Not By Works

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"
[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

 

[dcontroversal]

The execution stake is but a piece of wood that the Savior Sacrificed upon, it is the blood that is the cure.

Yep and yet Paul said....If he was going to glory...he would glory in the cross of Christ.....what did the people have to look to when they griped and complained against MOSES in the wilderness? And then WHO makes the comparison and what do we LOOK back to in order to gain salvation...........sure his blood sprinkled on the mercy seat paid the debt.....but does it not say it was death that RATIFIED the New Covenant??

 

[PeterJens]

AMEN.....and a cross that does not still have JESUS hanging on it....................

Interesting point. As Christ gave His life for the forgiveness of sins as an eternal sacrifice,
His blood has eternal significance, and in a sense until judgement has fallen, He is on the
cross dying for all of us, forgiving our sins, as we confess and get them right with the Lord.

For those who feel that sin is just dealt with and not an issue, the cross is empty.
But that probably reflects the incorrect understanding of what the walk of sanctification is.

For many they already have arrived in heaven, with sin, imperfection and failure, and await
the magic wand of a new body that will rid them of their failures. Be a bit shocking when all
the unconfessed sin causes them to be thrown in the lake of fire.

There is no place in the Kingdom for open rebellion. There is a place for talking through the
issues and seeking Gods face, which cc is a good starting place. But many appear to be happy
to ignore Jesus and just take some odd preachers word for it that they are safe not obeying
Christ, and just believing everything is sorted.

 

[Hizikyah]

Yep and yet Paul said....If he was going to glory...he would glory in the cross of Christ.....what did the people have to look to when they griped and complained against MOSES in the wilderness? And then WHO makes the comparison and what do we LOOK back to in order to gain salvation...........sure his blood sprinkled on the mercy seat paid the debt.....but does it not say it was death that RATIFIED the New Covenant??

Numbers 21:7-9, “21:7, "Then the people came to Mosheh, and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against יהוה and against you. Pray to יהוה to take away the serpents from us.” So Mosheh prayed on behalf of the people. And יהוה said to Mosheh, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole. And it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live. So Mosheh made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole. And it came to be, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.”


2 Kings 18:4, “He took away the high places and broke the pillars, and cut down the Ashĕrah, and broke in pieces the bronze serpent which Mosheh had made, for until those days the children of Yisra’yl burned incense to it, and called it Neḥushtan.”

Hebrews 9:22, “And, according to the Torah, almost all is cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”

Shedding of blood, but yes one could easily and truthfully some sin requires death.

Hebrews 9:11-12, "9:11, "But Messiah, having become a High Priest of the coming good matters, through the greater and more perfect Tent not made with hands, that is, not of this creation, entered into the Most Set-apart Place once for all, not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood, having obtained everlasting redemption."

 

[Studyman]

That would certainly be one who has been Deceived into believing a False Gospel. That is most likely because he or she has a LACK of Total Trust that CHRIST SUFFICIENT, and that the Holy Spirit will empower us to hear with understanding, and do what we cannot.

TO GOD BE THE GLORY, not to self be the Glory.

We are not saved by Grace alone, but by Grace THROUGH FAITH. As it is written.

So what Faith? We are told there is only one faith and one law. Well I'm not going to answer this from my own mind, I'm going to let God's Word answer this question for me.

Gal. 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law(Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for remissions of sins.), but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,(His blood) and not by the works of the lawGoats blood as prescribed by the Levitical Priesthood) for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

So we are to have the "Faith of Christ" in order for God's Grace to justify us. The Bible teaches that Faith without works is DEAD, or no Faith at all. So what are the "WORKS" that showed Christ's Faith? Was it sprinkling the blood of goats to forgive sin? No, Jesus did have Works, but these were not part of them. He did Keep God's Sabbaths, He kept God's Holy Days, He followed other Commandments of God as well. These are the "Works" that showed the "Faith of Jesus". Jesus was a "Doer of God's Commandments, not a hearer only, therefore He didn't deceive Himself to believe He was following God when in fact He was following man made doctrines and traditions like the Mainstream Church that He rejected.

