Which of Jesus' teachings were applicable only to the Jews?
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Hi, Hizikyah, so you agree that nobody obeys the commandment of Jesus that I mentioned in my previous post (sell your possessions and give the money to the poor).
So, what is being discussed here is of utmost importance for all Christians. Are we all in disobedience? Are we all headed for hell?
I don't think we are all headed for hell because it seems that the commandment "sell your possessions and give the money to the poor" was given specifically to the Jews just to show that it was impossible to be saved by keeping the Law.
I'm here to learn -- I'm not the kind of guy who has all the answers -- and hope God will help us find the truth.
So, what is being discussed here is of utmost importance for all Christians. Are we all in disobedience? Are we all headed for hell?
I don't think we are all headed for hell because it seems that the commandment "sell your possessions and give the money to the poor" was given specifically to the Jews just to show that it was impossible to be saved by keeping the Law.
I'm here to learn -- I'm not the kind of guy who has all the answers -- and hope God will help us find the truth.
I am not sure I agree with you regards that Jesus taught the Jews to keep the law in order to be saved.
I am happy to be corrected here because as I said I am not sure I agree with your quote.
For me the law I consider to be relevant is the 10 commandments. We find that expanded in 613 laws that were then added.
Firstly for me if the Jews could keep the law then in the OT there would have been no need for sacrificial system in place that only covered sin.
Secondly whilst on earth when Jesus talks about the law he talks about the true intent of the law and what it means and how it should work out.
Thirdly Jesus makes it quiet clear that in order to be saved is the following.
John 3:16-17
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
John 6:28-29
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
and Paul reiterates this
Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
just my simple thoughts
I am happy to be corrected here because as I said I am not sure I agree with your quote.
For me the law I consider to be relevant is the 10 commandments. We find that expanded in 613 laws that were then added.
Firstly for me if the Jews could keep the law then in the OT there would have been no need for sacrificial system in place that only covered sin.
Secondly whilst on earth when Jesus talks about the law he talks about the true intent of the law and what it means and how it should work out.
Thirdly Jesus makes it quiet clear that in order to be saved is the following.
John 3:16-17
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
John 6:28-29
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
and Paul reiterates this
Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
just my simple thoughts
Well I can not say that nobody has ver done that, certianly someone had been zealous enough to sell all he owns. From a comon sense view, if Yahshua/Jesus had made different ways for Jews and Gentiles that would be unfair, and an uneven measure. We know Yah's ways are fair, (Ezekiyl 18) And Scripture says there is only one way, and in that way there is no Jew and no Gentile, but only those in Messiah;
Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah יהושע. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”
Also It is not my place to say who isgoingto the Kingdom and who is not, I am not the judge, I can not even judge myself.
1 Corinthians 4:4-5, “For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is יהוה! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from יהוה.”
Also, I believe everything Yahshua/Jesus said is to be applied in the lives of His followers.
John 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”
Scripture says no one is without sin;
Ecclesiastes 7:20, “For there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and does not sin.”
Yet we can have mercy if we confess and repent;
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
Acts 3:19, "Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out; that times of refreshing may come from the presence of YHWH."
Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah יהושע. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”
Also It is not my place to say who isgoingto the Kingdom and who is not, I am not the judge, I can not even judge myself.
1 Corinthians 4:4-5, “For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is יהוה! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from יהוה.”
Also, I believe everything Yahshua/Jesus said is to be applied in the lives of His followers.
John 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”
Scripture says no one is without sin;
Ecclesiastes 7:20, “For there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and does not sin.”
Yet we can have mercy if we confess and repent;
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
Acts 3:19, "Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out; that times of refreshing may come from the presence of YHWH."
I don't think some people really know what Jesus taught, because if they did, they would fear. They would tremble. If they truly believed in the words of Jesus as they profess and apply it to themselves today, they would stand before God condemned. That is exactly the point of His words that seem so extreme (and rightly so).
Yes I do agree with you here.
To me the reality is that Paul did not contradict anything Jesus said concerning salvation. Not sure how many posts will arrive before I finish this one but I have given my thoughts concerning what I feel Jesus said concerning salvation.
So to me there is no conflict here.
I think part of the problem is that we Gentiles when we look at Paul’s teachings concerning works do not save is what works He is actually addressing and to whom he is addressing and what it means.
Even Peter says
2 Peter 3:16
16 speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.
