Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Thats the problem with you people. You think we are teaching it is ok to sin all you want, and we do not have to be obedient, everything will be ok. When it is not true.

Then you wonder why people say things they do, it gets old being told you believe or teach things you do not. Because you all are not willing to listen. You think you know so you continue to blab Yadira yardage Yadira and tell us things you think we need to know. Which we already know.

True faith works, False faith does not. We love because God loved us. We (DC, GB9, Truthtalk and many others) believe and teach this, yet we continue to get lawyers scold us for not teaching this.

News flash.

True faith works, True faith obeyed, NOT TO GET or KEEP or MAINTAIN salvation./ but BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED.

Any questions??

AMEN to that........It is as if they cannot understand anything that gets said.......we could post a 10,000 word essay on faith and this is what they would see.....

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[blue_ladybug]

...............

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The cat lady has distemper HAHAHAH

 

[PHart]

Thats the problem with you people. You think we are teaching it is ok to sin all you want, and we do not have to be obedient, everything will be ok. When it is not true.

That is exactly what OSAS teaches. It says there is NOTHING you can do, or not do to lose your salvation. That's turning the grace of God into a license to sin whether you folks can see that fact or not.
And you can argue all day long that the true believer won't avail himself of his freedom to sin with impunity, but that still makes grace a license to sin whether he indulges it or not. Saying the true believer won't do that does not change the fact that your doctrine makes grace a license to sin with impunity.

 

[PHart]

4For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." Jude 1:4

 

[mailmandan]

4For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." Jude 1:4

Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men who have crept in unnoticed.

Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit (vs. 19)

*In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1).

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

 

[Seohce]

You should learn what a real attack is and grow some skin....if you are offended by blah, blah, blah.....you are in trouble when the rubber really meets the road for believers (if you are ) in the very near future......serious!

1 Corinthians 4:3-8 . I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?

 

[PeterJens]

AMEN to that........It is as if they cannot understand anything that gets said.......we could post a 10,000 word essay on faith and this is what they would see.....

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The weird thing with the above is no one is saying they save themselves.
This is like a mantra they want to surround themselves with.

People are not saying what they are saying, the bible is not saying what it is saying,
it is only through this filter do the right words come out. One ex-member even used
the words "lens" to talk about their perspective. If you need to use a lens you already
admit you are distorting reality.

The point about truth is it stands up from every angle. It is how we know it is truth.
So if Jesus spent 3 years saying "I will die and rise again" and he actively accepts
death and His followers say, they saw Him alive again, it is most certainly likely this
is exactly what happened. He conned no one into fake versions, or invisible returns
or maybes. It was a small group, who's whole meaning was dependent on Christ
being Christ and rising, without this they were nothing.

The reason this claim is so unusual is because only God could have made it.
So there is no precedent, or way of testing it, because it had never occurred before.

And the lives of the disciples and their faith rested on them being convinced this
happened in front of them, and there was no fear in death, because their Lord had
overcome. It does not get clearer than this.

So equally Peter saying "Live Holy lives" means live Holy lives.

Now you can be a compromised distorted and defeated believer, but you cannot
deny the very words of the apostle. If you do, you are just apostate.

Our whole faith rests on their experience of Christ and testimony.
So it is very serious when people call into question the very principles of the christian
life and dilute it with sin and sinful behaviour. This is sinful behaviour in itself.

 

[Hizikyah]

John/Yahanan 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."


Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"


John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."


Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."


Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:3-6, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked.”[/FONT]

 

[garee]

That is exactly what OSAS teaches. It says there is NOTHING you can do, or not do to lose your salvation. That's turning the grace of God into a license to sin whether you folks can see that fact or not.

Since you keep talking about licenses. Sounds like you are trying to sell a licence to make the Spirit of Grace in respect to the work of Christ without affect? How much does it cost?

Christian have the confidence that if Christ has begun the work of salivation by paying the whole dept of sin he will finish it as he does work in us to both will and perform His good pleasure of creating a new creation.

That’s the law of faith it comes from hearing God .Again it works in us to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness.

If some turn it into a license of sin it does not change the law of faith as if it was subject to change. .Calling it a license to sin is one of the many excuses men have to try and offer their own wonderful works in false pride, empty boasts.

Believing God as he gives us His faith to make it possible has settled the eternal wage of sin and not as down payment due in monthly installments .But is eternal damnation, not a slap on the hand... go do a good work and everything will just be fine in the end.

