The end of the world is coming. What should we be looking for?
- Thread starter unobtrusive
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
While the quote was not from revelation the facts are that it is still non-literal prophetic/apocalyptic language. The tradition of using the sun and moon to describe the judgment and fall of nations is well established by the usage of this symbolic hyperbole in the old testament by the prophets.
This is where the supposedly literal herman-newtics of the dispensationalists falls short.
This is where the supposedly literal herman-newtics of the dispensationalists falls short.
We should be looking at being here for the tribulation. 2 Thess 2:2-3 “that ye be not soon shaken in spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as THAT THE DAY OF CHRIST is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: FOR THAT DAY SHALL NOT COME, except there come a falling away FIRST, And that the MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, the son of perdition.
Garee, you use this parable thing without even reading the context. How many times do I have to point out that the scripture reveals that the parable is a fulfillment from Isaiah and it is to that generation of Israel that he was speaking parables to. In opposition, the Lord told his disciples and the enter church "Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them."
The "you" in the scripture is to the disciples and all believers who have been given the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom. The "them" in the verse, is referring to that generation of Israel in fulfillment of Isaiah to whom the knowledge of the kingdom had not been given.
Therefore, since we the church have been given the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom, then Jesus is not speaking in parables to us in the book of Revelation. The sun, moon and stars mentioned in the verse is literal, i.e. the sun and moon are literally going to be darkened. As I have said before, when it comes to the stars, anything in the cosmos was considered a star. In John's time they did not have scientific classifications for the objects in the heavens. Even if our own moon, which isn't a star, were to hit the earth, it would be the end of life on this planet. Therefore, the stars that John is referring to must be meteorites or asteroids, etc. For a real star as we know them would destroy the earth just coming near to it.
To recap, the sun and moon being darkened will literally take place, with the meteorites/asteroids hitting the earths atmosphere, which John refers to as stars. This is not parable, but this event will literally take place at that time.
The "you" in the scripture is to the disciples and all believers who have been given the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom. The "them" in the verse, is referring to that generation of Israel in fulfillment of Isaiah to whom the knowledge of the kingdom had not been given.
Therefore, since we the church have been given the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom, then Jesus is not speaking in parables to us in the book of Revelation. The sun, moon and stars mentioned in the verse is literal, i.e. the sun and moon are literally going to be darkened. As I have said before, when it comes to the stars, anything in the cosmos was considered a star. In John's time they did not have scientific classifications for the objects in the heavens. Even if our own moon, which isn't a star, were to hit the earth, it would be the end of life on this planet. Therefore, the stars that John is referring to must be meteorites or asteroids, etc. For a real star as we know them would destroy the earth just coming near to it.
To recap, the sun and moon being darkened will literally take place, with the meteorites/asteroids hitting the earths atmosphere, which John refers to as stars. This is not parable, but this event will literally take place at that time.
with the way preterist heretics read the bible they should stop reading at once.
its not to them, its only to that generation to which Jesus spoke to.
the great commission was only to the disciples not to us. remember audience relevency. Paul never wrote any letters to us, only to the churches, so if ur not in those churches stop reading those epistles.
thats how dumb this heresy sounds to bible believing christians
its not to them, its only to that generation to which Jesus spoke to.
the great commission was only to the disciples not to us. remember audience relevency. Paul never wrote any letters to us, only to the churches, so if ur not in those churches stop reading those epistles.
thats how dumb this heresy sounds to bible believing christians
One of the main things I will be looking for when the end of the age is near (the current world system under Satan), will be some individual who meets the criteria of the Antichrist.
He loves lies and hates truth; and so will cast truth to the ground (Daniel 8:12).
He loves war, and will honor his military by paying big for armament increases (Daniel 11:38).
He is a narcissist who magnifies himself (Daniel 8:11 & 11:37), and will require having the mark of his name or number on everyone's forehead or hand in order to buy or sell (Revelation 13:17).
He will also bring about material prosperity (Daniel 8:12 & 25).
Daniel 8:12 [FONT="]And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
[/FONT]Daniel 11:38 [FONT="]But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.[/FONT]
Daniel 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.
11:37 [FONT="]Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
[/FONT]Revelation 13:17 [FONT="]And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
[/FONT]Daniel 8:25 [FONT="]And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.[/FONT]
He loves lies and hates truth; and so will cast truth to the ground (Daniel 8:12).
He loves war, and will honor his military by paying big for armament increases (Daniel 11:38).
He is a narcissist who magnifies himself (Daniel 8:11 & 11:37), and will require having the mark of his name or number on everyone's forehead or hand in order to buy or sell (Revelation 13:17).
He will also bring about material prosperity (Daniel 8:12 & 25).
Daniel 8:12 [FONT="]And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
[/FONT]Daniel 11:38 [FONT="]But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.[/FONT]
Daniel 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.
11:37 [FONT="]Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
[/FONT]Revelation 13:17 [FONT="]And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
[/FONT]Daniel 8:25 [FONT="]And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.[/FONT]
Hello Angela53510,
It is exactly the opposite. It is when symbolism is applied to the events within Revelation the literal meaning that God means to convey is lost and that because people are more concerned about man-made Hermeneutics than what God's word says at face value.
