Not By Works

[mailmandan]

I believe it is because when one have sincere faith they will serve as Yah wants, rather than serving Yah as they want.

Yes, faith is the root of the issue. It was by "out of" faith that Abel offered a sacrifice. Abel's faith was evidenced in obedience to God's requirement for sacrifice by which he obtained witness that he was righteous (Hebrews 11:4). His offering substantiated his faith (James 2:18). Cain, who was of the evil one, demonstrated an evil heart by evil deeds, while Abel demonstrated a righteous heart by his righteous deeds (1 John 3:12); and that Abel offered his sacrifice by faith and Cain did not. Cain's sacrifice was evidence of his lack of faith. Abel's offering proved something about his faith that was not demonstrated by Cain's offering.

 

[PHart]

Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit (vs. 19)

*In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1).

I'm not going to argue that some of the people who make grace a license to sin may not be the called, sanctified, and preserved in Christ that OSAS doctrine has deceived them into thinking they are. No argument from me on that.

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

That's why we need to continue being saints through our continued trust in Christ, keeping ourselves in the love of God as Jude says to do. The promise is for the saints of God, not the former saints of God who stopped believing along the way somewhere and went back to unbelief.

20But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life." (Jude 1:20 NASB)
​

But I suspect that since Jude is saying this you folks won't see him as saying we justify/save ourselves in a works gospel, but when we say what he said, yes, all of a sudden it's a works gospel. Wake up, people! Building yourself up in your faith and keeping yourself in the love of God is NOT a works gospel, lol!

 

[Hizikyah]

No, I am just struck by truth that the mind of man that has been the same since Cain killed Abel because Abel's "Works" were accepted by God but Cain's were not.

Why did Yah accept Able's offering and not Cain's?

I believe it is because when one have sincere faith they will serve as Yah wants, rather than serving Yah as they want.

Genesis 4 WEB
“1, The man knew Eve his wife. She conceived, and gave birth to Cain, and said, “I have gotten a man with Yahweh’s help.
2, "Again she gave birth, to Cain’s brother Abel. Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
3, "As time passed, it happened that Cain brought an offering to Yahweh from the fruit of the ground.
4, "Abel also brought some of the firstborn of his flock and of its fat. Yahweh respected Abel and his offering,
5, "but he didn’t respect Cain and his offering. Cain was very angry, and the expression on his face fell.
6, "Yahweh said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why has the expression of your face fallen?
7, "If you do well, will it not be lifted up? If you don’t do well, sin crouches at the door. Its desire is for you, but you are to rule over it.”

They both did works, and one's works were accepted one's works were not accepted. The heart that truly loves Yah will do as Yah says.

Genesis 4 WEB
3, "As time passed, it happened that Cain brought an offering to Yahweh from the fruit of the ground.
4, "Abel also brought some of the firstborn of his flock and of its fat. Yahweh respected Abel and his offering,
5, "but he didn’t respect Cain and his offering.

Cain offered "from the fruit of the ground"
Abel "also brought some of the firstborn of his flock and of its fat" the word also there means he brought "firstborn of his flock and of its fat" and "fruit of the ground"

Now this shows us that offering "fruit of the ground" was not in iteself wrong, so what could be the difference?

Hebrews 11:4, “By belief, Heḇel offered to Yah a greater sacrifice offering than Qayin, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, Yah witnessing of his gifts. And through it, having died, he still speaks.”

1 John 3:12, “Not as Qayin who was of the wicked one and killed his brother. And why did he kill him? Because his works were wicked but those of his brother were righteous.”

"By belief" and "works...of his brother (Abel) were righteous"

Why were they righteous? What is righteous?

Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”

Deuteronomy 6:25, "And it is righteousness for us when we guard to do all this command before יהוה our Strength, as He has commanded us.”

Psalm 119:172, “My tongue sings of Your word, For all Your commands are righteousness.”

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

Did not Cain do works, yet his were not accepted, while faithfil and righteous Abel's works were...Reminds me of this...