So if I am instructed to have the "Faith of Christ" for Grace to justify me, then I should "HEAR" His Words, and "DO" His Works.(Eat His Flesh, Drink His Blood)

This is why we are instructed to "Walk even as He walked".

This is not my doctrine or the tradition of any Mainstream Church, it is the conclusion one is led to when we consider EVERY WORD THAT PRODEEDS from the Word of God.

I am only making these posts out of Love of the Brethren.

 

[BillG]

We are not saved by Grace alone, but by Grace THROUGH FAITH. As it is written.

So what Faith? We are told there is only one faith and one law. Well I'm not going to answer this from my own mind, I'm going to let God's Word answer this question for me.

Gal. 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law(Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for remissions of sins.), but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,(His blood) and not by the works of the lawGoats blood as prescribed by the Levitical Priesthood) for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

So we are to have the "Faith of Christ" in order for God's Grace to justify us. The Bible teaches that Faith without works is DEAD, or no Faith at all. So what are the "WORKS" that showed Christ's Faith? Was it sprinkling the blood of goats to forgive sin? No, Jesus did have Works, but these were not part of them. He did Keep God's Sabbaths, He kept God's Holy Days, He followed other Commandments of God as well. These are the "Works" that showed the "Faith of Jesus". Jesus was a "Doer of God's Commandments, not a hearer only, therefore He didn't deceive Himself to believe He was following God when in fact He was following man made doctrines and traditions like the Mainstream Church that He rejected.

So if I am instructed to have the "Faith of Christ" for Grace to justify me, then I should "HEAR" His Words, and "DO" His Works.(Eat His Flesh, Drink His Blood)

This is why we are instructed to "Walk even as He walked".

This is not my doctrine or the tradition of any Mainstream Church, it is the conclusion one is led to when we consider EVERY WORD THAT PRODEEDS from the Word of God.

I am only making these posts out of Love of the Brethren.

I would say that grace alone saves but it’s the grace of God that brings us to faith.
Amazing grace that saves a wretch like me.

Not sure I get your point about “What is faith?
To me we are justified by faith alone and nothing else.
And yes genuine faith will produce works, I prefer fruit of the Spirit to be honest.

You say that God Jesus did keep God’s sabbaths and Holy days. Did he?

I ask this because what do we consider the sabbath to be? The sabbath that the Pharisees proclaimed or the sabbath that Jesus walked in?

I am not saying you do this but what really worries me is when we talk about works we can walk in the ways of don’t to and do do. I am not saying this is wrong per se but to me it is when it’s done in order to be rather than being and as a result of doing.

If we focus on doing in order to be then to me the bigger picture can me missed.
The bigger picture for me is relationship.

Jesus came to die for us, to forgive us of our sins that separates us from God.
Before the fall Adam and God had a relationship.

If we focus on doing rather than being then we can miss out on the relational ascpect.
Loved for who we are (his kids).
God healing our hearts of pain and anything that detracts from the relationship.

He doesn’t just want robots to do his will, he wants children to do his will.
In order to grow into his will he wants us to trust him for our welfare and wellbeing.
We can’t do that if we are too busy and saying “I ain’t got time I’m too busy doing your will”

What is more important to God? Relationship or works?
For me relationship then works follow.

 

[VCO]

We are not saved by Grace alone, but by Grace THROUGH FAITH. As it is written.

So what Faith? We are told there is only one faith and one law. Well I'm not going to answer this from my own mind, I'm going to let God's Word answer this question for me.

Gal. 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law(Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for remissions of sins.), but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,(His blood) and not by the works of the lawGoats blood as prescribed by the Levitical Priesthood) for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

So we are to have the "Faith of Christ" in order for God's Grace to justify us. . . .

Galatians 2:16 (ASV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (CSBBible)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] and yet because we know that a person is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we ourselves have believed in Christ Jesus. This was so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (NRSV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] yet we know that a person is justified not by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ. And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus, so that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by doing the works of the law, because no one will be justified by the works of the law.

Galatians 2:16 (ESV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (NIV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (GWT)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Yet, we know that people don't receive God's approval because of their own efforts to live according to a set of standards, but only by believing in Jesus Christ. So we also believed in Jesus Christ in order to receive God's approval by faith in Christ and not because of our own efforts. People won't receive God's approval because of their own efforts to live according to a set of standards.

