Not By Works

[loveme1]

Hi Blue,

I was in the thread when Fran was banned. I saw her posts, that's why I said I think she felt ganged up on. What does one do when they are ganged up on. They throw the lot of those on top of them off so that they can breathe and don't get crushed from the weight of it all.

I didn't read her saying that, but yeah, that's serious. But was she banned for that one comment or for the whole of her posts right before she got banned. We just don't know. Maybe she was talked to and asked to stop and she was unwilling. We just don't know, but my guess is that those who are banned are warned and given the opportunity to change. But I'm speculating here and we all are because we're not the moderator who booted the person out. When I see how long it takes sometimes for people to be banned, I'm sure that the moderators here ere on the side of kindness, love and patience.

But again, it's still wrong to compare another person to a banned person. Even if you believe that you should keep it to yourself. I'm surprised that you don't see this. You call Fran nasty and then say that loveme1 is probably a nice person. And you're comparing the two as the same?

Ask yourself if comparing loveme1 to Fran out loud to the world of CC and beyond is loving, kind, gentle or patient? Love doesn't dishonor others, it's not easily angered and it doesn't keep a record of wrongs.

Do you consider her a sister in the Lord? Correct her in love - show scriptures for her error.
Do you consider her an enemy of the cross? Love her into the kingdom.

But don't attack the person.

And consider.......does anyone of us have all of the truth? Can we be in error? Are we teachable? Can God use someone here to help us see the light of truth more clearly?

And again, let's say we are right on any given topic.......how can we help someone see the truth? What scripture might help them? In what way can I help? Are we praying for those we think are in error. Is our motivation love?

Thank you Desertsrose and take your post to humble myself and make sure my intent is Love at all times also.

 

[UnderGrace]

Thats how I would spell it but am getting quite forgetful as I get older. UG can help. Where is she by the way?

LOL..... well oughta is not a word, it should be ought to

Remember right mouse click brings up spell checkBack to work and life is once again busy...but I have been reading along thoughon occasionwondering if Phart finally says wow "I was once blind now I see"...I am still hopeful

 

[BillG]

It is there.. and I need not keep repeating what you would find if you seek.

Hi loveme1.

I hope all is well with you.

Muzungu256 has asked where concerning the teaching of Jesus about the sabbath in the NT.

To me it seems that he hasn’t seen as you do and any verses that correlate to your thoughts.

It may be helpful to expand your thoughts and what bible verses and your interpretation of them that has led you to believe this and post your thoughts.

As you have said you are here to share.

If I have missed posts where you have done this then please forgive me.

As for me

Mark 2:23-28
Jesus Is Lord of the Sabbath
23 Now it happened that He went through the grainfields on the Sabbath; and as they went His disciples began to pluck the heads of grain. 24 And the Pharisees said to Him, “Look, why do they do what is not lawful on the Sabbath?”
25 But He said to them, “Have you never read what David did when he was in need and hungry, he and those with him: 26 how he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the showbread, which is not lawful to eat except for the priests, and also gave some to those who were with him?”
27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”


Mark 3:1-6
Chapter 3
Healing on the Sabbath
1 And He entered the synagogue again, and a man was there who had a withered hand. 2 So they watched Him closely, whether He would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse Him. 3 And He said to the man who had the withered hand, “Step forward.” 4 Then He said to them, “Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they kept silent. 5 And when He had looked around at them with anger, being grieved by the hardness of their hearts, He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched it out, and his hand was restored as whole as the other. 6 Then the Pharisees went out and immediately plotted with the Herodians against Him, how they might destroy Him.

Are you trying to convey the above verses?

 

[dcontroversal]

Faith was also required in the times of Abraham and Moses...and we know none are righteous that they can enter on their own merits. Yet you said "faith and works don't mix' "now you say works are the outflowing of faith" which is it?

Well this is what Yahshua/Jesus says in the final Revelation to mankind;

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושע Messiah."


Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.”

And Abraham was declared righteous without the deeds/works of the law! As a matter of fact....the law was not even given until well after Abraham's death right???

 

[loveme1]

I never said that the Greek word does not promote do, yet as I pointed out, we are not sinless and perfect in keeping the Commandments. Are you trusting in your best efforts to obey ALL 10 Commandments in order to obtain eternal life? How do you go about keeping the Sabbath Day holy, as outlined in the Mosaic Law?

BTY - All of the Ten Commandments are repeated under the New Covenant, except for the command to keep the Sabbath.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

So the Messiah's Testament is not to be believed? you are teaching the Commandments as being affirmed in those verses you share... yet the Messiah teaching you to Keep even the least you will not believe.. yet The Greatest Commandment is to Love GOD and GOD states those that Love Him Keep His Commandments... why would we not delight that Sabbath was made for man and it is lawful to do good.. knowing that it is a Blessing in a Blessing.. and being under Grace at Liberty we can Love and obey.. for all things are through Faith when we believe and there is no condemnation for we that are in Christ who walk after the Spirit. The Spirit of life indeed.