Mat 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! Will enter into the Kingdom of YHWH, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

“iniquity” is word # G0458 - anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459, Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law, 1a) because ignorant of it, 1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, I am just struck by truth that the mind of man that has been the same since Cain killed Abel because Abel's "Works" were accepted by God but Cain's were not.

Your mistaken, God accepted Abels SACRIFICE, he did not accept Cains works.

Cain offered the fruit of his labor

Abel affered innocent blood representative of Christ)

 

[Hizikyah]

Your mistaken, God accepted Abels SACRIFICE, he did not accept Cains works.

Cain offered the fruit of his labor

Abel affered innocent blood representative of Christ)

I agree with the imagery but they both did a
4503. minchah

Strong's Concordance

minchah: a gift, tribute, offering​

Original Word: מִנְחָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: minchah
Phonetic Spelling: (min-khaw')
Short Definition: offering

One did as required one did as they pleased.

Because Abel offered both a blood sacrifice and fruit from the ground.

 

[Studyman]

mmm... no. different job descriptions between the Law and the Gospel.
the Law is not based on faith. there's nothing in the Law that requires or takes notice of anyone's faith.
the Law demands perfect obedience, and 'the one who does them shall live by them'.

God's Law is spiritual, and good. but it's the Gospel that reveals the righteousness of God (from faith to faith).
the just shall live by faith in the Gospel.

The scripture you quote comes from the old Testament. The Righteousness of God is revealed from the Old Testament. The Gospel of Christ IS the Old Testament. That is where the Messiah is prophesied. That is where it is taught about Him. That is what Paul teaches in Rom. 1. But this isn't what you preach, or most on this forum. You preach that the Gospel of Christ is not the Old Testament.

What you are missing is the FACT that the Mainstream Church of that time were also teaching untruths about the Gospel of Christ. That they were teaching for doctrines the Commandments of men. That they were "Transgressing the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions".

Paul describes in Rom.

Rom. 119 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

How did God show it to them? Through the only Gospel of Christ on the planet yes? What other Book preaches about a lowly unattractive common man coming, born of a woman, to save us from our sins? What other Book preaches about His Blood used to cleanse of us our sins. (Passover) You Bible and mine. We have not only the "Path" to righteousness, we also have all the examples of those who walked, and the consequences of those who rejected this path. And we also have Jesus who was the perfect example of the human God wants us to strive to be. We have no excuse.

You don't know this because you refuse to accept any scripture or interpretation that doesn't support the Mainstream Church doctrine of the day. I assume you don't know this, so I am risking your scorn to show you. Not by my words but His.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

We all have pretty much the same Bible, the same written examples we are to use for our admonition. (! Cor. 10)

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

They didn't have Faith in the God of the Bible and His instruction, so they created their own. And when God sent a Prophet to show them their transgressions, they persecuted and killed many of them. And when God sent Jesus, His Son, to show them their sin, they killed Him as well.

Why did they kill their own Messiah? Because they didn't know God. They had created their own version of God. A god whose Sabbath didn't allow picking a eating a blackberry on a Sabbath Walk, or helping a brother in need. A god who required them to "Fast twice a week". And many other such things they did. They rejected the Word's of God and created their own path, their own way. A way that "Transgressed the Commandments of God by their own Traditions."


22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Since they had rejected the "Law of Liberty" they rejected the Mirror that shows them their real self. They forgot what manner of men they were. "Wicked above all things". And they, as James preached, "Deceived their own selves". they still read God's Word. They still used his Word to justify their transgressions. But Jesus rejected them just the same.

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

They created a god after their own mind. A god that had different laws, a different path. Jesus said this god was satan.

How is this any different than the Mainstream Christian Church of today with their own "Feasts unto the Lord" and their own Sabbath? How is it any different today with statues, pictures and images of some pretty men's hair shampoo model they created as their Jesus.

