For Calvinists: Do you skip evangelizing because God chooses?

[Depleted]

Looks like you should have read his post before jumping right in and attacking others and calling them Arminians...You proved his point for him...Just saying..

Try again. That post explains why I keep calling you Arminian. If you ever get real, we can talk.

 

[Depleted]

Once a person hears the gospel, anyone can freely choose to believe it.

But we won't! John 3:19-20!

We do believe in choice. We simply know the choice is always the same until the Father wroughts.

And, because we can choose, guilt smacks us right upside the head and lands us in hell... unless, the Father wroughts!

 

[Depleted]

Its also given to fish. Do you have some idea what it can mean?

"And the dread and the fear of you shall be upon all the wild beasts of the earth, on all the birds of the sky, and on all things moving upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea..."

I could have eaten a lot my bass in my life?

(Or, fishing would have been a boring hobby. lol)

 

[Depleted]

The only think I see changed was that they were pushed out of the garden so they had to work for their food on the field.
And because they had no child before the fall, we do not know if it would be painless or if some fruit in the garden would content analgetics etc....

God was only describing their life outside of garden. Their future. It does not have to mean God created something new. They lived in a garden, isolated from the outside natural world.

Serpent loosing legs - serpent was satan, right? So we should be careful if God is talking about the animal species we call "snake" or if its about satan.

This is what God changed:
Gen. 3:14 [FONT=&quot]The [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot] God said to the serpent,[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]“Because you have done this,
cursed are you above all livestock
and above all beasts of the field;
on your belly you shall go,
and dust you shall eat
all the days of your life.
15 I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and her offspring;
he shall bruise your head,
and you shall bruise his heel.”[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 To the woman he said,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be contrary to your husband,
but he shall rule over you.”[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 And to Adam he said,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife
and have eaten of the tree
of which I commanded you,
‘You shall not eat of it,’
cursed is the ground because of you;
in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;
and you shall eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your face
you shall eat bread,
till you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
for you are dust,
and to dust you shall return.”[/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[1ofthem]

And I hope you get there soon. (Because what you're teaching isn't the straight and narrow. It's bunk that filtered through the church for centuries.)

Likewise my friend the same to you...

Oh and I really am not teaching anything here...just quoting the Bible...

 

[1ofthem]

Try again. That post explains why I keep calling you Arminian. If you ever get real, we can talk.

Ok if you say so...Just looked like you read his post and was trying to come up with some way to back peddle out of using the same straw man he was talking about...You know the old saying hindsight's 20 20...lol

But that was just my initial opinion....so to be fair, I'll just take your word for it...

 

[1ofthem]

Free will and choice saved you. I am assuming it's your will, not someone else's will, right? In which case, what I say is accurate. You chose to save yourself of your own free will. That's what it comes down to, when it's not God chooses.

This is why I cannot have an open conversation with you...I've been advised before to just put you on ignore...I have never put anyone on ignore so I do not want to do that.

It is God's will that all should come to repentance...What does that mean to you?

2 Peter 3:9
9 [FONT=&quot]The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[/FONT]1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Again what does this mean to you????

I mean if it's God will that I and everyone else be saved then who's fault is it if were not...Cause yeah it's God's will that all men be saved...

 

[Depleted]

This is why I cannot have an open conversation with you...I've been advised before to just put you on ignore...I have never put anyone on ignore so I do not want to do that.

It is God's will that all should come to repentance...What does that mean to you?

2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Again what does this mean to you????

I mean if it's God will that I and everyone else be saved then who's fault is it if were not...Cause yeah it's God's will that all men be saved...

Same game, same sword. On the one side, you're agreeing with NotMyOwn on this very thing, and on the other side, you're still arguing with me. I'm saying the same thing as NotMyOwn.

"ALL" ISN'T "EVERY SINGLE PERSON EVER" ALL THE TIME.

So whose fault is it some are saved? God's fault! And whose fault is it that not every single person is saved? God's fault!

What's the other choice? God really really wanted to but just couldn't? Why follow an imperfect, inept, wimpy god?