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”[/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

And Abraham was declared righteous without the deeds/works of the law! As a matter of fact....the law was not even given until well after Abraham's death right???

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 35:2, “Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]How did he know it was wrong when there was no law written not to have idols or other gods? there are other laws in Genesis showing they knew the law before written down.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 26:5, “Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my (H8451) Laws.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Laws” is word #HH8451- [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]תּרה תּורה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], tôrâh tôrâh, to-raw', to-raw', From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So according to this Abraham kept the Torah/Law and to argue with that is to argue with the written word is it not?[/FONT]


Also the Law of the Most High was before Abraham:

7:2, "“Of all the clean beasts take with you seven pairs, a male and his female; and of the beasts that are unclean two, a male and his female;"

 

[loveme1]

Hi loveme1.

I hope all is well with you.

Muzungu256 has asked where concerning the teaching of Jesus about the sabbath in the NT.

To me it seems that he hasn’t seen as you do and any verses that correlate to your thoughts.

It may be helpful to expand your thoughts and what bible verses and your interpretation of them that has led you to believe this and post your thoughts.

As you have said you are here to share.

If I have missed posts where you have done this then please forgive me.

As for me

Mark 2:23-28
Jesus Is Lord of the Sabbath
23 Now it happened that He went through the grainfields on the Sabbath; and as they went His disciples began to pluck the heads of grain. 24 And the Pharisees said to Him, “Look, why do they do what is not lawful on the Sabbath?”
25 But He said to them, “Have you never read what David did when he was in need and hungry, he and those with him: 26 how he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the showbread, which is not lawful to eat except for the priests, and also gave some to those who were with him?”
27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”


Mark 3:1-6
Chapter 3
Healing on the Sabbath
1 And He entered the synagogue again, and a man was there who had a withered hand. 2 So they watched Him closely, whether He would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse Him. 3 And He said to the man who had the withered hand, “Step forward.” 4 Then He said to them, “Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they kept silent. 5 And when He had looked around at them with anger, being grieved by the hardness of their hearts, He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched it out, and his hand was restored as whole as the other. 6 Then the Pharisees went out and immediately plotted with the Herodians against Him, how they might destroy Him.

Are you trying to convey the above verses?

Hi Bill, Muz and I have conversed prior and I believe he will have seen me share throughout cc... I'm a known Sabbath Keeper to many who deem me a Pharisee somewhat.. now just before this post I replied to Mailman.. which holds what I believe..

If anyone can provide the Scripture that states the Sabbath is not to be Kept by those that Love GOD and state why the Messiah teaches us to Keep even the least Commandment if the Sabbath was not part of the New Covenant.

For my belief is shared and not enforced for all things come through Faith that worketh by love.

The saints Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Faith of Jesus.

Which shows that He taught them to the saints.

I have learnt that many Christians Believe 9 and have their beliefs... as I believe 10 and have my beliefs. I was taught to Keep and teach even the least and am doing so but certainly not acting outside of love.

 

[BillG]

Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."


Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”

Hi Hizikayh

Can I ask you to expand what it is you are trying to convey.

Ta

Bill

 

[Hizikyah]

Hi Hizikayh

Can I ask you to expand what it is you are trying to convey.

Ta

Bill

Yes of course.

So The entire nation had gone astray from the ways of Yah many times through history, when Yahshua came Israel was following man made religion, the Babylonian Talmud, in which people couldnt travel certian distances on Sabbath, but according to their man made non-sense, they could travel that distance, set their bed down, travel that distance again and set their lunch down and travel that distance again... Total non-sense, Yahshua was constantly teaching the proper way to walk in the Instructions of Yah, thus this is what He was doing concerning Sabbath, just like all His other teachings, teaching the proper way to love Yah and our neighbor. Yahshua constantly scolded the pharisees for keeping their own tradition and rejectiuing Yah's Laws.

 

[BillG]

Hi Bill, Muz and I have conversed prior and I believe he will have seen me share throughout cc... I'm a known Sabbath Keeper to many who deem me a Pharisee somewhat.. now just before this post I replied to Mailman.. which holds what I believe..

If anyone can provide the Scripture that states the Sabbath is not to be Kept by those that Love GOD and state why the Messiah teaches us to Keep even the least Commandment if the Sabbath was not part of the New Covenant.

For my belief is shared and not enforced for all things come through Faith that worketh by love.

The saints Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Faith of Jesus.

Which shows that He taught them to the saints.

I have learnt that many Christians Believe 9 and have their beliefs... as I believe 10 and have my beliefs. I was taught to Keep and teach even the least and am doing so but certainly not acting outside of love.