Hey, it's only a Book. Maybe it doesn't matter. But I have Faith in Jesus which would include His Father and His Word. So for me, it does matter. That is why I post on this site, just in case the Book is truth.

 

[gb9]

The scripture you quote comes from the old Testament. The Righteousness of God is revealed from the Old Testament. The Gospel of Christ IS the Old Testament. That is where the Messiah is prophesied. That is where it is taught about Him. That is what Paul teaches in Rom. 1. But this isn't what you preach, or most on this forum. You preach that the Gospel of Christ is not the Old Testament.

What you are missing is the FACT that the Mainstream Church of that time were also teaching untruths about the Gospel of Christ. That they were teaching for doctrines the Commandments of men. That they were "Transgressing the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions".

Paul describes in Rom.

Rom. 119 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

How did God show it to them? Through the only Gospel of Christ on the planet yes? What other Book preaches about a lowly unattractive common man coming, born of a woman, to save us from our sins? What other Book preaches about His Blood used to cleanse of us our sins. (Passover) You Bible and mine. We have not only the "Path" to righteousness, we also have all the examples of those who walked, and the consequences of those who rejected this path. And we also have Jesus who was the perfect example of the human God wants us to strive to be. We have no excuse.

You don't know this because you refuse to accept any scripture or interpretation that doesn't support the Mainstream Church doctrine of the day. I assume you don't know this, so I am risking your scorn to show you. Not by my words but His.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

We all have pretty much the same Bible, the same written examples we are to use for our admonition. (! Cor. 10)

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

They didn't have Faith in the God of the Bible and His instruction, so they created their own. And when God sent a Prophet to show them their transgressions, they persecuted and killed many of them. And when God sent Jesus, His Son, to show them their sin, they killed Him as well.

Why did they kill their own Messiah? Because they didn't know God. They had created their own version of God. A god whose Sabbath didn't allow picking a eating a blackberry on a Sabbath Walk, or helping a brother in need. A god who required them to "Fast twice a week". And many other such things they did. They rejected the Word's of God and created their own path, their own way. A way that "Transgressed the Commandments of God by their own Traditions."


22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Since they had rejected the "Law of Liberty" they rejected the Mirror that shows them their real self. They forgot what manner of men they were. "Wicked above all things". And they, as James preached, "Deceived their own selves". they still read God's Word. They still used his Word to justify their transgressions. But Jesus rejected them just the same.

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

They created a god after their own mind. A god that had different laws, a different path. Jesus said this god was satan.

How is this any different than the Mainstream Christian Church of today with their own "Feasts unto the Lord" and their own Sabbath? How is it any different today with statues, pictures and images of some pretty men's hair shampoo model they created as their Jesus.

Hey, it's only a Book. Maybe it doesn't matter. But I have Faith in Jesus which would include His Father and His Word. So for me, it does matter. That is why I post on this site, just in case the Book is truth.

Romans 1, Paul says the Gospel of Christ came THROUGH the PROFITS that were in the O.T. it does not say that the O.T. is the Gospel.

stop telling lies about God's word.

 

[mailmandan]

I'm not going to argue that some of the people who make grace a license to sin may not be the called, sanctified, and preserved in Christ that OSAS doctrine has deceived them into thinking they are. No argument from me on that.

Making grace a license to sin is not descriptive of a child of God (1 John 3:7-10).

That's why we need to continue being saints through our continued trust in Christ, keeping ourselves in the love of God as Jude says to do. The promise is for the saints of God, not the former saints of God who stopped believing along the way somewhere and went back to unbelief.

Continued trust in Christ is a sign of genuine conversion. Those who allegedly stop believing had a temporary, shallow belief that had no root and such is a sign of no genuine conversion, which explains why they were not true saints who are preserved forever.