Galatians 2:16 (NJB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] have nevertheless learnt that someone is reckoned as upright not by practising the Law but by faith in Jesus Christ; and we too came to believe in Christ Jesus so as to be reckoned as upright by faith in Christ and not by practising the Law: since no human being can be found upright by keeping the Law.


Sounds to me like you are unaware of the fact that the KJV is a Paraphrase of earlier English Translations to correct known errors, looks like you just found one they missed. They did not go back to the original language manuscripts to actually Translate the KJV, the Translation Team said so in their Original 1611 PREFACE. http://www.kjvbibles.com/kjpreface.htm


Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!




I guess you missed the part that proves that Faith is PART OF the FREE GIFT of GRACE. Surely you did not think it was something you reasoned out in your brain?


Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not from works, so that no one can boast.


Romans 4:16 (CSBBible)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] This is why the promise is by faith, so that it may be according to grace, to guarantee it to all the descendants??—??not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of Abraham's faith. He is the father of us all.


Romans 3:24 (CSBBible)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] They are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.


Romans 11:6 (ASV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.


1 Peter 5:10-12 (NKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] By Silvanus, our faithful brother as I consider him, I have written to you briefly, exhorting and testifying that this is the true grace of God in which you stand.

 

[Studyman]

I would say that grace alone saves but it’s the grace of God that brings us to faith.
Amazing grace that saves a wretch like me.

Not sure I get your point about “What is faith?
To me we are justified by faith alone and nothing else.
And yes genuine faith will produce works, I prefer fruit of the Spirit to be honest.

You say that God Jesus did keep God’s sabbaths and Holy days. Did he?

I ask this because what do we consider the sabbath to be? The sabbath that the Pharisees proclaimed or the sabbath that Jesus walked in?

I am not saying you do this but what really worries me is when we talk about works we can walk in the ways of don’t to and do do. I am not saying this is wrong per se but to me it is when it’s done in order to be rather than being and as a result of doing.

If we focus on doing in order to be then to me the bigger picture can me missed.
The bigger picture for me is relationship.

Jesus came to die for us, to forgive us of our sins that separates us from God.
Before the fall Adam and God had a relationship.

If we focus on doing rather than being then we can miss out on the relational ascpect.
Loved for who we are (his kids).
God healing our hearts of pain and anything that detracts from the relationship.

He doesn’t just want robots to do his will, he wants children to do his will.
In order to grow into his will he wants us to trust him for our welfare and wellbeing.
We can’t do that if we are too busy and saying “I ain’t got time I’m too busy doing your will”

What is more important to God? Relationship or works?
For me relationship then works follow.

The Pharisees were rejected for "Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men", not God. Not sure why people keep trying to Preach that they were obedient to God when Jesus clearly says they were not.

The very reason Jesus qualified to pay our debt is because He was obedient to God's laws. Not sure why people want to take this Glory away from Him.

We are warned about people claiming to be Christians using Gods Word to deceive us. Have you any evidence that Satan deceived folks into obeying God? Or are the example we are given for our admonition examples is Satan deceiving folks into disobedience?

being faithful is being faithful. Abraham was faithful. Jesus was faithful. These are my examples of what being faithful means, not the Pope or Jimmy swaggert

I think we need to ask ourselves a question. Do we follow a church that Transgresses the Commandments of God by man made traditions, or do we have the "Faith OF Jesus.

 

[Hizikyah]

The Pharisees were rejected for "Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men", not God. Not sure why people keep trying to Preach that they were obedient to God when Jesus clearly says they were not.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them:[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"[/FONT]
​

 

[VCO]

the saints Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Faith Jesus.. to believe is to hear and obey from the heart the Doctrine of Christ..

I is not what you says that makes it a misleading false statement, it is what you do not say.

In Rom. 5:5 we learn that the moment the Holy Spirit comes into our heart, HE POURS GOD'S LOVE IN OUR HEART. Obedience then spawns out of that LOVE, that is not of us. The way you word it, makes it sound like obedience spawns out of our human brains.

 

[Hizikyah]

the saints Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Faith Jesus.. to believe is to hear and obey from the heart the Doctrine of Christ..

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."


Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"


*Mosheh wrote:


Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"


"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}


Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)


Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey


John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Yah remains on him.”

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”[/FONT]

 

[VCO]

I believe my Lord and will by the power of GOD continue to believe.. GOD saves us through our Faith...no one comes to Father without believing in the Son..absolutely. Some of us believe that we are to Love and obey and others have their belief.. only GOD can set us apart.

Let me be the one at His feet weeping with Everlasting love and joy that He saved me who is the least of all... and if I be the last one through that gate then praise GOD forever who guided me Home.

Then you and I are in agreement.

I will tell you a true story of something that happened to me and my wife. Back in the earlier 80's, when we were searching for a very good Bible Teaching Church, in our town, the third largest in Nebraska, we tried a Baptist Church one Sunday morning. The Pastor had a guest Missionary from Africa give the Sermon. That Missionary's closing statement of his sermon was literally: "The reason I serve the LORD, is I want the biggest, fanciest Manson on the Street of Gold. I don't want to get stuck with a shack out back on the Crystal River." My mouth dropped open, HE DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE FIRST THING ABOUT WHY WE SERVE GOD. We serve, because we LOVE HIM. As we walked to car, knowing we would not be back, I told my wife, "I don't care if he gives me that shack on the River, I just want to be there with HIM, because I love HIM."

 

[VCO]

The Pharisees were rejected for "Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men", not God. Not sure why people keep trying to Preach that they were obedient to God when Jesus clearly says they were not.

The very reason Jesus qualified to pay our debt is because He was obedient to God's laws. Not sure why people want to take this Glory away from Him.

We are warned about people claiming to be Christians using Gods Word to deceive us. Have you any evidence that Satan deceived folks into obeying God? Or are the example we are given for our admonition examples is Satan deceiving folks into disobedience?

being faithful is being faithful. Abraham was faithful. Jesus was faithful. These are my examples of what being faithful means, not the Pope or Jimmy swaggert

I think we need to ask ourselves a question. Do we follow a church that Transgresses the Commandments of God by man made traditions, or do we have the "Faith OF Jesus.

GUESS AGAIN, the Pharisees thought they kept GOD'S LAW Perfectly. They did not realized that they could NEVER KEEP GOD'S Law Perfectly, and therefore they were all GUILTY of BREAKING ALL OF GOD'S LAW.

James 2:10 (CSBBible)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the entire law, and yet stumbles at one point, is guilty of breaking it all.

 

[Rosemaryx]

I would say that grace alone saves but it’s the grace of God that brings us to faith.
Amazing grace that saves a wretch like me.

Not sure I get your point about “What is faith?
To me we are justified by faith alone and nothing else.
And yes genuine faith will produce works, I prefer fruit of the Spirit to be honest.

You say that God Jesus did keep God’s sabbaths and Holy days. Did he?

I ask this because what do we consider the sabbath to be? The sabbath that the Pharisees proclaimed or the sabbath that Jesus walked in?

I am not saying you do this but what really worries me is when we talk about works we can walk in the ways of don’t to and do do. I am not saying this is wrong per se but to me it is when it’s done in order to be rather than being and as a result of doing.

If we focus on doing in order to be then to me the bigger picture can me missed.
The bigger picture for me is relationship.

Jesus came to die for us, to forgive us of our sins that separates us from God.
Before the fall Adam and God had a relationship.

If we focus on doing rather than being then we can miss out on the relational ascpect.
Loved for who we are (his kids).
God healing our hearts of pain and anything that detracts from the relationship.

He doesn’t just want robots to do his will, he wants children to do his will.
In order to grow into his will he wants us to trust him for our welfare and wellbeing.
We can’t do that if we are too busy and saying “I ain’t got time I’m too busy doing your will”

What is more important to God? Relationship or works?
For me relationship then works follow.

Hi Bill...This reminds me of when Jesus spoke to Martha when she was more busy doing things then her sister Mary who sat at His feet and listened Luke 10.40 …40But Martha was distracted by all the preparations to be made. She came to Jesus and said, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Tell her to help me!” 41“Martha, Martha, the Lord replied, “you are worried and upset about many things.42But only one thing is necessary. Mary has chosen the good portion, and it will not be taken away from her.”…xox...