Remember the opposite of Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) or actual redemption, and not a kick start placing a person to where Adam and Eve were before they violated one law is .... Once Dead in trespasses and sin is Always Dead in tresses passes and sin. (ODAD)

And you can argue all day long that the true believer won't avail himself of his freedom to sin with impunity, but that still makes grace a license to sin whether he indulges it or not. Saying the true believer won't do that does not change the fact that your doctrine makes grace a license to sin with impunity.

It’s not a license to sin, never was never will be. It’s a license of forgiveness.(freedom from the consequences of sin) Can’t out sin His grace.

It would seem you are not fearing him aright like the man in Mathew 7, a wonderful worker of iniquity offering good work to pay for his own sin, as them that have changed the wage of sin like those in the Hebrews 6 boat.

Better things accompany salvation called “redemption” not in part but the whole.

Below is a great comforting Psalm that can release a person from the bondage of sin as the license of true forgiveness .

The license of forgiveness reads....

Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O LORD.Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications. If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? “Bu”t there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope.My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning.Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

 

[Studyman]

I stopped at TEN Translations, that said FAITH IN CHRIST, instead of your KJV that said FAITH OF CHRIST. If you want me to find more, I certainly can do that. My point was the overwhelming vast majority of actual TRANSLATIONS from the GREEK, do say FAITH IN CHRIST. I see you want to ignore the fact that the Scriptures actually imply that FAITH is part of the FREE GIFT OF SALVATION THAT IS PURELY BY THE GRACE OF GOD.

GRACE = Receiving what you do not deserve and cannot earn.

MERCY = Not receiving what you do deserve, and cannot pay for yourself.

There is only one faith according to the Word of God, even your translations say this. Jesus had this Faith. I believe this to be true. So whether the translation says Faith of Jesus of the Bible, or Faith in Jesus of the Bible. It is still the One Faith shown by the One Law from the One God.

The Bible is clear that not everyone receives God's Mercy.

The Mainstream God of Abraham preaching church of His time taught for doctrines the commandments of men. They "Transgressed the Commandments of God (The pure definition of sin) by their own doctrines and traditions of men.

For this reason Jesus rejected them from His Fathers Grace. He tried to show them, He used the Word's from the same Book they claimed to cherish to expose their transgressions. But not only did they disregard the Scriptures that corrected them, they scorned, persecuted and even killed those who loved them enough to show them.

As the scripture describes in Titus.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

1 Cor. 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

I understand that your religion is widely accepted in the world. That there is a great many who preach that Jesus doesn't send us a helper, He does it all for us. "We can do nothing" is the declaration. I simply choose not to ignore the many scripture that calls this preaching into question.

I also know it is widely preached and accepted that the New covenant is not the elimination and fulfillment of the Levitical Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial "works and Deeds of the Law" for remission of sins as God gave Moses "Until the Seed should come". But you preach and by extension, All of Mainstream Christianity preaches the New Covenant is the elimination of All of God's Law structure He gave to Moses, not just the Levitical Priesthood.

Not just the way sin is justified as the Bible teaches, "Grace through Faith in/of Jesus VS. Levitical Priesthood Ceremonial "works of the Law" but they preach Jesus changed the definition of sin as well.

Titus 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

I could go on and on but to what end. You won't even consider the scriptures I use, instead you concentrate on slight differences in translations which bear absolutely no relevance to the whole of the point of my post. So if we can't discuss all scripture, why continue?

 

[Studyman]

Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men who have crept in unnoticed.

Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit (vs. 19)

*In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1).

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

So would "Transgressing the Commandments of God by man made doctrines and traditions be considered "worldly minded, devoid of the spirit"?

 

[Studyman]

Hi gb9, I'm teachable and yes you have the correct Gospel.

Luke:24:27
"And beginning with "Moses and all the Prophet", he explained to them what was said in "all the Scriptures concerning himself."
The clear reading of Rom1:16,17,

16) "the gospel of Christ = the power of God = unto salvation = to everyone who believes."

17) "For 'therein' is the righteousness of God revealed = the just shall live by faith." Romans1:16,17

As proof in the statement below, doing back flips and scripture twisting to prove your false gospel is wrong and then to add insults to a false gospel is shameful. This is the reason for adding people to "Ignore", listening to lies day after day is wrong.

....................................................................................................................................

Originally Posted by Studyman

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The insults:

I understand how difficult it is to be corrected, most men are just too prideful to allow God's Word to humble them.

But to say that Paul isn't saying that the righteousness of God is revealed to us from "Within" the Gospel of Christ is to completely ignore this and many other scriptures of the Bible.

But I understand if you can't accept this Biblical truth, church tradition is a powerful thing.

These statements are true. You call them false with no proof or support, and insults, not sure why. What have I stated that isn't directly in line with Scripture. If you were pricked by this truth, maybe you should look inward, and not at me.

