Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,085
3,677
113
Anybody who says there is nothing you can do, say, or think, or believe that can forfeit your salvation is saying grace is a license to sin.
If that's true then there's no hope for any of us, including you my friend.

I have never come across a believer who thinks grace is a "license to sin". That may be the thought of the world, but not the thought of a new creature in Christ.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
Anybody who says there is nothing you can do, say, or think, or believe that can forfeit your salvation is saying grace is a license to sin.
You're of the same ilk of those false accusers mentioned in Romans 3:8. Through the same misunderstanding and rejection of the true Gospel, you slander others with false accusations in ignorance. (If it is perhaps ignorance)
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,012
4,429
113
I think it is time we all stopped the hating on.. imagine those in need coming in and reading this thread.. we are becoming disgraceful.. GOD help us love and forgive.. myself came close today to reporting a post.. I never have reported anyone here.. I would never report for different beliefs.. but remarks like using weed killer.. is passive aggressive hate.. we really must stop the hate.

Love and Truth in a patient manner for the Glory of Heavenly Father and Our Lord and Saviour.. come on Children of the Most High Let the Light shine to the world.. here and everywhere.
its of little wonder why people snub the church today.
If we can’t love each other how on earth are we going to love those who want to know Jesus.
Broken, hurt and needy people.

John 13:34-35 (NKJV)
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
 
P

PHart

Guest
Anybody who says there is nothing you can do, say, or think, or believe that can forfeit your salvation is saying grace is a license to sin.
Oh, and if anybody wants to argue that God keeps us from doing or believing anything that can cause us to forfeit our salvation that's still saying that one can lose their salvation, it's just that God won't let us do that.

So, which is it folks? Is grace a license to sin in that there is nothing you do or say or believe that can forfeit your salvation, or does God makes sure we don't do that which can forfeit our salvation? I might start a poll on this in another thread.

Either answer obliterates popular OSAS teaching. So let's just go with the Bible says folks: You are saved as long as you are believing.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
Compromising the Gospel isn't "love." No apologies.

Perhaps some should go sign the ECT document and Manhattan Declaration.

Philippians 1:7, 16.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,012
4,429
113
If that's true then there's no hope for any of us, including you my friend.

I have never come across a believer who thinks grace is a "license to sin". That may be the thought of the world, but not the thought of a new creature in Christ.
Cant say I have either.
I have come accross a few who take sin lightly though.
Also come across many many people who are at the opposite end.
They carry the guilt and cndemnation of their sin with them, then end up trying to work it off.

Very sad as either way it affects our relationship with a Father who loves us so much.
He wants us to come to him and be truthful and when we do he can then walk with us in our situations.
He is a God of love and restoration.
 
P

PHart

Guest
You're of the same ilk of those false accusers mentioned in Romans 3:8. Through the same misunderstanding and rejection of the true Gospel, you slander others with false accusations in ignorance. (If it is perhaps ignorance)
'Ilk' is a derogatory term. Is this how you should be talking to people you consider unbelievers?
 
P

PHart

Guest
Compromising the Gospel isn't "love." No apologies.

Perhaps some should go sign the ECT document and Manhattan Declaration.

Philippians 1:7, 16.
There is a way to speak the truth in love. Growing up in Christ means to stop using the truth as an excuse to beat up on people who you consider unbelievers or who simply do not believe your doctrine.

3for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?" (1 Corinthians 3:3 NASB)

Now I don't claim to have some kind of gift of discernment, but I will say I have learned that wherever the spirit of offense is you are in fact dealing with a specific kind of person.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
'Ilk' is a derogatory term. Is this how you should be talking to people you consider unbelievers?
"Ilk" is derogatory eh? You don't know the definition, nor what you're talking about.

What is derogatory are your false accusations on others, and slandering them as per Romans 3:8, just like those in Paul's day.
 
P

PHart

Guest
There is a way to speak the truth in love. Growing up in Christ means to stop using the truth as an excuse to beat up on people who you consider unbelievers or who simply do not believe your doctrine.
We have to talk to people with respect and calmness, if for no other reason than we may find out one day that we do not have as much as the truth as we think we do. And that won't be as humbling if we have been in the habit of sharing what we thought was the truth with kindness and humility instead of with dogmatic, hateful arrogance.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
You just don't believe anyone loves God above all else.
There are men on earth that have given up their previous lives for the one given by God to further His word.
Why can't a man "freely will" to obey God, and then do so?
That is a good one,keep up the "assumptions" if you want,I'll stick to facts.
 
P

PHart

Guest
"Ilk" is derogatory eh? You don't know the definition, nor what you're talking about.

What is derogatory are your false accusations on others, and slandering them as per Romans 3:8, just like those in Paul's day.
I laughed to myself the day you brought this passage up because it is exactly what I was thinking in my mind about you folks who make grace a license to sin. If you read the passage honestly and carefully he's condemning them for having that attitude from his teaching.

