Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
My security is in christ,
'
1. What he did
2. What he promised
3. What I have
If that can be lost. Then I have no secuiry, if I have to rely on myself to continue to do something, I have no security. I am not trustworthy, Only God is.
Your security is in yourself. Not God. If your security was in God you would know he said whoever believes in him will never perish, never hunger never thirst, Never die, Live forever, and be risen on the last day.
He said he has Perfected me forever. As he continues the work of sanctifying me.,
If those things can be lost for any reason. God is a liar.
'
1. What he did
2. What he promised
3. What I have
If that can be lost. Then I have no secuiry, if I have to rely on myself to continue to do something, I have no security. I am not trustworthy, Only God is.
Your security is in yourself. Not God. If your security was in God you would know he said whoever believes in him will never perish, never hunger never thirst, Never die, Live forever, and be risen on the last day.
He said he has Perfected me forever. As he continues the work of sanctifying me.,
If those things can be lost for any reason. God is a liar.
P
Anything?
That is your erroneous and distorted understanding of Paul's 'works vs. faith' doctrine. Justification is not by 'nothing at all'. It is through believing, which he clearly contrasts with works. Believing is exactly what you 'do' to secure and keep salvation. You do not do nothing to be saved.
That is your erroneous and distorted understanding of Paul's 'works vs. faith' doctrine. Justification is not by 'nothing at all'. It is through believing, which he clearly contrasts with works. Believing is exactly what you 'do' to secure and keep salvation. You do not do nothing to be saved.
J
Glad to see you are so well read in the bible,and you make a good point,yes indeed obedience is part of our walk with Jesus for he is our master and saviour and we his servants,I'm not seeing why though that you get the impression that obedience is not what is apart of serving Jesus concerning other posters,has someone told you here that disobedience is not apart of doing right by Jesus,not hoping for names just wondering what it is you feel is lacking,please explainI will pay attention no matter what is said,I have the patience and the time.
P
Brokenness over sin is the sign of the true believer. Any doctrine of rationalizing and excusing sin in the name of grace hardly represents a humble, broken attitude about sin. I certainly do not subscribe to the fake humility of those doctrines. It's impossible to judge me for an attitude about sin I do not have.
Sabbath has always ben Saturday and always will be. Christians Worshiping on Sunday ARE NOT TRYING TO KEEP THE SABBATH BY CHANGING THE DAY. WE ARE WORSHIPING CHRIST ON A SUNDAY BECAUSE HE IS OUR RISEN LORD AND HE ROSE ON A SUNDAY. TRUE WORSHIP IS WHAT IS GOING ON IN ONE'S HEART, NOT WHERE AND WHEN YOU SITTING IN A PARTICULAR BUILDING, THEREFORE I TRULY WORSHIP HIM SEVEN DAYS A WEEK.
Romans 14:5-6 (ESV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.
My personal experience has been that the Sabbath Keepers get very exercised about our worshiping on Sunday, and falsely accuse us of Changing the Day of the Sabbath, almost ever time. We don't even think of Sunday as a form of keeping the Sabbath. That false idea is purely in the Suspicious Minds of Sabbath Keepers, in my opinion. It does not bother me if they want worship on Saturday, but when they say, and most do, insisting that I and all other Sunday Worshipers are not Right with God because we do not keep the Sabbath, I will refute that idea as False Teaching.
Romans 14:5-6 (ESV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.
My personal experience has been that the Sabbath Keepers get very exercised about our worshiping on Sunday, and falsely accuse us of Changing the Day of the Sabbath, almost ever time. We don't even think of Sunday as a form of keeping the Sabbath. That false idea is purely in the Suspicious Minds of Sabbath Keepers, in my opinion. It does not bother me if they want worship on Saturday, but when they say, and most do, insisting that I and all other Sunday Worshipers are not Right with God because we do not keep the Sabbath, I will refute that idea as False Teaching.
P
You personally may not know that the intent was to literally change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, but that is exactly what the church decided to do. Google it.
I can not count the number of times I have heard Christians refer to Sunday as the Sabbath. And I cringe every time I hear it.....I mean now that I know that the church's intent was to change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.
I can not count the number of times I have heard Christians refer to Sunday as the Sabbath. And I cringe every time I hear it.....I mean now that I know that the church's intent was to change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.
The fact that you compare the sealing of the Spirit with a bowl of lasagna and then state that you must keep yourself saved while disregarding the words and promises of Jesus = no value with any view you post.....and your last line reeks of ignorance to the max......We are born of incorruptible seed....and that which is born of God does not sin..
Your view blasphemes the Holy Spirit, states that the seed can be corrupted and denies the inspired words of JOHN....and I see your working for buddies like your falsehoods and anti-God cake taking heresies
Your view blasphemes the Holy Spirit, states that the seed can be corrupted and denies the inspired words of JOHN....and I see your working for buddies like your falsehoods and anti-God cake taking heresies
Because the SCRIPTURES SAY WE ARE ALL SINNERS DESPERATELY IN NEED OF A SAVIOR, and WE CANNOT SAVE OURSELVES. OUR OWN SINS, PERSONALLY PUT HIM ON THE CROSS.
Romans 3:9-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] What then? Are we any better? Not at all! For we have previously charged that both Jews and Gentiles are all under sin,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] as it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] All have turned away; all alike have become useless. There is no one who does what is good, not even one.
