Not By Works

[PHart]

No, it is you who does not know what it means. It means anything in your life that is not of faith, is sin. That would include bad theology. I know the discussion was about certain meats that some thought it was sin to eat. Whatsoever is a reference to anything. ANYTHING, means ANYTHING, in my BIBLE.

Here's the passage:

"22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.[SUP]c[/SUP]" (Romans 14: NASB)

Paul is saying that if you do something that you're not sure you are entitled to do--IOW, you do not have faith that it's okay to do--then you are sinning if you do it. But the church always use this passage to condemn people who purposely seek to do good works as if doing that automatically and without exception means that is your flesh doing it and is not the result of faith working in you to do that, and so you are sinning.

Context, people, context!


And by the way, this is the exact reason why you need to leave our believing law keeping brethren alone and let them do what they believe they must do by virtue of conscience to serve God. In fact, Paul says we are the one's sinning if we persuade them to go against their conscience and not obey the way they believe they must obey.

 

[Nevrose]

Not by works, but by unconditional love for God , his teachings and living a good life. Volunteering practices, helping the needy and lonely even widows, practical living example of the teachings. Finally not by works but by a true and sincere acceptance of Jesus christ as your true lord and savior. God bless us...Amen

 

[stonesoffire]

Context, stones, context! You're ignoring an essential part of the passage:

"24As for you (in contrast to those who left--vs.19), let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father." (1 John 2:24 NASB)​

OSAS always leaves out this essential part of the passage that defies the automatic conclusion of OSAS that once you believe and are saved you will always be in Christ and, therefore, saved. It's like a blindness.

Baptized into His body. You have to put all the scriptures together Phart for truth.

As I just posted to another on another thread...we have died with Jesus Christ. Risen to new life in Him. The finished work goes on and on in our life. Finished for Jesus...active for us as we rest in Him. Out of that rest is how we live and move and have our being "in Him".

We are His body and greatly loved!

You put too much emphasis on self. Salvation is completed by God. We believe Him. And do works of the Spirit.

I think people here need the baptism of Holy Spirit...go beyond Passover into Pentecost. Then maybe we will be the same in our understanding. For we are no longer natural beings but supernatural, and works should be the same works that Jesus did.

 

[dcontroversal]

And now you make scriptures a deception that when people prove you wrong through scriptures, they are deceiving and your words are the truth.

Aren't you the one deceiving people here and causes division with an argument based on your own interpretation without considering the absolute truth in the bible which clearly states that it is " NOT BY WORKS" and not "WITHOUT(VOID OF)WORKS" as you usually claim by saying that FAITH ALONE SAVES(void of works).

With your deception, you resort to rejecting the plain truth in the ff: verses,

James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

.and the many other verses on post#1614 which you blatantly rejected by way of saying that they don't have any bearing on this thread. Not to mention the truths in the scripture posted by the SDA's w/c you as well rejected to the point of saying that (rephrased) even if they post the whole bible it will not change your view or belief. (Excuse me if I can't recall the exact words).

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

Say something of value or please by all means do not address me...you cannot but twist everything and it is getting old!

 

[stonesoffire]

back later...

 

[Studyman]

Baptized into His body. You have to put all the scriptures together Phart for truth.

As I just posted to another on another thread...we have died with Jesus Christ. Risen to new life in Him. The finished work goes on and on in our life. Finished for Jesus...active for us as we rest in Him. Out of that rest is how we live and move and have our being "in Him".

We are His body and greatly loved!

You put too much emphasis on self. Salvation is completed by God. We believe Him. And do works of the Spirit.

I think people here need the baptism of Holy Spirit...go beyond Passover into Pentecost. Then maybe we will be the same in our understanding. For we are no longer natural beings but supernatural, and works should be the same works that Jesus did.

My friend, there is no Pentecost without "Feast of Unleavened Bread." Passover (Grace) without Feast of Unleavened Bread (Repentance) IS Faith without works and therefore is dead.

1 Cor. 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, (Repent)that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Grace comes to all men, but repentance does not.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Matt. 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham( or God, or Jesus) to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham (or God or Jesus).

This is the message of Jesus and Paul to us.

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.



21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.

This is the true message of Christ. Passover (Grace)

Feast of Unleavened Bread, a 7 day Feast symbolizing continued repentance.

Then "Feast of Weeks" or Pentecost, which is admittance into God's Church of the First fruits of those Saints that Sleep. (Abraham and all the other examples of Faith, and those who have it.


Good post SOF

 

[PHart]

You put too much emphasis on self.

No, I don't put too much emphasis on self, lol.