20But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life." (Jude 1:20 NASB)

Keep yourselves in the love of God is supplemented with three participles of means in the original; they answer the question, "How does one keep himself in the love of God?" By building yourselves up in your most holy faith; by praying in the Holy Spirit; and by looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

I don't see a "lose your salvation" warning in this exhortation. Was Peter, Barnabas and the rest of the Jews keeping themselves in the love of God in this situation at Antioch in Galatians 2:11-15? Was anything said about them losing their salvation? Even Christians have their weak moments. The phrase "keep yourselves in His love" does not convey the idea that we need to pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps and keep ourselves saved by acts of love.

The word "keep" means to attend to carefully, take care of, guard. We do this by building ourselves up in our most holy faith; by praying in the Holy Spirit; and by looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

But I suspect that since Jude is saying this you folks won't see him as saying we justify/save ourselves in a works gospel, but when we say it, yes, all of a sudden it's a works gospel. Wake up, people! Building yourself up in your faith and keeping yourself in the love of God is NOT a works gospel, lol!

I don't see building myself up in my most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit and keeping myself in the love of God as a works gospel because I don't see it as a means of helping Christ to keep me saved.​

 

[Hizikyah]

They didn't have Faith in the God of the Bible and His instruction, so they created their own. And when God sent a Prophet to show them their transgressions, they persecuted and killed many of them. And when God sent Jesus, His Son, to show them their sin, they killed Him as well.

Why did they kill their own Messiah? Because they didn't know God. They had created their own version of God. A god whose Sabbath didn't allow picking a eating a blackberry on a Sabbath Walk, or helping a brother in need. A god who required them to "Fast twice a week". And many other such things they did. They rejected the Word's of God and created their own path, their own way. A way that "Transgressed the Commandments of God by their own Traditions."

His way, not ours or the worlds or any way.... His way.

Psalm 42:2, “My being thirsts for Yah, for the living Strength When shall I enter in to appear before Yah?"


Psalm 32:8 “I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will counsel you with my eye upon you”


Psalm 25:8-10, “Good and upright is יהוה: therefore will he teach sinners in the way. The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way. All the paths of יהוה are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.”

 

[Studyman]

Why did Yah accept Able's offering and not Cain's?

Gen. 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

The first and Greatest Commandment is to "Love the Lord thy God with all thine heart." This is still a requirement today as it was from the beginning. Abel showed his Love for God by giving up the very best of the labor that God had blessed Abel with.

Cain, on the other hand, didn't give his best. He simply gave an offering.

Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.


5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

This is another indicator that Cain didn't love God as Abel did. Why did Cain get Angry when God corrected him?

I liken this story as symbolic of Christ's walk on earth. Christ, His Apostles represent Abel and the Mainstream Church of that time represent Cain.

Jesus gave His best and taught His Apostles to do the same. Their best would be considered trusting God enough to give our very best effort, or as Paul says (Offer ourselves a living sacrifice to God).

The Mainstream Church, however, while claiming God of Abraham as their God, same as Cain, didn't trust (have faith) God and His Word and didn't offer themselves or "submit themselves to the Righteousness of God". They had created their own righteousness, their own path which transgressed God's Commandments.

I love how God's Word all fits together for our understanding as Paul declares in:

1 Cor. 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

This is my take of the Cain and Abel example.

 

[Studyman]

Romans 1, Paul says the Gospel of Christ came THROUGH the PROFITS that were in the O.T. it does not say that the O.T. is the Gospel.

stop telling lies about God's word.

OK, LOL, so the Prophets who reveal the truth about Christ is in the OT, their Words describing the true Jesus is in the OT.

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

But the OT is not the Gospel of Christ.

Well I won't call you a liar, but I will respectfully disagree.

 

[TruthTalk]

"I see the "Mainstream Church of Christ's time", put Stephen on their permanent ignore list as well.

You try to liken the, "Mainstream Church of Christ's time", to Stephen's death, really? Just more of your scripture twisting and doing back flips to make the bible say what you want it to say, everybody is wrong but you right. You would do yourself a big favor and everyone if you would take a bible course on interpretation of scripture.....back to the "land of ignore"

The Stoning of Stephen

Acts7:54-60
54) When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him
55) But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
56)“Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”
57) At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him,
58) dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.
59) While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”
60) Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.”
When he had said this, he fell asleep.