Symbolism is easy to spot: A woman clothed with the sun, a great red dragon with seven heads and ten horns, symbolism. Stars representing messengers of the seven churches, lampstands representing the church, symbolism with the literal meaning provided. A Lamb looking as if it had been slain having seven horns and seven eyes, symbolism with the Lamb representing Jesus and the horns and eyes symbolically representing the seven fold spirit sent out into all the earth.
The literal meaning behind the symbolism that we do encounter is revealed within the book of Revelation. For example, we have a dragon with seven heads and ten horns and we told what those seven heads and seven horns represent.
But for those who interpret everything in Revelation as symbolic because others said so, it greatly distorts the meaning of what God is conveying in this book.
Put your rule of hermeneutics and all of the man-made requirements for reading Revelation aside, reading it so that if the literal sense makes good sense, then don't seek any other sense.
It is exactly the opposite. It is when symbolism is applied to the events within Revelation the literal meaning that God means to convey is lost and that because people are more concerned about man-made Hermeneutics than what God's word says at face value.
Symbolism is easy to spot: A woman clothed with the sun, a great red dragon with seven heads and ten horns, symbolism. Stars representing messengers of the seven churches, lampstands representing the church, symbolism with the literal meaning provided. A Lamb looking as if it had been slain having seven horns and seven eyes, symbolism with the Lamb representing Jesus and the horns and eyes symbolically representing the seven fold spirit sent out into all the earth.
The literal meaning behind the symbolism that we do encounter is revealed within the book of Revelation. For example, we have a dragon with seven heads and ten horns and we told what those seven heads and seven horns represent.
But for those who interpret everything in Revelation as symbolic because others said so, it greatly distorts the meaning of what God is conveying in this book.
Put your rule of hermeneutics and all of the man-made requirements for reading Revelation aside, reading it so that if the literal sense makes good sense, then don't seek any other sense.
Now, just because these events were fulfilled in A.D. 70 does not mean that they are irrelevant to us. Churches can also apostatize, and Christ warned the Seven Churches that they too could be destroyed if Christ departed from them. They would be "desolate" and their worship would be "abominable" (Rev. 2-3). The destruction of the Temple and of its Jerusalem-culture, as portrayed in the remainder of Revelation, was thus a warning to the Seven Churches: If you do the same thing, God will do this to you. Thus, the principles are still in force, and serve to warn us today: If our churches depart from Christ, He will destroy both them and our society, which grew up around them.
The OT and the NT, are both written in the language of God. The understanding of the symbols used in the NT, should be similar to the meaning of the symbols in the OT.
The universal language of love and the spirit, 1 Cor 2:14, "...the things of the Spirit of God:", " ....they are spiritually discerned."
This means that the "things of God" are to be looked at through the eyes of the spirit, because they are to be understood as good and evil (love and no love). The Bible is a book about good and evil, love and no love, the spirit of God and the spirit of Satan.
====
The things shown are love and no love, the dragon and the lamb, in both the OT and NT.
It is the spirit of the dragon to focus on, and the spirit of the lamb. The spirit of the dragon is to destroy Israel, the spirit of the Lamb is to save Israel.
The spirit to destroy Israel is found in the unbelieving gentile nations. These nations are shown in Dan.2.
So the spirit to destroy Israel has taken different forms, expressed as nations in Dan. 2, shown as BEASTS in Dan.7, Rev..
The beasts have the same spirit and the spiritual attributes that go along with the spirit of Satan, to destroy love and Israel. Lies, murder, deception, confusion, they are without reason, untrustworthy, bullies, egocentric, mean, heartless, destroyers of knowledge, without mercy, without kindness, etc..
This spirit passes from nation to nation, each one ruling Israel, but the spirit is the same, the dragon beast spirit.
--
The symbols can also be understood as darkness and light.
Light is thought of as good. You can see where you are going, you understand the things around you.
Darkness us generally thought of as evil, not understanding, If the blind lead the blind, both will fall in to the ditch.
So the greatest light of all, the sun, would be the light of God's Law, which would give us understanding and keep us from falling into the spiritual ditch in God's eyes.
The moon shines in times of darkness, when the light from the Law is somehow diminished, The Prophets. They are not the Law, but are a reflection of the Law light, the sun (Law).
--
These are symbols that are universal to men through out time.
This is the language of symbolism.
We can't just make our own meaning up from nothing. The symbols should be understood from their original OT context first and then studied in the NT with the OT context meaning in mind.
--
Jesus spoke to us in the Rev., in the symbolic language of the OT.
Remember, there was no NT at the time of the writing of the Revelation, only letters from the apostles to the churches instructing them, there was only the OT.
It is the universal language of symbolism of the OT. that Jesus spoke.
It speaks to us through 1000's of years of time.
With some study, we are supposed to understand it, the spirits.
The universal language of love and the spirit, 1 Cor 2:14, "...the things of the Spirit of God:", " ....they are spiritually discerned."
This means that the "things of God" are to be looked at through the eyes of the spirit, because they are to be understood as good and evil (love and no love). The Bible is a book about good and evil, love and no love, the spirit of God and the spirit of Satan.