 

[Depleted]

Ok if you say so...Just looked like you read his post and was trying to come up with some way to back peddle out of using the same straw man he was talking about...You know the old saying hindsight's 20 20...lol

But that was just my initial opinion....so to be fair, I'll just take your word for it...

No, seriously. Try again. Go back and read it. I really am messing with you when I call you an Arminian, just as you're messing with me by blaming me on what Calvin did. See why I'm doing that, and maybe we can get over the stupid stuff and have a real conversation.

I'm annoyed, frustrated, and angry over how often people go with point-to-Calvin, when they couldn't give a damn about Calvin himself. Truthfully, the vast majority of "Calvinists" haven't read more then five sentences from Calvin. The guy was miles above our head, more educated, and quite a bit impetuous. (Last one might be telling, because I tend to distrust people too much like me. lol)

We're really not Calvinists anymore than you are Arminian. So really, go back and reread that like that's what I meant, and you'll see... that's what I meant!

I will continue to play this game until people get over pretending it's about Calvin though.

 

[1ofthem]

Same game, same sword. On the one side, you're agreeing with NotMyOwn on this very thing, and on the other side, you're still arguing with me. I'm saying the same thing as NotMyOwn.

"ALL" ISN'T "EVERY SINGLE PERSON EVER" ALL THE TIME.

So whose fault is it some are saved? God's fault! And whose fault is it that not every single person is saved? God's fault!

What's the other choice? God really really wanted to but just couldn't? Why follow an imperfect, inept, wimpy god?

You know what, I am a lot like you in some ways...I can be sarcastic and rude so I could set here and exchange jabs with you all day long. But what good is that going to do. I really am trying to censor myself and not just come off as a jerk...so God grant me the serenity...

I will say this, though, and then you can have it because I'm finished with it for the day....

No God is not a wimpy God...This shows how he set things up...He wants everyone to be saved but he is not forcing that upon anyone...He set this up from the beginning...When he gave Adam his command. It was Adam's choice to not obey God...Now we know God wasn't pleased with what Adam did...He called it sin, but he didn't step in and make Adam do what he said...just like he don't step in and make anyone accept him or follow his commands today. He set up "free will" or "free choice" or whatever you want to call it from the beginning and that theme continues all throughout the Bible. We could not save ourselves from sinning and that's why Jesus came...so that whosoever will believe upon him will be saved....It's a gift that we can accept or decline...But it's ultimately on us what decision we make...It's not God's will that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance

 

[oldethennew]

we, hub and me, 'believe that you are BOTH very, good, TEACHERS,
about many things...and we both 'really do' Love you BOTH!

 

[joefizz]

LOL... I think You just answered it for yourself..but I'll explain it the way I see it...no ones body is ever saved...Body and soul are two different things...the wages of sin is spiritual death...Everybody will physically die whether they sin or not. Hence, babies who have never sinned yet they still can die...

exactly,which is why I called Sovereign's post of,"the wages of sin is death" immature,because in our case unlike adam and eve we now can die both physically and spiritually,but the physical death occurs no matter a baby,sinning or not,spiritually a baby does not die because though it has sin(just learned in church babies do have sin just are not held accountable),babies and those who are unaccountable are attested for by God so the baby or others who cannot be held accountable (do not understand sin so cannot be held accountable)receive heaven due to God's attesting for them.(throwing out someone's claim that supposedly "God doesn't have any control over anyone's salvation,guess again God "Does"have control over one's salvation.

 

[shrume]

But we won't! John 3:19-20!

Johnb 3:
19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20) For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Not everyone always chooses to do evil. It is not evil to decide to believe the gospel, which anyone can choose to do.

We do believe in choice. We simply know the choice is always the same until the Father wroughts.

And, because we can choose, guilt smacks us right upside the head and lands us in hell... unless, the Father wroughts!

God does not determine whom He will save. He wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4).

 

[shrume]

Same game, same sword. On the one side, you're agreeing with NotMyOwn on this very thing, and on the other side, you're still arguing with me. I'm saying the same thing as NotMyOwn.

"ALL" ISN'T "EVERY SINGLE PERSON EVER" ALL THE TIME.

Yes it is.