 

[Studyman]

Galatians 2:16 (ASV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (CSBBible)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] and yet because we know that a person is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we ourselves have believed in Christ Jesus. This was so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (NRSV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] yet we know that a person is justified not by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ. And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus, so that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by doing the works of the law, because no one will be justified by the works of the law.

Galatians 2:16 (ESV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (NIV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (GWT)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Yet, we know that people don't receive God's approval because of their own efforts to live according to a set of standards, but only by believing in Jesus Christ. So we also believed in Jesus Christ in order to receive God's approval by faith in Christ and not because of our own efforts. People won't receive God's approval because of their own efforts to live according to a set of standards.

Galatians 2:16 (NJB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] have nevertheless learnt that someone is reckoned as upright not by practising the Law but by faith in Jesus Christ; and we too came to believe in Christ Jesus so as to be reckoned as upright by faith in Christ and not by practising the Law: since no human being can be found upright by keeping the Law.


Sounds to me like you are unaware of the fact that the KJV is a Paraphrase of earlier English Translations to correct known errors, looks like you just found one they missed. They did not go back to the original language manuscripts to actually Translate the KJV, the Translation Team said so in their Original 1611 PREFACE. http://www.kjvbibles.com/kjpreface.htm


Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!




I guess you missed the part that proves that Faith is PART OF the FREE GIFT of GRACE. Surely you did not think it was something you reasoned out in your brain?


Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not from works, so that no one can boast.


Romans 4:16 (CSBBible)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] This is why the promise is by faith, so that it may be according to grace, to guarantee it to all the descendants??—??not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of Abraham's faith. He is the father of us all.


Romans 3:24 (CSBBible)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] They are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.


Romans 11:6 (ASV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.


1 Peter 5:10-12 (NKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] By Silvanus, our faithful brother as I consider him, I have written to you briefly, exhorting and testifying that this is the true grace of God in which you stand.

It doesn't matter what Translation you use. I know it is popular to translation shop to find a Bible that justifies current lifestyles. But God, in His infinite wisdom, is able for His truth to revealed in them all.

I have amended the post above to reflect the translations you like to use.

We are not saved by Grace alone, but by Grace THROUGH FAITH. As it is written.

So what Faith? We are told there is only one faith and one law. Still true no matter what translation you use.

Well I'm not going to answer this from my own mind, I'm going to let God's Word answer this question for me.

Gal. 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law(Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for remissions of sins.), but by the faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith in Christ,(His blood) and not by the works of the law and Goats blood as prescribed by the Levitical Priesthood) for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

So we are to have the "Faith in Christ" in order for God's Grace to justify us. Still true no matter which translation you use. The Bible teaches that Faith without works is DEAD, or no Faith at all. Still true no matter which translation you use.

So what are the "WORKS" that showed Christ's Faith?

Did He follow the Doctrines and Traditions of the church He was born into? Or did He do what His father Commanded?Was it sprinkling the blood of goats to forgive sin? No, that was the Old Covenant for the remission of sins. The New Covenant uses God's for the remission of sins is Grace through Faith in/of Jesus. In/OF, no real difference.


He did Keep God's Sabbaths, He kept God's Holy Days, He followed other Commandments of God as well. These are the "Works" that showed the "Faith of Jesus". I am instructed to "Walk even as He Walked". Jesus was a "Doer of God's Commandments, not a hearer only, therefore He didn't deceive Himself to believe He was following God when in fact He was following man made doctrines and traditions like the Mainstream Church that He rejected.

So if I am instructed to have the "Faith in Christ" for Grace to justify me, then I should "HEAR" His Words, and "DO" His Works as he instructs me.(Eat His Flesh, Drink His Blood)

This is why we are instructed to "Walk even as He walked".

This is not my doctrine or the tradition of any Mainstream Church, it is the conclusion one is led to when we consider EVERY WORD THAT PRODEEDS from the Word of God.

Thanks for using all those different translations and showing that it was/is no longer the Levitical Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial "works or Deeds of the Law" for remission of sins prescribed by the Law of Moses. The Levitical Priesthood was "ADDED" Till the Seed should come as Paul teaches. So now our sins are forgiven by Grace through Faith IN Jesus. I'm fine with that translation.