 

[Hizikyah]

Gen. 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

The first and Greatest Commandment is to "Love the Lord thy God with all thine heart." This is still a requirement today as it was from the beginning. Abel showed his Love for God by giving up the very best of the labor that God had blessed Abel with.

Cain, on the other hand, didn't give his best. He simply gave an offering.

Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.


5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

This is another indicator that Cain didn't love God as Abel did. Why did Cain get Angry when God corrected him?

I liken this story as symbolic of Christ's walk on earth. Christ, His Apostles represent Abel and the Mainstream Church of that time represent Cain.

Jesus gave His best and taught His Apostles to do the same. Their best would be considered trusting God enough to give our very best effort, or as Paul says (Offer ourselves a living sacrifice to God).

The Mainstream Church, however, while claiming God of Abraham as their God, same as Cain, didn't trust (have faith) God and His Word and didn't offer themselves or "submit themselves to the Righteousness of God". They had created their own righteousness, their own path which transgressed God's Commandments.

I love how God's Word all fits together for our understanding as Paul declares in:

1 Cor. 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

This is my take of the Cain and Abel example.

Feel free to add this here if you would like;

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...accepted-but-cains-offering-not-accepted.html

 

[VCO]

That is exactly what OSAS teaches. It says there is NOTHING you can do, or not do to lose your salvation. That's turning the grace of God into a license to sin whether you folks can see that fact or not.
And you can argue all day long that the true believer won't avail himself of his freedom to sin with impunity, but that still makes grace a license to sin whether he indulges it or not. Saying the true believer won't do that does not change the fact that your doctrine makes grace a license to sin with impunity.

THAT IS THE LIE YOU WERE TAUGHT ABOUT OSAS. Your Theology recognizes almost anyone who claims to be a Christian, and puts on a good show of obedience as being true Christians. WE DO NOT, as the GATE to Becoming a genuine born again Christian is MUCH NARROWER than Your Theology. We recognize only the FEW who have come through the NARROW GATE, of Receiving JESUS CHRIST by surrendering to HIM as LORD, (meaning MASTER) as an Act of LOVE for Him; because the Holy Spirit poured GOD's LOVE directly into our heart. Our obedience is ONLY MOTIVATED By GOD's LOVE being in our hearts. ONLY THOSE who continue to produce the Fruits of the Spirit, are truly born again Believers. Baby Chrisitans produce only a little fruit at first, but that is okay, as they will produce more and more as they mature spiritually.


Matthew 7:13-20 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "So then, you will know them by their fruits.


YES, by their FRUIT we can know who is a genuine born again Christian, and the yardstick you use is "How many Laws they KEEP." GENUINE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT ONLY APPEARS WHEN ONE TRUELY and COMPLETELY LOVES THE LORD.


Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.


Those FRUITS (lifestyle characteristics) will appear sooner or later in every born again human spirit.

 

[Studyman]

You try to liken the, "Mainstream Church of Christ's time", to Stephen's death, really? Just more of your scripture twisting and doing back flips to make the bible say what you want it to say, everybody is wrong but you right. You would do yourself a big favor and everyone if you would take a bible course on interpretation of scripture.....back to the "land of ignore"

The Stoning of Stephen

Acts7:54-60
54) When the "members of the Sanhedrin" heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him.
55) But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
56)“Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”
57) At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him,
58) dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.
59) While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”
60) Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.

What are you saying, that there wasn't a "Mainstream God of Abraham preaching church" of Christ's time? The pagans didn't murder Stephen, it was the God of Abraham preaching church of that day.

Acts 6:9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.

10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.11 Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.


Acts 7:11 Then said the high priest, Are these things so?


Acts 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.


Acts 7:54 (ASV) Now when they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

Acts 7:54 (BBE) Hearing these things, they were cut to the heart and moved with wrath against him.

