Update on Todd Bentley (Lakeland Revival)

[roaringkitten]

It's pretty obvious that you and Roaring Kitten both share the same belief system.

Instead of making statements that dont help the situation, you could have responded to my comment about the Holy Ghost and His attributes. Let me post this one verse again:

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

Tell me that the Holy Spirit told ANYONE to punch someone in the face to heal them, in light of Scriptures such as these....satan has done a good job blinding people to lies.....Why else does Jesus WARN us about false prophets and teachers?

 

[roaringkitten]

Which is why I made a thread explaining from the Word about charismatic people attributing things to the Holy Ghost.

 

[BLC]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Baptistrw,[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Let's get this straight. You have determined that Mr. Bentley is an unsaved man. You have accused him (along with his ministry) of being heretics that preach lies and all kinds of false doctrine and brings in ****able heresies, that blasphemes the word of God and the Holy Spirit. You have judged that they are not a soul winning ministry and have lied about that and have never preached the gospel in any of their meetings. You have declared that they are a Satanic counterfeit ministry, which includes all those that are part of it, who have led millions astray. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]You have consider what they do as unfruitful works of darkness, and accused Mr. Bentley as bring forth evil fruit (rotten to the core). You have also determined that he in unqualified as a pastor, or to hold any office in the church, because he was a child molester as a teenager. These are the charges and accusations that you are bringing against this man, his ministry and others that are associated with it. That is about (14) charges. I hope that I did not miss anything.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I wander if you have the intestinal fortitude to make these charges face to face. You have no problem making these accusation from afar, but to go to them alone and tell them what concerns you is not in your interest. What does that make you? I'll let others decide. They have not denied you but you have not only denied them but have rejected them and branded them as heretics, warning all believers to have no fellowship with them. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Have you proven all of these things so that you can hold fast to that which is good? Have you tried the spirits to see if they are of God? And if you have done these two things, why don't you share with all of us how you did that? If an evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit, what is the good fruit you have brought forth, from the good tree that you claim to be of? By their fruit you shall know them, so what is your fruit so we can know what tree you are of?[/FONT]

 

[roaringkitten]

Again, I will ask.....Where is Todd Bentley's statements of what he believes concerning salvation? I want a link directly showing me what he believes regarding the gospel.

 

[Baptistrw]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Baptistrw,[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Let's get this straight. You have determined that Mr. Bentley is an unsaved man. You have accused him (along with his ministry) of being heretics that preach lies and all kinds of false doctrine and brings in ****able heresies, that blasphemes the word of God and the Holy Spirit. You have judged that they are not a soul winning ministry and have lied about that and have never preached the gospel in any of their meetings. You have declared that they are a Satanic counterfeit ministry, which includes all those that are part of it, who have led millions astray. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]You have consider what they do as unfruitful works of darkness, and accused Mr. Bentley as bring forth evil fruit (rotten to the core). You have also determined that he in unqualified as a pastor, or to hold any office in the church, because he was a child molester as a teenager. These are the charges and accusations that you are bringing against this man, his ministry and others that are associated with it. That is about (14) charges. I hope that I did not miss anything.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I wander if you have the intestinal fortitude to make these charges face to face. You have no problem making these accusation from afar, but to go to them alone and tell them what concerns you is not in your interest. What does that make you? I'll let others decide. They have not denied you but you have not only denied them but have rejected them and branded them as heretics, warning all believers to have no fellowship with them. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Have you proven all of these things so that you can hold fast to that which is good? Have you tried the spirits to see if they are of God? And if you have done these two things, why don't you share with all of us how you did that? If an evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit, what is the good fruit you have brought forth, from the good tree that you claim to be of? By their fruit you shall know them, so what is your fruit so we can know what tree you are of?[/FONT]

If I met this guy, I definitely would. And about the passage I quoted, take that up with God, he said it, not me. When a guy teaches false doctrine publicly it needs to be addressed publicly, it is not an offense to a single person but to the whole body of Christ.

The way to prove all things is by the Scriptures, if it doesn't agree with the Word, dismiss it. My fruit? Earnestly contending for the faith which was once [for all] delivered unto the saints.(Jude 3) Not aligning myself with cultic heresies based on heresies, but teaching and preaching the Word not mans opinion or subjective experience as the manner of some is.