To me the reality is that Paul did not contradict anything Jesus said concerning salvation. Not sure how many posts will arrive before I finish this one but I have given my thoughts concerning what I feel Jesus said concerning salvation.
So to me there is no conflict here.
I think part of the problem is that we Gentiles when we look at Paul’s teachings concerning works do not save is what works He is actually addressing and to whom he is addressing and what it means.
Even Peter says
2 Peter 3:16
16 speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.
I had a friend some 30 years ago who attempted to do that -- he gave away most of his possessions. He would rebuke other Christians (some pastors included) for not obeying Jesus. I remember what one of the pastors told him: "Whenever in doubt, I follow Paul rather than Jesus, because Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles, and he never said we are supposed to give away all we have".
This guy, in a few years, went in deep poverty and had to be supported by his friends. Today he is an airline pilot, owns an apartment, a car, has health insurance, etc., and still is a Christian.
This guy, in a few years, went in deep poverty and had to be supported by his friends. Today he is an airline pilot, owns an apartment, a car, has health insurance, etc., and still is a Christian.
7
well this is actually from another site...I linked to the source
apparently, people actually believe Jesus taught one thing and Paul another
and it seems 'works' are taken to mean you put yourself 'under the law'
I found the article on CARM pretty good and disagree that Jesus taught one thing and Paul another
I even found a site entitled Jesus vs James
so there yah go!
7
this is the type of nonsense that is brought to the table by folks wanting to 'prove' that Paul taught something different from Jesus
since you seem to think he did, what do you think of Paul saying he wishes the Judaizers would cut off their entire genitalia and not just talk about circumcision
do you think Paul wanted them to go ahead and do that?
let's be adults here and recognize that Jesus spoke in parables and also used hyperbole...let's not try and make someone appear stupid because they think that Jesus wanted them to go and poke their eye out when He went around healing people
thanks for my input?
that's really cute
Yet we don;t know if he is going to the kingdom or not, that is Yah's choice, these things are all earthly measurements; airline pilot, owns an apartment, a car, has health insurance, etc.
The religion is commonly called Christianity not Paulianity, bottom line Paul did not die for me, and Paul is not the judge, Paulis not High Priest, Paul is not my savior. Yahshua gave Himself for me, Yahshua is the One Shepherd, Yahshua is High Priest, Yahshua is the Judge, Yahshua is the Salvation of YHWH.
I personally could not tell Yahshua well, I didn't listen to you because Paul was my shepherd.
John/Yahanan 10:27-30, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; neither will any man snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand: I and My Father are in accord."
Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”
Also I want to say He said He came for Israel, yet it is not always blood Israelites who are truly Israel;
Mat 15:24, “And He answering, said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra’yl.”
Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Yisra’yl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."
Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Yisra’yl who belongs to Yisra’yl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."
I humbly petition you to hear His voice, He gave Himself for you, He wants you to do His will.
The religion is commonly called Christianity not Paulianity, bottom line Paul did not die for me, and Paul is not the judge, Paulis not High Priest, Paul is not my savior. Yahshua gave Himself for me, Yahshua is the One Shepherd, Yahshua is High Priest, Yahshua is the Judge, Yahshua is the Salvation of YHWH.
I personally could not tell Yahshua well, I didn't listen to you because Paul was my shepherd.
John/Yahanan 10:27-30, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; neither will any man snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand: I and My Father are in accord."
Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”
Also I want to say He said He came for Israel, yet it is not always blood Israelites who are truly Israel;
Mat 15:24, “And He answering, said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra’yl.”
Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Yisra’yl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."
Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Yisra’yl who belongs to Yisra’yl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."
I humbly petition you to hear His voice, He gave Himself for you, He wants you to do His will.
I like CARM Although What I posted was not from that sight, Just my thoughts.
I took time to research myself using the bible and commentaries.
To me there cannot be a contradiction between what we know Jesus taught and said in the Gospels and what find in the books after that.
If memory serves me I think Peter had to be corrected.
If there were to be any contradictions in the NT then we have a real problem, cause if there is then the bible is not infallible.
And If it’s not we may as put it on the bookshelf to gather dust.
Having said that when we don’t understand something then we need to be like the Bereans.
I took time to research myself using the bible and commentaries.
To me there cannot be a contradiction between what we know Jesus taught and said in the Gospels and what find in the books after that.
If memory serves me I think Peter had to be corrected.
If there were to be any contradictions in the NT then we have a real problem, cause if there is then the bible is not infallible.
And If it’s not we may as put it on the bookshelf to gather dust.