Acts 7:54 (CEB) Once the council members heard these words, they were enraged and began to grind their teeth at Stephen.

Acts 7:54 (CEBA) Once the council members heard these words, they were enraged and began to grind their teeth at Stephen.

Acts 7:54 (CJB) On hearing these things, they were cut to their hearts and ground their teeth at him.

Acts 7:54 (CSB) When they heard these things, they were enraged in their hearts and gnashed their teeth at him.

Acts 7:54 (DBY) And hearing these things they were cut to the heart, and gnashed their teeth against him.

Acts 7:54 (ESV) Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth at him.

Acts 7:54 (GNT) As the members of the Council listened to Stephen, they became furious and ground their teeth at him in anger.

Acts 7:54 (GNTA) As the members of the Council listened to Stephen, they became furious and ground their teeth at him in anger.

Acts 7:54 (GW) As council members listened to Stephen, they became noticeably furious.

Acts 7:54 (HNV) Now when they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth.

Acts 7:54 (JUB) When they heard these things, they were divided in their hearts and gnashed on him with <em>their</em> teeth.

Acts 7:54 (KJV) When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

Acts 7:54 (KJVA) When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart , and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

Acts 7:54 (LEB) Now [when they] heard these [things], they were infuriated in their hearts and gnashed [their] teeth at him.

Acts 7:54 (MSG) At that point they went wild, a rioting mob of catcalls and whistles and invective.

Acts 7:54 (NAS) Now when they heard this, they were cut to the quick, and they began gnashing their teeth at him.

Acts 7:54 (NCV) When the leaders heard this, they became furious. They were so mad they were grinding their teeth at Stephen.

Acts 7:54 (NIRV) When the Sanhedrin heard this, they became very angry. They ground their teeth at Stephen.

Acts 7:54 (NIV) When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him.

Acts 7:54 (NKJV) When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth.

Acts 7:54 (NLT) The Jewish leaders were infuriated by Stephen’s accusation, and they shook their fists at him in rage.

Acts 7:54 (NRS) When they heard these things, they became enraged and ground their teeth at Stephen.

Acts 7:54 (NRSA) When they heard these things, they became enraged and ground their teeth at Stephen.

Gevurot 7:54 (OJB) And hearing these things, they were infuriated in their levavot, and they were grinding their teeth at him.

Acts 7:54 (RHE) Now hearing these things, they were cut to the heart: and they gnashed with their teeth at him.

Acts 7:54 (RSV) Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth against him.

Acts 7:54 (RSVA) Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth against him.

Acts 7:54 (SBLG) Ἀκούοντες δὲ ταῦτα διεπρίοντο ταῖς καρδίαις αὐτῶν καὶ ἔβρυχον τοὺς ὀδόντας ἐπ’ αὐτόν.

Acts 7:54 (TMB) When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed with their teeth at him.

Acts 7:54 (TMBA) When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed with their teeth at him.

Acts 7:54 (TYN) When they hearde these thinges their hertes clave a sunder and they gnasshed on him with their tethe.

Acts 7:54 (WBT) When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with [their] teeth.

Acts 7:54 (WEB) Now when they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth.

Acts 7:54 (WNT) As they listened to these words, they became infuriated and gnashed their teeth at him.

Acts 7:54 (WYC) And they heard these things, and were diversely tormented in their hearts, and they grinded [and gnashed, or grinded,] with teeth on him.

Acts 7:54 (YLT) And hearing these things, they were cut to the hearts, and did gnash the teeth at him;

How is the THEY not referring to the only God of Abraham preaching people on the planet?

You don't have to respond, but you are not rejecting my words, you are rejected the Word's of the Bible.

 

[Studyman]

Feel free to add this here if you would like;

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...accepted-but-cains-offering-not-accepted.html

Thank You,

Very good study

 

[BillG]

The Pharisees were rejected for "Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men", not God. Not sure why people keep trying to Preach that they were obedient to God when Jesus clearly says they were not.