Oh, and now go look up the definition of derogatory and then tell me you did not mean to use 'ilk' that way.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
"Ilk" is derogatory eh? You don't know the definition, nor what you're talking about.

What is derogatory are your false accusations on others, and slandering them as per Romans 3:8, just like those in Paul's day.
Romans 3

1
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

4God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) 6God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? 7For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? 8And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.


Read the verse with the Jewish unbeliever in mind.. not Phart who believes in Christ as per His witness..


 
J

joefizz

Guest
This is beneath you peter. Way beneath you. His account was hacked and you know that. And WHY would you post trash and cursing and not give WARNING about what someone will see when they click those links? Why would you do that to someone??
When one is losing ground to walk on one get's desperate.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
I laughed to myself the day you brought this passage up because it is exactly what I was thinking in my mind about you folks who make grace a license to sin. If you read the passage honestly and carefully he's condemning them for having that attitude from his teaching.

Oh, and now go look up the definition of derogatory and then tell me you did not mean to use 'ilk' that way.
PHart same as well consider who was being spoken of.. if we all say we believe we are not outwardly circumcised or unbelievers.. GOD forbid any mouth should confess Grace is a licence to sin.. Grace is a licence to do good through Faith.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
There is a way to speak the truth in love. Growing up in Christ means to stop using the truth as an excuse to beat up on people who you consider unbelievers or who simply do not believe your doctrine.

3for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?" (1 Corinthians 3:3 NASB)

Now I don't claim to have some kind of gift of discernment, but I will say I have learned that wherever the spirit of offense is you are in fact dealing with a specific kind of person.
Christ's Spirit is the Spirit of defense. The Spirit of grace. . We defend the faith of Christ that comes from hearing God by His faith that does work in us to both will and perform his good pleasure( imputed righteousness) Its what hyper grace does forgive the one eternal wage of sin.

Reducing the wage to a slap on the hand or in the corner you go, is not getting under the authority of God's word.

Sitting judgement of his law of grace accusing some as using it as a license to sin is not getting under its authority to forgive.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
Sorry to see you come to such a...sad conclusion.
There is no difference between "free from sin and "sinless perfection".
After our rebirth, which necessitated the death of the old man and his nature, we are of the seed of God, and cannot bring forth evil fruit anymore.

Let me ask you a question, please.
Do you delight in your sins?
If not, what forces you to commit them?

God has made a way to live without ever sinning again.
But you keep defending your sorry trek.
Making excuses, (cheerfully provided by other slaves to sin), making sin plausible fruit of the seed of God.
Time for a real "turn from sin".
Freedom is here on earth .
So your "excuses"are justified where as my being honest with God is somehow an "excuse" fascinating that.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
Sorry to see you come to such a...sad conclusion.
There is no difference between "free from sin and "sinless perfection".
After our rebirth, which necessitated the death of the old man and his nature, we are of the seed of God, and cannot bring forth evil fruit anymore.

Let me ask you a question, please.
Do you delight in your sins?
If not, what forces you to commit them?

God has made a way to live without ever sinning again.
But you keep defending your sorry trek.
Making excuses, (cheerfully provided by other slaves to sin), making sin plausible fruit of the seed of God.
Time for a real "turn from sin".
Freedom is here on earth .
uh huh so when it is written that satan is the father of lies and this world that is just an error,yet freedom is here,as I recall our "freedom" ascended into heaven and is coming back and all those who serve him "honestly" and "faithfully" shall be free from not only sin,but death,and the second death.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
Yes I do, and I think it was my picture in the dictionary by it's definition. (LOL)


[/COLOR]It wasn't pertinent to the subject.


Yes, I have.
It provoked me to a real "turn from" sin and my baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of my past sins.
That produced the death of the old man and the resurrection of the new man who walks in newness of life.
Perhaps some day you will partake in the amazing grace of God too.
I hope you do it soon, you so won't mourn over wasting one more day in sin.
considering you "amazing grace" is rather about you and accusing others no thanks I'll walk with the "only true God" and "trust in Jesus" and "let" the holy spirit guide me and not my own knowledge as you have clearly demonstrated you follow your "own" knowledge,rather then "actual wisdom".
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
I laughed to myself the day you brought this passage up because it is exactly what I was thinking in my mind about you folks who make grace a license to sin. If you read the passage honestly and carefully he's condemning them for having that attitude from his teaching.

Oh, and now go look up the definition of derogatory and then tell me you did not mean to use 'ilk' that way.
Um, he's answering an argument and objection to the Gospel. Obviously you don't know Romans, or you'd know this to be his methodology in his magnum opus.

Therefore, you yourself slanderously accuse, just as those in Romans 3:8, of whom Paul is addressing by way of argumentation against those of your same ilk.

I've already given you the definition of ilk, it means the same kind, the same family. You can't even own you were wrong there as well. So, what you're really doing is using willful ignorance to not concede as ongoing slander.

Anyone here can look up the word ilk, it isn't derogatory. :D