What I do is not negate the necessity for the person to do the believing required to access and keep all that God does for us in justification/ salvation. Sadly, the frontlet of Calvinistic thought presently imprisoning the church has caused so many people in the church to release themselves from their responsibility in laying hold of and keeping the salvation of God through a continued believing in and seeking of God.

Salvation is completed by God. We believe Him. And do works of the Spirit.

If it is not an emphasis on self when you say this, then neither is it when I say it.

Nobody is saved because of some inherent power to save themselves. People are saved because they believe in, and continue to believe in God who saves.

I think people here need the baptism of Holy Spirit...go beyond Passover into Pentecost. Then maybe we will be the same in our understanding.

Lol, that's actually the exact thing I've been saying to myself all along. I think this is at the core of the problem in the church today, perpetuated by an un-anointed leadership who themselves do not know the truth. The church doesn't search things out for themselves through the gifts of the Spirit. Instead they become proficient at knowing and articulating what a misguided leadership has taught them. And they call that being illuminated with truth.

For we are no longer natural beings but supernatural, and works should be the same works that Jesus did.

This is not in disagreement. What is in disagreement is I'm not like most people in the church who think this happens when and if God makes it happen in you apart from any input on your part to facilitate it, and if God doesn't do that, all is still well because as you folks love to say, "salvation is soooooo not of works, so it don't matter", lol. Oblivious to the fact that fruitlessness is the warning sign of a failure of belief in Christ's forgiveness and the reality of the coming Judgment when the presence of justifying faith will be measured by what each man has done in his life, not by your gums flapping up and down saying, "salvation is by faith alone".

Justification is indeed by faith apart from works (Romans 4:6), but that hardly means justifying faith can be alone (void of works) and it still be justifying faith. That kind of faith (faith alone--minus works) will save no one on the day of Judgment. Only faith that can be seen in a lifestyle of ever increasing right living will save you on the Day of Judgment.

Prove to yourself that you have and are continuing in the the faith that justifies/saves: Obey God when the temptation to do wrong comes. Don't let your hearts be hardened in unbelief by the deceitfulness of sin and an ear tickling OSAS doctrine that winks at sin. If you do, Christ will catch you unawares when he appears and you will be denied entrance into the kingdom on the basis of unbelief and lawlessness, your life being the evidence of that slide back into unbelief.


2See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end. 15As has just been said:“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion.”[SUP]c[/SUP]

16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt?

 

[BillG]

I did a good work today.

I asked Jesus to help me become more like him and be the person he has asked me to be.
Also to get to know more.
I did get it wrong quiet a few times today but when I wake up tomorrow I am going to ask the same thing.

Thats all I can offer him every day.

 

[PHart]

I did a good work today.

I asked Jesus to help me become more like him and be the person he has asked me to be.
Also to get to know more.
I did get it wrong quiet a few times today but when I wake up tomorrow I am going to ask the same thing.

Thats all I can offer him every day.

Nothing wrong with that. "Draw near to God and he will draw near to you" (James 4:8 NASB).

Just be sure to not quench the Spirit when he draws near. Respond with the obedience he is empowering in you. You and me, both.

 

[PHart]

Just be sure to not quench the Spirit when he draws near. Respond with the obedience he is empowering in you. You and me, both.

I wish it were just automatic, as so many are led to believe, and if it's not automatic it's you trying to be obedient in your flesh and trying to save yourself, lol, so you should just do nothing. I wish it did just happen automatically and if it doesn't all is still good.

 

[Issachar92]

I wish it were just automatic, as so many are led to believe, and if it's not automatic it's you trying to be obedient in your flesh and trying to save yourself, lol, so you should just do nothing. I wish it did just happen automatically and if it doesn't all is still good.

Yup. Best not to try, you do ANYTHING you are trying to save yourself. And thats the worst sin there is, you're damned for sure. God just told us to repent and do this and that to show us we cant do anything and just gotta trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross.
I mean sure there isnt any verses for this but, lets not get into pharisee land here.

 

[LittleGirl]

Not by works, but by unconditional love for God , his teachings and living a good life. Volunteering practices, helping the needy and lonely even widows, practical living example of the teachings. Finally not by works but by a true and sincere acceptance of Jesus christ as your true lord and savior. God bless us...Amen

Nevrose, following along.
You said NOT BY WORKS but by unconditional love for God...
His teachings
living a good life
volunteering
helping the needy
practical living example...

Then you said, "finally not by works..."

Could you please explain how the above in the list you posted are not works?

Thanks.

 

[BillG]

I wish it were just automatic, as so many are led to believe, and if it's not automatic it's you trying to be obedient in your flesh and trying to save yourself, lol, so you should just do nothing.