Thanks for responding.

To be honest I don’t know what your thoughts are concerning keeping the sabbath. In terms of one day set aside or every day.
In terms of the verses I posted to you it seems that Jesus did things on the sabbath(one day) that he was slated for. But he answered the accusations thrown at him.

It didn’t seem a problem to him to do stuff on the sabbath to prove a point as in Mark that he is the Lord of the sabbath but also to bring glory to God Also in Mark concerning healing.

I also look at the following

Romans 14:5-12


5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:
“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”
12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

God bless you

 

[BillG]

Yes of course.

So The entire nation had gone astray from the ways of Yah many times through history, when Yahshua came Israel was following man made religion, the Babylonian Talmud, in which people couldnt travel certian distances on Sabbath, but according to their man made non-sense, they could travel that distance, set their bed down, travel that distance again and set their lunch down and travel that distance again... Total non-sense, Yahshua was constantly teaching the proper way to walk in the Instructions of Yah, thus this is what He was doing concerning Sabbath, just like all His other teachings, teaching the proper way to love Yah and our neighbor. Yahshua constantly scolded the pharisees for keeping their own tradition and rejectiuing Yah's Laws.

Ta

I knew that and couldn’t believe how they twisted that.

Thanks for clarifying.

Much appreciated

 

[TruthTalk]

LOL..... well oughta is not a word, it should be ought to

Remember right mouse click brings up spell checkBack to work and life is once again busy...but I have been reading along thoughon occasionwondering if Phart finally says wow "I was once blind now I see"...I am still hopeful

Hi UnderGrace, "oughta" is considered "internet slang."

From Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English

oughta (ought·a) /ˈɔːtə $ ˈɒːtə / modal verb informal; a way of saying ‘ought to’

used especially in writing to show how it is pronounced by some people 'You oughta tell your mom.' ​

 

[UnderGrace]

Tis true,.... tis slang .......likely around before the internet... Popeye the cartoon comes to mind.

"why I oughta"

Hi UnderGrace, "oughta" is considered "internet slang."

From Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English

oughta (ought·a) /ˈɔːtə $ ˈɒːtə / modal verb informal; a way of saying ‘ought to’

used especially in writing to show how it is pronounced by some people 'You oughta tell your mom.'
​

 

[TrueHebrew3]

The only part of the law that was fulfilled was the law of sacrifice and any law that requires the death of a person, other than that what part of the law that can't be kept? What homosexuality, adultery, lying, stealing, hate, lust of the heart, wearing material that a 100% cotton or 100% linen in other words no mixed material. He said that His laws were not grievous. Please tell me what laws and commandments can't be kept?

 

[UnderGrace]

I'll let someone else respond to this

The only part of the law that was fulfilled was the law of sacrifice and any law that requires the death of a person, other than that what part of the law that can't be kept? What homosexuality, adultery, lying, stealing, hate, lust of the heart, wearing material that a 100% cotton or 100% linen in other words no mixed material. He said that His laws were not grievous. Please tell me what laws and commandments can't be kept?

 

[TrueHebrew3]

What is Grace? You guys are so limited when it comes to the word. Please explain Grace?

 

[Hizikyah]

Yahshua came to fulfill what the prophets of YHWH had spoken, to be the sinnless Passover Lamb.

To think that because He followed do not kill, I somehow dont have to is foolish. He was our example, we should do as He did.

Did He walk in His Fathers commands? Yes, and perfectly. Does this mean He was good for me so it dosent matter if im good or not... no.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 12:50, “For whoever does the desire of My Father who is in the heavens is My brother and sister and mother.”[/FONT]

 

[preacher4truth]

The only part of the law that was fulfilled was the law of sacrifice

More #fakenews.

You do err gravely in your false gospel. The Law is one Law, and all the Law was fulfilled by Christ.

You workers never fail to truncate and downgrade Christ and His finished work. Unreal. It is always about you, rarely if ever about Him. Of course the Holy Spirit will glorify only Him, so that gives an idea as to why so many others #fakenews fails to glorify him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The only part of the law that was fulfilled was the law of sacrifice and any law that requires the death of a person, other than that what part of the law that can't be kept? What homosexuality, adultery, lying, stealing, hate, lust of the heart, wearing material that a 100% cotton or 100% linen in other words no mixed material. He said that His laws were not grievous. Please tell me what laws and commandments can't be kept?

Moses stated after the ten commands wer given, and some other commands which were with them, that the nation was to confirm they would obey ever word written in the law.

Paul re-iterated that the fact we have not fulfilled that part of the requirement, we are under a curse. As he also said in romans 3, All have sinned and fall short.

So why would you follow a law which can only condemn you, And not follow Christ who gave his life to save you.