Having said that when we don’t understand something then we need to be like the Bereans.
Seven Seas, God knows I was not being ironic when I said "thanks for your input". My big mistake was to ask "Have you already sold your possessions and given the money to the poor?" instead of "do you know any Christian who has sold his possessions and given the money to the poor?"
I really beg your pardon.
I really beg your pardon.
If I may humbly interject 
Jesus was exposing the lie that the Rich man had deceived himself with. No true believer would ever say they obeyed God from their youth and Jesus knew this. Of course when told to sell his possessions, he couldn't because he was in transgression of the very first and greatest commandment. He placed his possessions over God.
I think it is a mistake to say Jesus created another Commandment apart from His Father. Rather, He used this event as a teaching moment for those who were listening.
We can contrast this rich man with Abraham. God told Abraham to take his only son and kill him in sacrifice to God.
Unlike the rich man, Abraham obeyed. Abraham, in his mind, sacrificed his son. Whether God allowed it to physically happen or not is irrelevant to the example. Abraham placed God above all else as the First Commandment requires.
But we don't go around saying God created a new law that we need to sacrifice our own children to God to prove our faith, just like we shouldn't go around saying Jesus created a new law to sell what we have and give the money to random poor people to prove our faith.
Good question and topic, I hope you don't mind me crashing you and Hizikyah conversation.
Jesus was exposing the lie that the Rich man had deceived himself with. No true believer would ever say they obeyed God from their youth and Jesus knew this. Of course when told to sell his possessions, he couldn't because he was in transgression of the very first and greatest commandment. He placed his possessions over God.
I think it is a mistake to say Jesus created another Commandment apart from His Father. Rather, He used this event as a teaching moment for those who were listening.
We can contrast this rich man with Abraham. God told Abraham to take his only son and kill him in sacrifice to God.
Unlike the rich man, Abraham obeyed. Abraham, in his mind, sacrificed his son. Whether God allowed it to physically happen or not is irrelevant to the example. Abraham placed God above all else as the First Commandment requires.
But we don't go around saying God created a new law that we need to sacrifice our own children to God to prove our faith, just like we shouldn't go around saying Jesus created a new law to sell what we have and give the money to random poor people to prove our faith.
Good question and topic, I hope you don't mind me crashing you and Hizikyah conversation.
Of course, doing works and being under the law are two different ideas.
I've also heard that Jesus and Paul conflict.
Actually, they don't. Jesus said we will be judged by our works.
Paul said works are necessary. It's just that Paul spoke a lot about grace and this is taken to mean something he did not mean. Paul is not easy to understand and many think that because they are under grace they are not to do anything for God.
The question of the OP is interesting.
I believe that what Jesus said and preached and taught is for everyone who believes in Him.
That's what being a disciple is. Nothing He said was ONLY for the Jews. I can't think of anything...
I've also heard that Jesus and Paul conflict.
Actually, they don't. Jesus said we will be judged by our works.
Paul said works are necessary. It's just that Paul spoke a lot about grace and this is taken to mean something he did not mean. Paul is not easy to understand and many think that because they are under grace they are not to do anything for God.
The question of the OP is interesting.
I believe that what Jesus said and preached and taught is for everyone who believes in Him.
That's what being a disciple is. Nothing He said was ONLY for the Jews. I can't think of anything...
Yes Studyman I totally agree with you here.
If you don’t mind can I say the following?
Me thinks that the rich man didn’t know he fell foul of the first commandment and the next three but when Jesus took it to another level he went away.
Then he placed possessions over God.
Good call with Jesus exposing the lie.
If you don’t mind can I say the following?
Me thinks that the rich man didn’t know he fell foul of the first commandment and the next three but when Jesus took it to another level he went away.
Then he placed possessions over God.
Good call with Jesus exposing the lie.
When people set a date when it is the end of the world,and some people believe it,do they sell all their possessions,and and give to the poor,and give all their money to the poor,for they will not need it,and since it is the end of the world they might as well let the poor and needy whoop it up,and live good,and taste the finest foods,and play with motorcycles,and such,and live lavishly before the end.Let them have the good life before they perish.
Do they still go to work even if they have enough money to last until the end of the world.
For if they do not let the poor have a good time,and still go to work,do they really believe it is the end of the world,and have doubt.
Do they still go to work even if they have enough money to last until the end of the world.
For if they do not let the poor have a good time,and still go to work,do they really believe it is the end of the world,and have doubt.