Romans 12:3 (ESV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.
Last edited:
P
And I understand perfectly that they sound like works righteousness arguments to you. But I assure you, they are not. The forgiveness of sin is the ONLY way to be made righteous before God. You can't work your way out of your sin debt.
The only way to erase the record of unrighteousness that we have in heaven is to believe that God will forgive it. You can't stop believing in the forgiveness of God and still be righteous before God. If you stop believing in the blood that makes you righteous in God's sight you won't have any sacrifice remaining to cover the sins you commit. That's hardly a works gospel.
Paul said nothing about believing being the vain attempt to earn you a declaration of right standing with God. Quite the opposite. He said believing is the very thing that you 'do' that makes you righteous before God. But the church has now decided that since it's something you 'do' it is you trying to save yourself. That's absurd.
This has nothing to do with works other than a return to unbelief will be signified by a willful return to a lifestyle of sin, just as a continued belief in Christ will be signified by an ever-increasing lifestyle of righteousness.
The only way to erase the record of unrighteousness that we have in heaven is to believe that God will forgive it. You can't stop believing in the forgiveness of God and still be righteous before God. If you stop believing in the blood that makes you righteous in God's sight you won't have any sacrifice remaining to cover the sins you commit. That's hardly a works gospel.
Paul said nothing about believing being the vain attempt to earn you a declaration of right standing with God. Quite the opposite. He said believing is the very thing that you 'do' that makes you righteous before God. But the church has now decided that since it's something you 'do' it is you trying to save yourself. That's absurd.
This has nothing to do with works other than a return to unbelief will be signified by a willful return to a lifestyle of sin, just as a continued belief in Christ will be signified by an ever-increasing lifestyle of righteousness.
Last edited:
J
"Believing is exactly what you do to secure and keep salvation".
"You do not do nothing to be saved"...........
So Jesus did nothing for us nor for you,through his deeds in life,being crucified,obtaining the keys of hell,resurrecting,and then ascending,so you don't serve Jesus,you still seek to serve God under only his law,that Jesus fulfilled and protected us from through his being crucified,so you are in a very problamatic situation for you seem to acknowledge Jesus but you don't accept his "good works"(Yes I said good works for him because as paul said "there is none that doeth good no not one" where as Jesus was God in the flesh so his works were good)
God did not come in flesh for people to claim that he did nothing for us as Jesus,such rebellion is to love the world and not God,for though I understand ye mean also that noone is to be idle when saved through Jesus alone,but how can ye be saved when you choose to "be alone",for how can one accept Jesus yet not be saved?
how can one work and declare unto God that they have done well when they have not accepted his son?
How can one make claims that one's works are good if only God has not sin?
How can one keep God's commandments when he hath knowledge beyond our comprehension,is it easy to do what orders God gives when he hath wise reasons for such commands?
How can one save thine self from hell and the lake of fire,seeing as that ye are not God?
Did it not repent God for making man for his generations were rebellious?
Whom is like unto God that they can be makers of their own salvation?
how long must one toil to have salvation seeing as that it is not of man but of God?
How can one be born again in Christ Jesus and no longer believe his promise of salvation?
What is belief in Jesus the only begotten son of God that one muses that it can be cast away from himself,is not he a new creature once he accepts him being baptized of the holy spirit?
Is it a mere manmade gift the holy spirit that it can be thrust from oneself?
Who hath not done wrong against the lord thine God that he has perfection let him stand before God that he may know that one is his equal though he be almighty and unequivocally knowledgeable.
Trust in Jesus the only begotten son of God for remember God's way is perfect and that way is Jesus.
"You do not do nothing to be saved"...........
So Jesus did nothing for us nor for you,through his deeds in life,being crucified,obtaining the keys of hell,resurrecting,and then ascending,so you don't serve Jesus,you still seek to serve God under only his law,that Jesus fulfilled and protected us from through his being crucified,so you are in a very problamatic situation for you seem to acknowledge Jesus but you don't accept his "good works"(Yes I said good works for him because as paul said "there is none that doeth good no not one" where as Jesus was God in the flesh so his works were good)
God did not come in flesh for people to claim that he did nothing for us as Jesus,such rebellion is to love the world and not God,for though I understand ye mean also that noone is to be idle when saved through Jesus alone,but how can ye be saved when you choose to "be alone",for how can one accept Jesus yet not be saved?
how can one work and declare unto God that they have done well when they have not accepted his son?
How can one make claims that one's works are good if only God has not sin?
How can one keep God's commandments when he hath knowledge beyond our comprehension,is it easy to do what orders God gives when he hath wise reasons for such commands?
How can one save thine self from hell and the lake of fire,seeing as that ye are not God?
Did it not repent God for making man for his generations were rebellious?
Whom is like unto God that they can be makers of their own salvation?
how long must one toil to have salvation seeing as that it is not of man but of God?
How can one be born again in Christ Jesus and no longer believe his promise of salvation?
What is belief in Jesus the only begotten son of God that one muses that it can be cast away from himself,is not he a new creature once he accepts him being baptized of the holy spirit?
Is it a mere manmade gift the holy spirit that it can be thrust from oneself?
Who hath not done wrong against the lord thine God that he has perfection let him stand before God that he may know that one is his equal though he be almighty and unequivocally knowledgeable.
Trust in Jesus the only begotten son of God for remember God's way is perfect and that way is Jesus.