 

[roaringkitten]

Isaiah 8:20 is the perfect verse....
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20

What baptistrw said was absolutely correct based on the Word.

 

[BLC]

If I met this guy, I definitely would. And about the passage I quoted, take that up with God, he said it, not me. When a guy teaches false doctrine publicly it needs to be addressed publicly, it is not an offense to a single person but to the whole body of Christ.

The way to prove all things is by the Scriptures, if it doesn't agree with the Word, dismiss it. My fruit? Earnestly contending for the faith which was once [for all] delivered unto the saints.(Jude 3) Not aligning myself with cultic heresies based on heresies, but teaching and preaching the Word not mans opinion or subjective experience as the manner of some is.

Then all the charges and accusations that you have made are justified, and you have built up the body of Christ and glorified God by contending for the faith and that is your fruit. You are confident that you have done the right thing and that all your conclusions are right on with the scriptures. BRAVO!

 

[Baptistrw]

Then all the charges and accusations that you have made are justified, and you have built up the body of Christ and glorified God by contending for the faith and that is your fruit. You are confident that you have done the right thing and that all your conclusions are right on with the scriptures. BRAVO!

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and by plain reason and not by Popes and councils who have so often contradicted themselves, my conscience is captive to the word of God. To go against conscience is neither right nor safe. I cannot and I will not recant. Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me.--Martin Luther

 

[BLC]

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and by plain reason and not by Popes and councils who have so often contradicted themselves, my conscience is captive to the word of God. To go against conscience is neither right nor safe. I cannot and I will not recant. Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me.--Martin Luther

When you have made so many accusations and charges against others, instead of quoting from another source, it would have been better for you to speak for yourself because you will have to give a personal account of all this before God. I hope that you are confident that in doing this you are prepared to present yourself blameless (2Pt 3:14, 1Thes 5:21-23). I will be anxious to see how the LORD Jesus Christ tries your work by fire and rewards you according to your doings (2Cor 5:10). We will talk again if God permits.

 

[Miah45]

EVERYONE

THANK YOU FOR BEING A PART OF THIS THREAD, THIS CLEARLY HAS BEEN A GREAT LITMUS TEST FOR US AS BELIEVERS ON HOW WE WILL RESPOND TO FUTURE SITUATIONS LIKE THIS.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR TIME, THOUGHTS AND ENERGIES.

DON'T FORGET TO LOVE EACH OTHER... SO THAT THEY KNOW WE'RE CHRISTIANS.

THANKS AGAIN.

 

[BLC]

EVERYONE

THANK YOU FOR BEING A PART OF THIS THREAD, THIS CLEARLY HAS BEEN A GREAT LITMUS TEST FOR US AS BELIEVERS ON HOW WE WILL RESPOND TO FUTURE SITUATIONS LIKE THIS.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR TIME, THOUGHTS AND ENERGIES.

DON'T FORGET TO LOVE EACH OTHER... SO THAT THEY KNOW WE'RE CHRISTIANS.

THANKS AGAIN.

There was lots of heated discussion, some off topic and some that made a difference. When it comes to sin it is always better to let the believer, who has access to God, confess his sin and be restored by God's grace. When we repeat matters of sin, there are those that are just waiting to jump all over it. Even though it may reveal their hearts, love covers (hides and hinders the knowledge of) a multitude of sin. The tongue is a little member that can boast great things when it is set on fire of hell. But the tongue can also be that of silver, that redeems and restores with mercy and truth. In all matters of sin we are to be meek, patience, gracious, forgiving and walking in wisdom. We are not to condemn, slander, malign or get involved in a matter that is none of our business. We are to forgive as we have been forgiven for Christ's sake. Whether a servant stands or falls before their Master, He is able to make them stand, and stand they will? Love hopes all things, bears all things, edures all things and believes all things. Love never is unkind, thinks no evil, rejoices not in iniquity but in the truth and never fails. Remember this;

1John 3:14-16 'We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren'.

