to heaven, dreams, visions, premonitions and their lie that god spoke to the personally "thus and so." These rarely crack open the Bible, unless it is to appear "spiritual" and to tell others they've done so, nor do they fall under any God ordained authorities up to and including any local church attendance. 1 John 2:19 is in order. We are living among many apostates.

 

[VCO]

Whats the Oneness Pentecostal Church and their core belief?

Keep it simple for this simple man

They worship ONLY JESUS, and they claim the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity is as lie.

 

[loveme1]

Matthew 28

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.






Let us observe all things Taught by the Messiah and put aside theology.... the Messiah taught His disciples so that they could teach us.. through the Word.. through the New Testament.

If you have Faith you have His good works to do... that is what you are saved unto.....

Titus 3

3For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.







What good works should those that believe GOD be careful to maintain? The Lord's Testament gives us plenty of instruction the Royal Law.. let us be doers.. Faith that worketh by love.

We know we are Justified by GOD's Grace no boasting.. all Glory to the Almighty GOD and His Perfect Son our Lord.


Washed and regenerated by His mercy through our Saviour... let us not defile our garment... but be counted worthy to walk in white with Him.

Blessed indeed.

 

[dcontroversal]

You have yet to explain why it is that when you say 'I' should trust Jesus it isn't a self righteous 'ME' gospel, but when I tell people to trust God now all of a sudden it's a 'ME' gospel that's all about the person and not Jesus.

As a Calvinist, shouldn't you NOT be telling 'ME' to believe since it's up to God if he's going to do my believing and keep doing my believing for me? Seriously, why are you telling ME to trust Jesus when you have been repeatedly saying that if 'I' do the believing that's me trying to earn my own salvation? Shouldn't you, as a Calvinist, just keep quiet and just leave it up to God as to whether or not he's going to do my trusting for me?

This is a serious post. DO NOT BLOW IT OFF. If you are a teacher you HAVE to explain this duplicity. If nothing else, at least you should take ownership of it.

I have numerous times and yet a hoop jumping you will still do.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Sorry man, You can not say this, and then say you can lose it. based on something you did (or did not do) that is not trust in God that is trust in self.

More double talk or is it triple, quadruple talk with lemon twists....

 

[dcontroversal]

What makes you think you can keep the commands, and what makes you think that could keep you saved?

Break the least and guilty of the whole for sure.....the law proves our guilt and points to the only cure....Jesus!

 

[dcontroversal]

If you do not keep all His commandments,you’ll never get to see Him. For he said “if you love Me you’ll keep my commandments.

Sorry....your view does not make the cut....the law deems the whole world in guilt and shuts every mouth "Romans"....the righteouses of Christ is applied and imputed by faith void of any works of the law!

 

[jaybird88]

What makes you think you can keep the commands, and what makes you think that could keep you saved?

EZ 18 21
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

 

[loveme1]

EZ 18 21
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

We are to Repent and believe.. Alive in Christ to do good works ordained by GOD.

 

[loveme1]

The nothing we do changes our Imputed Righteousness is not a circumcised heart attitude.. for the Children of GOD Love their Heavenly Father and their Lord and Saviour and that Love shown grows through Faith.. and the disobedient are by GOD's Grace obedient through Faith that worketh by Love.

Christ is the author of our eternal Salvation to those that obey Him.. for this is what it means by the Just shall live by Faith...