So whose fault is it some are saved? God's fault! And whose fault is it that not every single person is saved? God's fault!

Neither are true.

God through Christ made salvation available to anyone. It's up to people to decide to believe.

What's the other choice? God really really wanted to but just couldn't? Why follow an imperfect, inept, wimpy god?

God will not override your free will.

 

[1ofthem]

we, hub and me, 'believe that you are BOTH very, good, TEACHERS,
about many things...and we both 'really do' Love you BOTH!

Thank you and I love and appreciate the both of you as well...

I have also read and seen many posts where I have been touched by Deplete's testimonies and some of her posts and threads...I guess, this area here is just one that we disagree butt heads on...and I hope I am using that word correctly because I'm definitely not referring to either one of us, her or me, as a butthead...lol

 

[shrume]

No, seriously. Try again. Go back and read it. I really am messing with you when I call you an Arminian, just as you're messing with me by blaming me on what Calvin did. See why I'm doing that, and maybe we can get over the stupid stuff and have a real conversation.

I'm annoyed, frustrated, and angry over how often people go with point-to-Calvin, when they couldn't give a damn about Calvin himself. Truthfully, the vast majority of "Calvinists" haven't read more then five sentences from Calvin. The guy was miles above our head, more educated, and quite a bit impetuous. (Last one might be telling, because I tend to distrust people too much like me. lol)

We're really not Calvinists anymore than you are Arminian. So really, go back and reread that like that's what I meant, and you'll see... that's what I meant!

I will continue to play this game until people get over pretending it's about Calvin though.

Yeah, it's not really about Calvin. It's about salvation and how a person gets saved.

But Calvinism is a convenient word to use. Nearly everyone knows what it means in the context of how we're using it here: that God determines who He will save and who He will not.

Calvinism is not true.

 

[shrume]

exactly,which is why I called Sovereign's post of,"the wages of sin is death" immature,because in our case unlike adam and eve we now can die both physically and spiritually,but the physical death occurs no matter a baby,sinning or not,spiritually a baby does not die because though it has sin(just learned in church babies do have sin just are not held accountable),babies and those who are unaccountable are attested for by God so the baby or others who cannot be held accountable (do not understand sin so cannot be held accountable)receive heaven due to God's attesting for them.(throwing out someone's claim that supposedly "God doesn't have any control over anyone's salvation,guess again God "Does"have control over one's salvation.

It was God's plan to make salvation available through Christ, and that has been accomplished.

What God does not control is a person's decision to accept or reject the gospel.

 

[1ofthem]

exactly,which is why I called Sovereign's post of,"the wages of sin is death" immature,because in our case unlike adam and eve we now can die both physically and spiritually,but the physical death occurs no matter a baby,sinning or not,spiritually a baby does not die because though it has sin(just learned in church babies do have sin just are not held accountable),babies and those who are unaccountable are attested for by God so the baby or others who cannot be held accountable (do not understand sin so cannot be held accountable)receive heaven due to God's attesting for them.(throwing out someone's claim that supposedly "God doesn't have any control over anyone's salvation,guess again God "Does"have control over one's salvation.

Thanks for the reply and thanks for sharing what you learnt in Church today. I definitely don't know it all, so I really appreciate when others share things like this with me. Gives me something to think about...So once again thanks...

God bless you and have a good day brother

 

[valiant]

This is why I cannot have an open conversation with you...I've been advised before to just put you on ignore...I have never put anyone on ignore so I do not want to do that.

It is God's will that all should come to repentance...What does that mean to you?

2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Again what does this mean to you????

I mean if it's God will that I and everyone else be saved then who's fault is it if were not...Cause yeah it's God's will that all men be saved...

if it is God's specific will why then are not all saved? We know that He can exert His will on anyone. Consider Paul. I am sure that if I saw Jesus risen I also would respond. Why then does God not do that?

 

[valiant]

Yeah, it's not really about Calvin. It's about salvation and how a person gets saved.

But Calvinism is a convenient word to use. Nearly everyone knows what it means in the context of how we're using it here: that God determines who He will save and who He will not.

But GOD says that we who are Christians are chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, that our names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. Seems pretty clear to me. I go with God.