 

[imoss]

There was lots of heated discussion, some off topic and some that made a difference. When it comes to sin it is always better to let the believer, who has access to God, confess his sin and be restored by God's grace. When we repeat matters of sin, there are those that are just waiting to jump all over it. Even though it may reveal their hearts, love covers (hides and hinders the knowledge of) a multitude of sin. The tongue is a little member that can boast great things when it is set on fire of hell. But the tongue can also be that of silver, that redeems and restores with mercy and truth. In all matters of sin we are to be meek, patience, gracious, forgiving and walking in wisdom. We are not to condemn, slander, malign or get involved in a matter that is none of our business. We are to forgive as we have been forgiven for Christ's sake. Whether a servant stands or falls before their Master, He is able to make them stand, and stand they will? Love hopes all things, bears all things, edures all things and believes all things. Love never is unkind, thinks no evil, rejoices not in iniquity but in the truth and never fails. Remember this;

1John 3:14-16 'We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren'.

I totally agree with this. My passion was with the actions that offend the Holy Spirit being passively accepted by Christians in the name of the Holy Spirit. I am PERSONALLY connected to Freshfire by way of my uncle who's ministry was going to be under the Freshfire authority. It was in this room that I found out more about Todd Bentley. NOTE I am on the board of Directors for this Ministry. I've learnt a huge lesson, not to just look at the intent/mission of the individual spearheading the Ministry but also look to where the instruction in the Lord is coming from and what else may be involved. This was in no way meant to be an attack on you Miah... I seriously stressed over this issue and how it effects someone who I know to be a dedicated Holy Spirit filled man of God. It also caused me to reflect on the Holy Spirit and his workings and if Satan could get involved MID Revival and throw a couple of kicks in. He most certainly is attacking and we need to be aware of this as Christians. If it doesnt line up with the Biblical then we definitely need to question it. Perhaps I'd be as staunch a supporter as you and my uncle if I'd witnessed the revival in full swing like you have. I'm thinking that hearing what went on I'm glad I wasnt there cause I dont EVER want to accept our Holy Spirit as being an abuser of people in the name of healing. God Bless you Miah, my rebuke was meant to be in caring not in judgement & I pray for my own discernment on all of these issues daily.

 

[jessie_devin]

I like penuts

 

[carpetmanswife]

I like penuts

boiled or roasted?

 

[BLC]

To Whom It May Concern

Intellectually, some professing believers are staunch adherents to the scriptures but their heart is not soft and fertile. The soft (not hardened) and fertile heart (good ground) receives the word of God and bears much fruit, some 30, 60, and some 100 fold (Mark 4:20), and identifies with the heart of the LORD that is meek and lowly (Mt 11:29). He remembers us in our low estate (Ps 136:32) and has asked us to do the same, through the inspired word (Rom 12:16) and to not be wise in our own conceits (opinions about others from a lofty place in your mind). Read (Eph 4:1-6).

Some use NT scriptures to keep the vail of the OT scriptures over their heart. They are blinded by that vail and have a ministry of condemnation in the dead letter of the law, even the law of the NT covenant. Read (Rom 7:6, 2Cor 3:6-18). They have not turned to the LORD to have the vail taken away and have the liberty of the Spirit, that would reveal to them the heart of God, which is the glory of God. They are always preaching repentance but never preaching the goodness of God's grace that would lead and give the guilty repentance (Rom 2:4, 2Tim 2:25). If we glory in the letter without the Spirit, the vail is still upon our heart. The glory and heart of the LORD is to be merciful and it endures to all generations (Ps 100:5).

For we have the sure mercies of David (Acts 13:34). These mercies are new every morning (Lam 3:22,23). We present our bodies before God according to these mercies, as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is our service (Rom 12:1). God will always without fail be merciful to our unrighteousness (Heb 8:12) by not remembering our sins and iniquities or bringing them up so that others can criticize. God's mercy does not condemn, but rather rejoices against judgment (James 2:13). If anyone judges his brother without mercy, he does not understand the heart and glory of God which is mercy, and has never turned unto the LORD to have the vail taken away. To this day they serve God with a vail over their heart.

This is a danger for a novice or for those who have not grown in grace and knowledge of the LORD Jesus Christ (2Pt 3:18), who have been put in a position of leadership or desire a leadership position (1Tim 3:1). The vail that remains over the heart causes the heart of the novice to be lifted up with pride and fall into the condemnation of the devil, that accuses and condemns the brethren day and night (Rev 12:10). This is a terrible trap for the novice because his heart is filled with pride and he is not able to receive grace from God (James 4:6, 1Pt 5:5).

