baptism

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PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
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Do you believe you were born with a sin nature?
Do you believe you still have one?
I was born human, and some would call that a sin nature.
But I was reborn without it and was given a divine nature for my walk in Christ.
I am a new creature now, thanks be to God!
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
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I'll be looking up re the word Practice being added.
This is interesting.
Think of it this way...Fig trees cannot bear grapes.
Those reborn of God's seed cannot bring forth evil fruit.
One sin shows whose child are.
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
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I would never denigrate the true apostles of the Lord, and Scripture says that there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb. These twelve will sit on 12 thrones, ruling the 12 tribes of Israel in the future. But anyone claiming to be an apostle today is a charlatan. I trust you do not consider yourself an apostle, otherwise Christians would have to regard you as a charlatan.
The gift of apostleship has not been given to me, but I see no reason that there can't be apostles on earth still today.

This sounds like a doctrine of devils. Those who have been born again are written in the Lamb's book of life, and will never face the second death (which is the Lake of Fire).
I don't know why you would say that.
We are still required to "endure till the end".
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
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this is what the Holy Spirit says to you:
5 And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. I John 1
Amen!
I thank God for removing me from the ways of darkness, and for allowing me to confess my past sins, and to be washed with the blood of Christ, and for allowing me to remain in the light-where there is no sin.
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
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the cult mindset will always find one thing and make a religion out of it while stating that no one but those in the cult have achieved whatever thing they deem they have made hallowed by their own efforts
you are not free in a cult
you are only free in Christ Jesus and He alone makes us free because He alone is truth
He is the Way (to God), the Truth (in and of all things) and the Life.
Are you alleging that there is sin in Christ?
As you deem freedom from sin "cultish", it seems you prefer a religion based on accepting wickedness.
I hope I am wrong.
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
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You say you became a Christian in 2004. Are you really telling us you have not sinned for 13 years now?
Yes sir.
All the credit goes to God.
It is written..."[FONT=&quot]There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)

You gotta' look for the escapes.[/FONT]
 
Oct 16, 2017
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Think of it this way...Fig trees cannot bear grapes.
Those reborn of God's seed cannot bring forth evil fruit.
One sin shows whose child are.
I did look up the word "practice" for 1 John 3:9.
Indeed some bibles do not have the word "practice" and neither does YLT.

Regarding the sin nature...
You said above that since you've been reborn you no longer have the sin nature.
I do dislike that the word "nature" is there because our nature does change and we acquire once again the
"nature" that God intended for us from the beginning... to be more like Him.

But, are you saying you don't sin anymore?
If you do sin, WHAT is making you sin if not the sin nature?

I believe it's kept under submission to the Holy Spirit and though we will sin in thought, word, or deed,
it will be kept to a minimum due to His help.
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
Are you alleging that there is sin in Christ?
As you deem freedom from sin "cultish", it seems you prefer a religion based on accepting wickedness.
I hope I am wrong.

you have me mixed up with someone else

John the apostle talks about you and the rest of us in the following from I John 1

apparently anyone who says the have no sin is a liar

choose to say that does not apply to you and John, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, calls you a liar and states you do not have fellowship with Jesus and the Father

that's serious stuff and not my words


5 And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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when studying scripture, people don't normally try to discover some obscure, possible root word, based on the fact that both words happen to deal with water. The word the inspired authors of the books wrote is easy enough to understand.

It is your own search to "disprove" immersion as the correct method of baptism that leads you to look for "possible" root words.

YOU completely ignore the fact that if the writers wanted to talk about foot washing and all kinds of "possible" symbolism, they would have USED the Greek word for that. They would NOT have used a commonly known Greek word that means exactly what it says.... to immerse.

Any attempt to minimize, change, or alter that meaning is purely a man-made desire to have the word say what YOU want it to say....

Much like the JW's did with John 1:1..... just re-write it the way you want it....
My search is to understand the Word of God. Your rejection of possible roots for the word baptism demonstrates that you reject anything that might be contrary to your beliefs on the topic. Can't have any cognitive dissonance bothering you with possible conflicting views on it. Immersion only and anything possibly allowing other methods must be rejected out of hand no matter how scriptural they might be. It is impossible to have an open discussion with you about this issue. You ignore the fact that many Biblically oriented denominations practice other forms of baptism claiming them to be Biblical. Your way or the highway!!! You are right and all of those Bible believing churches are wrong. Not a bit conceited are you??? Pull the log out of your eye.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,115
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My search is to understand the Word of God. Your rejection of possible roots for the word baptism demonstrates that you reject anything that might be contrary to your beliefs on the topic. Can't have any cognitive dissonance bothering you with possible conflicting views on it. Immersion only and anything possibly allowing other methods must be rejected out of hand no matter how scriptural they might be. It is impossible to have an open discussion with you about this issue. You ignore the fact that many Biblically oriented denominations practice other forms of baptism claiming them to be Biblical. Your way or the highway!!! You are right and all of those Bible believing churches are wrong. Not a bit conceited are you??? Pull the log out of your eye.
Wrong on all counts.

All I try to do is read the Word, and accept it for what it says.

I don't try to parse words and dream up possible remote connections to "possible" root words that don't exist, in order to prove my points.