I think I would be in good company on your ignore list.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him:

I see the Mainstream Church of Christ's time put Stephen on their permanent ignore list as well.

 

[notmyown]

There is only one faith according to the Word of God, even your translations say this. Jesus had this Faith. I believe this to be true. So whether the translation says Faith of Jesus of the Bible, or Faith in Jesus of the Bible. It is still the One Faith shown by the One Law from the One God.

mmm... no. different job descriptions between the Law and the Gospel.
the Law is not based on faith. there's nothing in the Law that requires or takes notice of anyone's faith.
the Law demands perfect obedience, and 'the one who does them shall live by them'.

God's Law is spiritual, and good. but it's the Gospel that reveals the righteousness of God (from faith to faith).
the just shall live by faith in the Gospel.

 

[PennEd]

These statements are true. You call them false with no proof or support, and insults, not sure why. What have I stated that isn't directly in line with Scripture. If you were pricked by this truth, maybe you should look inward, and not at me.

I think I would be in good company on your ignore list.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him:

I see the Mainstream Church of Christ's time put Stephen on their permanent ignore list as well.

Hmm.... You throwing a verse out about STEPHEN, and permanent ignore, is interesting.

How bout I just flat out ask you.

Have you ever been on this site under a different screen name?

 

[TruthTalk]

I think I would be in good company on your ignore list.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him:

I see the Mainstream Church of Christ's time put Stephen on their permanent ignore list as well.

I think I would be in good company on your ignore list.

Oh happy days

 

[gb9]

There is only one faith according to the Word of God, even your translations say this. Jesus had this Faith. I believe this to be true. So whether the translation says Faith of Jesus of the Bible, or Faith in Jesus of the Bible. It is still the One Faith shown by the One Law from the One God.

The Bible is clear that not everyone receives God's Mercy.

The Mainstream God of Abraham preaching church of His time taught for doctrines the commandments of men. They "Transgressed the Commandments of God (The pure definition of sin) by their own doctrines and traditions of men.

For this reason Jesus rejected them from His Fathers Grace. He tried to show them, He used the Word's from the same Book they claimed to cherish to expose their transgressions. But not only did they disregard the Scriptures that corrected them, they scorned, persecuted and even killed those who loved them enough to show them.

As the scripture describes in Titus.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

1 Cor. 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

I understand that your religion is widely accepted in the world. That there is a great many who preach that Jesus doesn't send us a helper, He does it all for us. "We can do nothing" is the declaration. I simply choose not to ignore the many scripture that calls this preaching into question.

I also know it is widely preached and accepted that the New covenant is not the elimination and fulfillment of the Levitical Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial "works and Deeds of the Law" for remission of sins as God gave Moses "Until the Seed should come". But you preach and by extension, All of Mainstream Christianity preaches the New Covenant is the elimination of All of God's Law structure He gave to Moses, not just the Levitical Priesthood.

Not just the way sin is justified as the Bible teaches, "Grace through Faith in/of Jesus VS. Levitical Priesthood Ceremonial "works of the Law" but they preach Jesus changed the definition of sin as well.

Titus 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

I could go on and on but to what end. You won't even consider the scriptures I use, instead you concentrate on slight differences in translations which bear absolutely no relevance to the whole of the point of my post. So if we can't discuss allscripture, why continue?

in Titus 1 v. 10-16, Paul was speaking of Jews, calling the circumcision party. in v.15 , he is saying that they are unbelievers, .

do you need me to interpret the whole Bible for you?? you seem to have an issue with context, and what is being said to who.

Titus was a letter. read it as such, don't chop it into pieces, and build theology around the pieces.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and this member does not recognize the Biblical definition of sin, missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so.

so, as a result, peter thinks he does not sin. peter is wrong, no one is sinless.

I have to ask. Why do people even respond to him anymore.

I am sure he made a sarcastic comment about what you said, and twisted it all back on you. Which is his normal operendi. So why do people bother.

 

[Studyman]

Hmm.... You throwing a verse out about STEPHEN, and permanent ignore, is interesting.

How bout I just flat out ask you.

Have you ever been on this site under a different screen name?

No, I am just struck by truth that the mind of man that has been the same since Cain killed Abel because Abel's "Works" were accepted by God but Cain's were not.

 

[Hizikyah]

No, I am just struck by truth that the mind of man that has been the same since Cain killed Abel because Abel's "Works" were accepted by God but Cain's were not.

Why did Yah accept Able's offering and not Cain's?

 

[Hizikyah]

Why did Yah accept Able's offering and not Cain's?

I believe it is because when one have sincere faith they will serve as Yah wants, rather than serving Yah as they want.