 

[KingdomGeneration]

It's pretty obvious that you and Roaring Kitten both share the same belief system.

Instead of making statements that dont help the situation, you could have responded to my comment about the Holy Ghost and His attributes. Let me post this one verse again:

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

Tell me that the Holy Spirit told ANYONE to punch someone in the face to heal them, in light of Scriptures such as these....satan has done a good job blinding people to lies.....Why else does Jesus WARN us about false prophets and teachers?

So you want to judge the every charasmatic according to acts of one person? How am I or any other charasmatic responsible for what this man has done?

I'll be the first to admit there are charasmatics out there that take things too far. However, I think most will agree that there are people on your end of the spectrum that stretch things also (ie. Carnal Christianity - the concept that one doesn't need relationship with God to make it to heaven.)

Would it be fair that I condemned all Baptists for their beliefs because someone who professed to be "saved" according to your doctrine went on a murder spree then killed himself all the while believing he was going to heaven after doing so?

Get real people. I'm beginning to think your denominational biases are more along the lines of religious fanaticism.

 

[Baptistrw]

So you want to judge the every charasmatic according to acts of one person? How am I or any other charasmatic responsible for what this man has done?

I'll be the first to admit there are charasmatics out there that take things too far. However, I think most will agree that there are people on your end of the spectrum that stretch things also (ie. Carnal Christianity - the concept that one doesn't need relationship with God to make it to heaven.)

Would it be fair that I condemned all Baptists for their beliefs because someone who professed to be "saved" according to your doctrine went on a murder spree then killed himself all the while believing he was going to heaven after doing so?

Get real people. I'm beginning to think your denominational biases are more along the lines of religious fanaticism.

The Baptist church has produced fruit of righteousness, before the modern charismatic movement started the Baptist had been around for centuries. I dunno what type of Baptist church you're referring to about the no need for a relationship thing, but they are far off, and I've never heard of such a thing taught.

 

[Hitman]

Hi Miah!

This is my first post on ChristianChat. Good to see you buddy.

I watched the link you posted by Bill Johnson. I'm really glad that Todd has such awesome leaders helping him through the restoration process.

Todd was immature in many ways in his ministry. He became a Christian from a terrible background and because of his fantastic conversion story the church prematurely promoted him. What I liked best about Todd was his sincerity. How many people would punch an old lady in the face if they thought the Holy Spirit was telling them to? And how many church leaders would report a bizarre experience that they had trouble understanding themselves? But Todd would just go for it.

My prayer is that Todd will continue through the process of healing for himself and his family. I am also praying that God will bless his new marriage. And at some point in the future, I hope to see Todd reappear on the scene, perhaps gentler and wiser.

The real test of the Lakeland Revival and the embarrasing fall of Todd was the response of the other leaders. In 1994 we had an amazing outpouring in Toronto and then Brownsville that brought with it the restoration of the heart of God as a Father. Could it be that God was testing our leaders to see how they would respond to Todd's fall? Brothers are jealous and quick to point out faults. Fathers love and hope for the best. I think our leaders have proven that they learned the lesson of the last outpouring.

-Hitman

 

[Miah45]

Hi Miah!

This is my first post on ChristianChat. Good to see you buddy.

I watched the link you posted by Bill Johnson. I'm really glad that Todd has such awesome leaders helping him through the restoration process.

Brothers are jealous and quick to point out faults. Fathers love and hope for the best. I think our leaders have proven that they learned the lesson of the last outpouring.

-Hitman

Hitman!! Good to see you here at last!

(Without trying to keep this thread going)
I think you raised fantastic points that get to the real intent of the thread...

Loved what you said about Brothers and Fathers... reminded me a lot of King David and his brothers when he went down to slay Goliath..
you know how it is when one young man like David comes on the scene willing to have a go at slaying the Giants that we've all decided to live with...Cancer, Infirmities etc.. Oh how we wise older brothers love to chastise those young immature brothers for daring to look foolish!

Oh What was it about the place Ephes Dammim? Oh yeah .. it means on the edge of the blood... Isn't that where all the cool miracles take place, where only the courageous will leap to?

Lets hope we see more Father's like Bill... that won't be throwing spears in fits of rage at those God entrusted to them!






"Love... it covers a multitude of sins... Mercy ...somehow it triumphs over judgement"