The Word speaks pretty plainly... I simply choose to accept it the way the inspired authors wrote it.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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no... it has not been said....

very good clarification of that scripture. :)
Where are the scriptures defining how baptism was accomplished? Where does it say immersion only. You keep ignoring that request. Raising red herring issues about Strongs statements on words used today ignores the fact that baptism was not a word in 1 AD. Immersion only is very decidedly denomination oriented. The Catholic Church has used all three methods going back to its earliest days. They prefer sprinkling since it is much easier to use. Many Bible centered denominations use the different methods. But you know better than all of the them. Where are the scriptures defining how baptism is done??? Get your ego out of it and provide proof that is non denominational. You remind me of devout Baptists, immersion only.
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
6
0
I did look up the word "practice" for 1 John 3:9.
Indeed some bibles do not have the word "practice" and neither does YLT.

Regarding the sin nature...
You said above that since you've been reborn you no longer have the sin nature.
I do dislike that the word "nature" is there because our nature does change and we acquire once again the
"nature" that God intended for us from the beginning... to be more like Him.

But, are you saying you don't sin anymore?
If you do sin, WHAT is making you sin if not the sin nature?

I believe it's kept under submission to the Holy Spirit and though we will sin in thought, word, or deed,
it will be kept to a minimum due to His help.
I don't sin any more.
I am reborn of God's seed and that seed cannot bring forth evil fruit. (! John 3:9)
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
6
0
you have me mixed up with someone else

John the apostle talks about you and the rest of us in the following from I John 1

apparently anyone who says the have no sin is a liar

They are liars, if they are walking in darkness.
Those who walk in the light have had ALL their sins washed away by the blood of Christ.

And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
If your interpretation of verse 8 is correct, that it is aimed at those in the light, then verse 7 and 9 are lies.
I know better though, and I walk in the light where there is no sin.
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
6
0
Where are the scriptures defining how baptism was accomplished? Where does it say immersion only. You keep ignoring that request. Raising red herring issues about Strongs statements on words used today ignores the fact that baptism was not a word in 1 AD. Immersion only is very decidedly denomination oriented. The Catholic Church has used all three methods going back to its earliest days. They prefer sprinkling since it is much easier to use. Many Bible centered denominations use the different methods. But you know better than all of the them. Where are the scriptures defining how baptism is done??? Get your ego out of it and provide proof that is non denominational. You remind me of devout Baptists, immersion only.
Which "kind" of baptism equates to burial? (Col 2:12)
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
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must be done in Jesus name. acts 2:38
You are going to place your salvation on one verse in one book of the Bible. If you take away the book of Acts where would you be? Not only that, none of the epistles write about water baptism.

Romans 6:4 "
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

If we read on Romans 7:6 it tells us what that newness is,
“But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.”

Because we are all baptized in the Spirit to be members of the body of Christ or to be united to Him.

I Corinthians 12:13
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.”

It is by the Spirit's baptism that we are united to Christ in His death and resurrection, not by water.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,115
1,745
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Where are the scriptures defining how baptism was accomplished? Where does it say immersion only. You keep ignoring that request. Raising red herring issues about Strongs statements on words used today ignores the fact that baptism was not a word in 1 AD. Immersion only is very decidedly denomination oriented. The Catholic Church has used all three methods going back to its earliest days. They prefer sprinkling since it is much easier to use. Many Bible centered denominations use the different methods. But you know better than all of the them. Where are the scriptures defining how baptism is done??? Get your ego out of it and provide proof that is non denominational. You remind me of devout Baptists, immersion only.
You are correct, in that the word "baptize" didn't exist. That is a word that was created by Biblical translators, at least as early as 1611, possibly earlier than that.

The word was CREATED to cover, or allow baptism by sprinkling or pouring. The RCC had drifted away from the scriptural method of baptism (immersion), so when the Bible was being translated into the common language, they could not translate baptizo correctly, because it would show the error in their doctrine.

If you look at the word used, baptizo, and look at the actual, literal Greek translation of that word, it is "to immerse"...

So, Acts 2:38, if translated literally, would say "repent, and be immersed for the forgiveness of your sins...."

Any other interpretation of that verse is nothing more than a man-made attempt to change what the Word clearly states.

And, there is NO scriptural support for considering baptism simply a ceremonial "washing of the feet"....
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,115
1,745
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You are going to place your salvation on one verse in one book of the Bible. If you take away the book of Acts where would you be? Not only that, none of the epistles write about water baptism.

Romans 6:4 "
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

If we read on Romans 7:6 it tells us what that newness is,
“But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.”

Because we are all baptized in the Spirit to be members of the body of Christ or to be united to Him.

I Corinthians 12:13
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.”

It is by the Spirit's baptism that we are united to Christ in His death and resurrection, not by water.
You are wrong.... in the gospels, baptism by immersion is mentioned on several occasions. Everyone knew what baptism was.. it was immersion in water.

Before the Acts was written, there was no baptism into the new kingdom.... there WAS no new kingdom, until Jesus died and was resurrected, and returned to the side of God.

There was NO concept of a "spiritual baptism" back then. If baptism was mentioned, it was universally understood that it meant immersion in water.... that's what the word MEANS.

If the apostles were bringing a totally new meaning to the word, they would have specified "Repent and be baptized, and, hey, guys, we're not talking about the normal baptism that you are familiar with, we're talking only about a spiritual baptism! No water involved!"

Spiritual baptism occurs (IMO) at the same time water baptism does. It's the only way that fits with scripture. When we are immersed in water, we are also being immersed in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus... which is the spiritual baptism.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
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I don't sin any more.
I am reborn of God's seed and that seed cannot bring forth evil fruit. (! John 3:9)
Wow!! You make Paul into a weakling. Look at verse 14 etc.

Romans 7 New International Version (NIV)


Released From the Law, Bound to Christ
Chapter 7
1. Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.


4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.


The Law and Sin
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.


13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.


14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.


21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!


So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.