====
The things shown are love and no love, the dragon and the lamb, in both the OT and NT.
It is the spirit of the dragon to focus on, and the spirit of the lamb. The spirit of the dragon is to destroy Israel, the spirit of the Lamb is to save Israel.
The spirit to destroy Israel is found in the unbelieving gentile nations. These nations are shown in Dan.2.
So the spirit to destroy Israel has taken different forms, expressed as nations in Dan. 2, shown as BEASTS in Dan.7, Rev..
The beasts have the same spirit and the spiritual attributes that go along with the spirit of Satan, to destroy love and Israel. Lies, murder, deception, confusion, they are without reason, untrustworthy, bullies, egocentric, mean, heartless, destroyers of knowledge, without mercy, without kindness, etc..
This spirit passes from nation to nation, each one ruling Israel, but the spirit is the same, the dragon beast spirit.
--
The symbols can also be understood as darkness and light.
Light is thought of as good. You can see where you are going, you understand the things around you.
Darkness us generally thought of as evil, not understanding, If the blind lead the blind, both will fall in to the ditch.
So the greatest light of all, the sun, would be the light of God's Law, which would give us understanding and keep us from falling into the spiritual ditch in God's eyes.
The moon shines in times of darkness, when the light from the Law is somehow diminished, The Prophets. They are not the Law, but are a reflection of the Law light, the sun (Law).
--
These are symbols that are universal to men through out time.
This is the language of symbolism.
We can't just make our own meaning up from nothing. The symbols should be understood from their original OT context first and then studied in the NT with the OT context meaning in mind.
--
Jesus spoke to us in the Rev., in the symbolic language of the OT.
Remember, there was no NT at the time of the writing of the Revelation, only letters from the apostles to the churches instructing them, there was only the OT.
It is the universal language of symbolism of the OT. that Jesus spoke.
It speaks to us through 1000's of years of time.
With some study, we are supposed to understand it, the spirits.
Unfortunately you are wrong about Revelation being Apocalyptic Literature. It is a Book of GOD's WORD... It is not just another piece of literature that you can thumb your nose at it. It contains what is going to happen three different peoples of the earth. The Jewish People, The Gentiles and The Church.
On the other hand, it is your choice but think of the Rich man and Lazaruz and then the parable of the 10 Virgins. To make it clear, I am NOT saying you will be in hell but rather calling your attention that where ever you are at, you are going to know the How, Why and Where am I questions.
I do believe that I would not Blow Revelation off so easily...It is for an eternity.....
On the other hand, it is your choice but think of the Rich man and Lazaruz and then the parable of the 10 Virgins. To make it clear, I am NOT saying you will be in hell but rather calling your attention that where ever you are at, you are going to know the How, Why and Where am I questions.
I do believe that I would not Blow Revelation off so easily...It is for an eternity.....
The gathering of the church (rapture) is a result of our salvation. It is a promise from the Lord when he told his disciples that he was going to the Father's house to prepare dwelling places for us and that he was coming back to take us there to be with him (John 14:1-3). 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is a detailed account of the fulfillment of that promise which is the next event to take place. Anyone who finds themselves here after the church has been gathered, will be because they did not belong to the Lord. They will not have been saved. So in this respect it is a salvation issue.
It is exactly this approach to the book of Revelation that keeps those who think this way from understanding it.
If they would read it in the literal sense, applying symbolism where it is obvious and then finding the meaning behind the symbolism also revealed in Revelation, then they would come to a right conclusion. But having the attitude that Revelation is apocalyptic, then the miss the literal meanings that God means to convey.
None of the information regarding God's wrath is symbolic, but the results will that are written will literally take place. For those who would claim that God is going to protect the church in the midst of seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, they have no idea of the severity and magnitude of the God's coming wrath.
If they would read it in the literal sense, applying symbolism where it is obvious and then finding the meaning behind the symbolism also revealed in Revelation, then they would come to a right conclusion. But having the attitude that Revelation is apocalyptic, then the miss the literal meanings that God means to convey.
None of the information regarding God's wrath is symbolic, but the results will that are written will literally take place. For those who would claim that God is going to protect the church in the midst of seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, they have no idea of the severity and magnitude of the God's coming wrath.
You do not agree that the souls in hell or heaven will know who they ware, were, how and why they got there and for how long????????///
I disagree that Rev. has a zero effect on a person's eternal destination...... Please check out the Rev. 1, 2 and 3 again. After chapter 4, I will agree with you in that the eternal destination decisions are just about over by then for everyone.. I will be watching it from the Messinene "sea of glass". What church would you place yourself in.??????
I disagree that Rev. has a zero effect on a person's eternal destination...... Please check out the Rev. 1, 2 and 3 again. After chapter 4, I will agree with you in that the eternal destination decisions are just about over by then for everyone.. I will be watching it from the Messinene "sea of glass". What church would you place yourself in.??????
What we need to look for is not in the external signs but that is which is in ourselves , our relationship with God. Life is too short to worry about signs, let us live by faith in our God , for indeed all things work together for good for those who are in our Lord and personal Saviour Jesus Christ.