I wish it were automatic as well. You know my struggles.
I pray all the time “God just deliver me from my struggles, just take them away now”
Trying to obedient to my flesh, and yes for me thinking being obedient to the flesh would save me and not my faith.

However with what I ever struggled/struggle with I will not let go and I well seek him every day.

What I find amazing and humbling is that the struggles I have worked through with God he is now helping me to help others.

Afterall what use would I be to others who still struggle with the same? Not much use at all.

As for me I am not a just do nothing person, Although at times I have felt like giving up but I can’t do that.

I know Jesus is real I know who he is and I will keep pressing in to him.

To me even in my darkest days I asked God to take my life so I would know where I was going. Heaven or Hell?

Started to realise when I kept waking up then there must be a reason and a purpose.

Romans 8:27-29
27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

God has used my struggles that he has dealt with to help others.
Not boasting but truly thankful that he is helping me to come alongside others.
Fellow believers and non believers.

Without Jesus there is no hope but because of Jesus there is hope.

 

[VCO]

WE HAVE A NEW SPEED RECORD. SOMEONE BY THE NAME OF TANNER 13, Joined Christian Chat today and was BANNED today.

 

[Studyman]

Yup. Best not to try, you do ANYTHING you are trying to save yourself. And thats the worst sin there is, you're damned for sure. God just told us to repent and do this and that to show us we cant do anything and just gotta trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross.
I mean sure there isnt any verses for this but, lets not get into pharisee land here.

That's right,

I'm saved, by God, and nothing Moses, Jesus or God Almighty can do or say will change that!!!!!!!!!

 

[VCO]

Nevrose, following along.
You said NOT BY WORKS but by unconditional love for God...
His teachings
living a good life
volunteering
helping the needy
practical living example...

Then you said, "finally not by works..."

Could you please explain how the above in the list you posted are not works?

Thanks.

May I give you my understanding?

I hope you will not object.


Yes the second you choose to receive JESUS as LORD (meaning Master), is the SAME second the HOLY SPIRIT enters your heart, births your dead human spirit into eternal life, and Pours GOD's LOVE directly into your heart, (Rom.5:5). Having GOD's LOVE sown into your Heart (human spirit); WILL PRODUCE AN ABUNDANT HARVEST OF DEEDS MOTIVED BY GOD'S LOVE IN YOUR HEART. The deeds have NOTHING TO DO WITH GETTING or KEEPING you SAVED, but simply are a way to reflect that special LOVE back to Christ, GOD the Father, and our fellow mankind. THAT SPECIAL LOVE is proof the HOLY SPIRIT IS IN OUR HEARTS, maturing our FAITH.

 

[dcontroversal]

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day

In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation.

In other words, they DO NOT BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan (they do his will instead of God's will), as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

What is this food? John 6:54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 "For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. Of course, Jesus was not talking about "literally" eating His flesh and "literally" drinking His blood, as taught in Roman Catholicism, the false doctrine of transubstantiation. As He was accustomed, Jesus used figurative language to emphasize these great spiritual truths. Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage when He says, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63)

"He who believes" in Christ is equivalent to "he who eats this bread" because the result is the same, eternal life.

"Everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day" (verse 40).

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life" (verse 47).

"Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day" (verse 54).

"He who eats this bread will live forever" (verse 58).

With that being said, the people who Jesus had just explained to labor for the food which does not perish in (John 6:27), then asked Him in verse 28, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? They missed the point that eternal life is Christ's free gift received through faith and they were thinking in terms of obtaining it by works. But Jesus answers: "The work of God is that you BELIEVE IN HIM whom He sent" (John 6:29).

So to labor for the food which endures to eternal life involves a great struggle against conflict between obtaining salvation by works and obtaining salvation through believing in Him.

Amen and I have yet to see a worker for accurately describe works of wood, hay and stubble of a saved man in light of the fact that works of gold, silver and precious stones = a saved, faithful servant of Jesus.

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 4:13, “And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all are naked and laid bare before the eyes of Him with whom is our account.”[/FONT]

 

[VCO]

That's right,

I'm saved, by God, and nothing Moses, Jesus or God Almighty can do or say will change that!!!!!!!!!

Please define how you were saved and how you know it.

 

[BillG]

Amen and I have yet to see a worker for accurately describe works of wood, hay and stubble of a saved man in light of the fact that works of gold, silver and precious stones = a saved, faithful servant of Jesus.

They cant because such works of wood and so on they prescribe as not being saved.
If you don’t do or can’t do then your out.

No idea that actually genuine believers can struggle with sin and maybe don’t overcome but seek Jesus in help and humilty.

Focus is “I can do this to be like Jesus rather than saying Jesus I want to be like you”

Subtle difference