So Grace without Faith doesn't exist. And Faith without Works doesn't exist.

I will ask you a question now.

"I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." "Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

So is it works worthy of repentance to repent from one church or lifestyle that transgresses the Commandment of God by their own tradition, to another church or lifestyle who transgresses the commandments of God by their own traditions?


Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB) But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!

Does this annul repentance? I mean, since you preach we do nothing but tell Jesus to come in our heart.(Mind)

Does your few scriptures in various translation erase the rest of the Bible?

2 Cor. 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

We don't do this? Jesus does this for us?




Thanks for the thoughtful reply

 

[Studyman]

GUESS AGAIN, the Pharisees thought they kept GOD'S LAW Perfectly. They did not realized that they could NEVER KEEP GOD'S Law Perfectly, and therefore they were all GUILTY of BREAKING ALL OF GOD'S LAW.

James 2:10 (CSBBible)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the entire law, and yet stumbles at one point, is guilty of breaking it all.

Yes, if you honor God's Commandments where killing people are concerned, but you cheat on your wife you are guilty. Do you really want to go there?

The Pharisees were deceivers and servants of satan. You blame this on God because He created Laws they couldn't keep?

And where is your Biblical support for your preaching that it is impossible to obey God?

 

[PeterJens]

Then you and I are in agreement.

I will tell you a true story of something that happened to me and my wife. Back in the earlier 80's, when we were searching for a very good Bible Teaching Church, in our town, the third largest in Nebraska, we tried a Baptist Church one Sunday morning. The Pastor had a guest Missionary from Africa give the Sermon. That Missionary's closing statement of his sermon was literally: "The reason I serve the LORD, is I want the biggest, fanciest Manson on the Street of Gold. I don't want to get stuck with a shack out back on the Crystal River." My mouth dropped open, HE DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE FIRST THING ABOUT WHY WE SERVE GOD. We serve, because we LOVE HIM. As we walked to car, knowing we would not be back, I told my wife, "I don't care if he gives me that shack on the River, I just want to be there with HIM, because I love HIM."

Amen. I am sorry we have miss-understood each other, but this is my heart also.
Christ has always been about those who have a heart for love and walking in His
ways because they are just pure, righteous and wonderful.

It is only fallen man who hates or dislikes what these things mean. It always
disappoints me when people get lost is what they call honey sweet love ie
turning things rosy, where Jesus is about love that overcomes evil, that looks
at a lunatic, and knows there is a chance love can break in, and refuses to be
provoked at the cost of much, even ones own life.

 

[VCO]

Yes, if you honor God's Commandments where killing people are concerned, but you cheat on your wife you are guilty. Do you really want to go there?

The Pharisees were deceivers and servants of satan. You blame this on God because He created Laws they couldn't keep?

And where is your Biblical support for your preaching that it is impossible to obey God?

><>t<><

No the purpose of the LAW has always been to prove to man that HE CAN NEVER LIVE UP TO GOD'S STANDARDS, thereby CAUSING Man to CRY OUT FOR A MESSIAH.


You sound like a modern day Pharisee.


James 2:10 (CSBBible)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the entire law, and yet stumbles at one point,
is guilty of breaking it all.


Romans 3:20 (ESV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight,
since through the law comes knowledge of sin.


Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.




Old Testament Saints, are those who believed GOD would provide a Messiah to Pay for their SINS.

New Testament Saints, are those who believe GOD did provide a Messiah to Pay for their SINS.


THAT is the SAME FAITH, the FAITH OF ABRAHAM.

 

[MattforJesus]

Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

The Pharisees had a problem of adding commandments,and traditions,to their religion,such as the Roman Catholic Church does,that has nothing to do with the operation of God on earth,and His ways.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

We have to establish the law,the moral laws,and laws of love,and this is by the Spirit,and what God commands.

The Pharisees were adding things not of God,but a lot of people that say we have to obey the law is only looking at it from the perspective of the Spirit leading them,not adding anything to it.

