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Romans 5
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
God love sinner
God die for us as when we were sinner, and still is. It mean HE LOVE SINNER
God die for us WHEN WE WERE His enemy, it mean God love His enemy/ sinner
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
God love sinner
God die for us as when we were sinner, and still is. It mean HE LOVE SINNER
God die for us WHEN WE WERE His enemy, it mean God love His enemy/ sinner
I never have liked this repeat after me garbage or if you wanna be saved raise your hand.....have seen personally how this is a joke and a failure......at age 7 in "childrens chapel" <--no such thing....wanna be saved raise your hand, repeat after me, boom saved, dunk and given a bible signed by the men's brotherhood........what a sad sad joke......!
Brother, you're so driven by you free will ideology, you're eisegesis shows in EVERY post you post. The context of your passage in the above just goes 'WOOOOOOOSH!' right past you.
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance;perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.[Romans 5:1-11]
Look at all those personal pronouns, 'we', 'us', & 'our'. That is who the Christ died for. In John 10 Jesus said He is the good Shepherd and the Shepherd lays His life down for His sheep. He didn't lay it down for goats. In John 17, Jesus didn't pray for the world, but for those the Father gave Him, and those who would believe their words. Ephesians 5:25 says the Christ gave His life for the ekklesia, the 'assembly', the 'body of called out ones'.
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance;perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.[Romans 5:1-11]
Look at all those personal pronouns, 'we', 'us', & 'our'. That is who the Christ died for. In John 10 Jesus said He is the good Shepherd and the Shepherd lays His life down for His sheep. He didn't lay it down for goats. In John 17, Jesus didn't pray for the world, but for those the Father gave Him, and those who would believe their words. Ephesians 5:25 says the Christ gave His life for the ekklesia, the 'assembly', the 'body of called out ones'.
Yes correct, when you choose to believe in Jesus, you can say things that include others who also believe, that why all the We We and We is being used, the author isn't excluding anyone who believes also in Jesus.
look At that part in red, I high lighted,
Through whom WE have now recieved reconciliation, that is not saying anything about predestined or chosen elect.
But of choosing for yourself to believe.
look At that part in red, I high lighted,
Through whom WE have now recieved reconciliation, that is not saying anything about predestined or chosen elect.
But of choosing for yourself to believe.
Who is Him in first12?
Jesus
let start read verse 11
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
He in verse 11 same as He in verse 12 and refer to Jesus
I don not know why you say those who receive Christ receive Him, what do you mean by Him?
and why you think these verse tell that they are that receive Jesus are predestined?
Jesus
let start read verse 11
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
He in verse 11 same as He in verse 12 and refer to Jesus
I don not know why you say those who receive Christ receive Him, what do you mean by Him?
and why you think these verse tell that they are that receive Jesus are predestined?
He came to His own and His own ddid not receive Him. But those did receive Him, He gave them the power(authority) to become the Sons of God. That's how verses 11 & 12 are laid out.
Now, who were the ones who received Him? Was it those who born of the blood(meaning being born a Jew)? No. Was it those who willed themselves(will of the flesh and/or man)? No. Or was it those who were born of God? Yes. Remember, the very same John wrote in 1 John 4:7 those who love God have been(already happened) born of Him.
Now, who were the ones who received Him? Was it those who born of the blood(meaning being born a Jew)? No. Was it those who willed themselves(will of the flesh and/or man)? No. Or was it those who were born of God? Yes. Remember, the very same John wrote in 1 John 4:7 those who love God have been(already happened) born of Him.
He love over when we are His enemy, mean he love a sinner, but not every sinner is child of God, only a sinner that accept Jesus
We not better than other, all of us are sinner, what make us better than other so God elect us? The different is we accept a His offer to receive Jesus. We use our free will to accept HIM
We not better than other, all of us are sinner, what make us better than other so God elect us? The different is we accept a His offer to receive Jesus. We use our free will to accept HIM
Why do I even bother!?!?!???
Brother, you're so driven by eisegesis!!
“I have revealed youto those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power ofyour name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe bythat name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.[John 17:6-19]
This 'High Priestly prayer' was for those who the Father had given to His Christ, and for those who would believe their words. This includes all who will believe. This is the epitome of predestination and election, two biblical doctrines you loathe.
Brother, you're so driven by eisegesis!!
“I have revealed youto those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power ofyour name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe bythat name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.[John 17:6-19]
This 'High Priestly prayer' was for those who the Father had given to His Christ, and for those who would believe their words. This includes all who will believe. This is the epitome of predestination and election, two biblical doctrines you loathe.
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You reverse the order brother, why you put verse 12 to 13
to me verse 12 say that to believer God give the power to be God child
and verse 13 refer to Jesus.
Jesus born not born of will of man/sex but of God. Mary pregnant not because sex, but of Spirit. These verse have nothing to do with predestination doctrine
to me verse 12 say that to believer God give the power to be God child
and verse 13 refer to Jesus.
Jesus born not born of will of man/sex but of God. Mary pregnant not because sex, but of Spirit. These verse have nothing to do with predestination doctrine
So you believe God play favor and you holiest than non elect before election don't you.
That boasting brother. Why He elect you but not him? You are sinner so does him.
that is my believe: I am a sinner,not better than every body, I hear the invitation.
Every sinner invited to believe in Him, and will be forgiven. I believe the invitation and chose to come. Than He (the inviter) forgive me. I am not special, I am not better than other, but I use my free will to chose to believe. I have no reason to boast.
The free will is a gift, so every body have access to salvation
the glory is belong to God who give access to a sinner like me and to all sinner a way of salvation.
That boasting brother. Why He elect you but not him? You are sinner so does him.
that is my believe: I am a sinner,not better than every body, I hear the invitation.
Every sinner invited to believe in Him, and will be forgiven. I believe the invitation and chose to come. Than He (the inviter) forgive me. I am not special, I am not better than other, but I use my free will to chose to believe. I have no reason to boast.
The free will is a gift, so every body have access to salvation
the glory is belong to God who give access to a sinner like me and to all sinner a way of salvation.