The very reason Jesus qualified to pay our debt is because He was obedient to God's laws. Not sure why people want to take this Glory away from Him.

We are warned about people claiming to be Christians using Gods Word to deceive us. Have you any evidence that Satan deceived folks into obeying God? Or are the example we are given for our admonition examples is Satan deceiving folks into disobedience?

being faithful is being faithful. Abraham was faithful. Jesus was faithful. These are my examples of what being faithful means, not the Pope or Jimmy swaggert

I think we need to ask ourselves a question. Do we follow a church that Transgresses the Commandments of God by man made traditions, or do we have the "Faith OF Jesus.

Sorry I can’t really see how your response to my post correlates.
The only thing I do see is that you are rejecting part of my response as follows

I would say that grace alone saves but it’s the grace of God that brings us to faith.
Amazing grace that saves a wretch like me.

Not sure I get your point about “What is faith?
To me we are justified by faith alone and nothing else.
And yes genuine faith will produce works, I prefer fruit of the Spirit to be honest.

You say that God Jesus did keep God’s sabbaths and Holy days. Did he?

You seem to be saying being faithful is to not transgress the commandments of God.
Yes Jesus did keep them perfectly, and was faithful to God. Therefore he is perfect.

I don’t recall Abraham having any laws to keep (correct me if I am wrong) and he was faithful to do as God asked him.
Yet at times he wasn’t faithful because he didn’t fully trust God at times for his promises. So he was not perfect.

So I don’t think we can draw a comparison between Jesus and Abraham or David or other greats in the bible.
They got it wrong, they transgressed the laws they were under (those under the law).
David should have been put to death for his transgressions yet he wasn’t.

God Loved David because he was a man after his own heart.

Just like anyone who comes to God through Jesus and Jesus alone.

We have FAITH IN JESUS, and not the FAITH OF JESUS.
The faith of Jesus was firstly to completely rely on the Father and continue in the relationship they had before Jesus came to earth. Jesus started his ministry after the Holy Spirit descended upon him.
And as a result we was perfectly obedient.

When we place our faith in Jesus then the Holy Spirit descends on us.
Will be perfectly obedient?
Not being a defeated person here, or a person who uses it as an excuse to sin but the answer is no.

Thats why we the helper, the Holy Spirit who works in us to conform us to the image of Jesus

Yet this is something we should aspire to, to become more like him


Just so you know I am not pushing greasy grace here.

But Just my simple thoughts.

Bill

ps, have I totally misinterpreted you?

 

[Hizikyah]

I don’t recall Abraham having any laws to keep (correct me if I am wrong) and he was faithful to do as God asked him.

Bill

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 26:5, “Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my Laws.”[/FONT]

 

[notmyown]

The scripture you quote comes from the old Testament. The Righteousness of God is revealed from the Old Testament. The Gospel of Christ IS the Old Testament. That is where the Messiah is prophesied. That is where it is taught about Him. That is what Paul teaches in Rom. 1. But this isn't what you preach, or most on this forum. You preach that the Gospel of Christ is not the Old Testament.

<snip... because most of this i won't respond to>

odd you differentiated between the Old and New Testaments. i never did so; it's a leap you made.

what i was talking about was the proper distinction between Law and Gospel. of course the Gospel is visible in the Old Testament. yet the Law and the Gospel were never designed to do the same thing.

this is n-o-t to say the Law has no place in the life of the believer. the Law is spiritual, and good.
do you think God gave us the Law because we can attain righteousness thereby?
or to drive us to our knees and make us realize we need a Savior?

 

[mailmandan]

But here you are demanding people do it on Sunday. That is the whole hypocrisy that phart just exposed.

I NEVER demanded that people MUST keep the Sabbath on Saturday or Sunday under the New Covenant. Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23; 31:12-18; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21; 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13) that is not applicable to Christians under the New Covenant. (Colossians 2:16,17)