Everybody has to live up to the law,which we can do by the Spirit,for a Spirit led like will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh,for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts,and show the ways of the Spirit,therefore they are not under the law,because they are abstaining from sin,so the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

If a person sins,or holds unto sin,they are back under the law until they do not want it,and mean it,and God knows the heart,and allow the Spirit to lead them.

Hold unto sin,and the sacrifice of Jesus cannot take away that sin.

Jesus said whatever is in the heart is what comes out,and if they sin,and neglect the poor and needy,and go by their wants,then that is what is in their heart.

1Sa 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Every thought is to be to the obedience of Christ.

Charity,love in action,is greater than faith,and faith works through love.

It is love alone,not faith alone.

Paul said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains,but if he did not have charity he is nothing.

Charity does not think an evil thought,and does not sin by the Spirit,and does not go by their wants,but needs,and helps others with their needs.

If we lack works,charity,love in action,then we are not allowing the Spirit to lead us,and then it is a lack of love,which is a lack of faith.

They say they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,and believe the prosperity Gospel,so how do people think they are going to conduct themselves.

That is why people go against OSAS,and faith alone,for they think they are not trying to beat sin,but do it on purpose,and hold unto it,and then say they cannot abstain from sin.

But the Roman Catholic Church cannot say anything,for their works,extra curricular activity does not count,and is like the Pharisees,but we only do the works of the Spirit,charity,love in action.

 

[Studyman]

><>t<><

No the purpose of the LAW has always been to prove to man that HE CAN NEVER LIVE UP TO GOD'S STANDARDS, thereby CAUSING Man to CRY OUT FOR A MESSIAH.


You sound like a modern day Pharisee.


James 2:10 (CSBBible)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the entire law, and yet stumbles at one point,
is guilty of breaking it all.


Romans 3:20 (ESV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight,
since through the law comes knowledge of sin.


Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.




Old Testament Saints, are those who believed GOD would provide a Messiah to Pay for their SINS.

New Testament Saints, are those who believe GOD did provide a Messiah to Pay for their SINS.


THAT is the SAME FAITH, the FAITH OF ABRAHAM.

Yes the faith of Abraham, the father of us all who God shoed fit to give His Great Promise.

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Had Abraham lived in Christ's time the Mainstream Church would have rejected and killed him. If Abraham was born in my time the Mainstream Christian Church would reject him, call him a Pharisee and claim he had fallen from Grace.

No the purpose of the LAW has always been to prove to man that HE CAN NEVER LIVE UP TO GOD'S STANDARDS, thereby CAUSING Man to CRY OUT FOR A MESSIAH.

That is your preaching to be sure. But I am not going to erase all the countless scripture in the Bible that is necessary for this doctrine to stand.

The battle between those who serve God with their lips and those who offer themselves a living sacrifice to God has been going on since Cain Killed Abel because Abel's "WORKS" were righteous, while Cain's were not.

If I want to know why God created his Commandments, I will ask him, not someone who Transgresses the Commandments of God by their own church doctrine.

Duet. 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.

But you preach it is impossible to keep?

12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

What, you preach that God created His Law to prove we can't keep it. Who should I believe here VCO, you and the Pope? Of God/Jesus?

15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;


16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, (Some long haired Levi Jean model) and serve them;


18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.


19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Abraham chose life, Noah chose life. Zechariah and Elizabeth chose life, David chose life. And I choose life as well VCO.

20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice,(Not traditions and doctrines of men) and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

God didn't create Laws to prove we could be faithful to Him. He created Laws to expose, to reflect as a mirror how deceitful and wicked we are and how wise and perfect our God is.

Rom. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.



13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Can you see this statement? That sin(Transgression of God's perfect Laws) might become EXCEEDINGLY SINFUL

So we would submit ourselves to His Righteous and not our own.

I know you will not be able to accept these truths, but to some of you others who are reading this. Do you see the point? This is why Jesus exposed the Mainstream preachers of His time and why Jesus and His Apostles warned about the Mainstream Christian preachers of this time. This is why Peter rejected the "Sect of believers" in Acts 15 and sent the New Converts to the scribes on God's Sabbaths to learn from Moses as Jesus instructed.

Rev. 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, (Transgression of God's Commandments by their own doctrines and traditions) and that ye receive not of her plagues. (Seeing they can not see, hearing they can not hear)