The burden of the Lord

[Angela53510]

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid:
yea, we establish the law.
Romans 3:31

This is a CLASSIC example of pulling things out of context! Did you even read the rest of Romans 3? It is about establishing the principle that we are NOT justified by works of the OT law. In fact, the only law Paul acknowledges is the law of faith!

From chapter 3, Paul goes into chapter 4 and explains the implications of the “law of faith” for Abraham!

“And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness” Romans 4:5

”For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.” Romans 4:13-14

Are you beginning to see? The promise comes by faith, not the law! And Paul continues in chapter 5, not just for Abraham but for all!

”But the statement “it was credited to him as righteousness” was not written only for Abraham’s sake, 24 but also for our sake, to whom it will be credited, those who believe in the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was given over because of our transgressions and was raised for the sake of our justification. Romans 4:23-25

“Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of God’s glory.” Romans 5:1-2

I have isolated verses here, but for convenience! I would really encourage you to read Romans 3-5 and underline all the times it says, “faith.” Paul weaves a careful theology in Romans, the book needs to be read and studied extensively. But Paul NEVER says that keeping the OT law saves us. What saves us is faith in Jesus Christ! And that faith is a gift of God!

God sends us his grace, to give us faith, and when we hear the truth, and we believe we are justified. Nothing we can do! Then, all this works God prepared for us to do, like loving our neighbour as ourselves, preaching the true gospel, and loving God first, that is obedience to the law of faith Paul talked about back in Romans 3:27!

PS God is sovereign and in control! He works in our lives through the Holy Spirit (oil was always a symbol of the Holy Spirit in the OT) to save us and change us into the image of Christ. And you are not a teacher, but I pray you will one day come to understand the true message of the Bible and realize that Jesus came to die for our sins.

 

[comingfrom]

Hi Grandpa.

Thank you for this.

No. You really aren't.

Are you?

Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Thank you for the passage. (I do know it)

I follow the law of righteousness because I have faith in God's words.

God's righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and His law is the truth.
Psalm 119:142

No not at all.

Its all in Matthew 5... And here is the summary;

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

And you think you can do that without following the law for righteousness?

When the law condemns me, that is how I know when I am not perfect,
and have to reprove.

How do you tell when you are perfect, and when not?

One of the definitions of crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

I want the result that comes from keeping the law.
Doing it leads one to Christ.

The Christians who first prayed Jesus blood on me chastised me.
They said the baptism is only once. I shouldn't summon Jesus again and again.

But it was so good. Why only once?
Don't you like being in the presence of the Lord?

The commandment says to do His feasts in their seasons.

Besides, I am not perfect yet.

Yes. The bible says they do.

And it is true.
The Catholic and other churches make Jesus' flesh and blood to fulfil the commandments in law.
Many others say to just have faith that you are fulfilling it.
Either way, they are all trying to fulfil the law.

Only they do so by their own works,
or by having faith they do it without doing it (which is the extent of their work).
I try to fulfil the law by doing the law.

And hey, I might not be good at it.
But I know, God knows how hard each of us try.

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

I keep the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

St Paul teaches the commandments of the law also,
but you cling to the few verses which you think says to avoid the law.

I notice there are some people doing good exegesis on those verses at this forum,
to find out why they appear to contradict all God's words (but don't really).
So I won't do it here.

Its not ignorance of the law. Its ignorance of Righteousness that is the problem.

Moses describes the righteousness of the law.

So ignorance of the law of Moses is ignorance of God's righteousness.
Jesus said to seek God's righteousness first,
and now I have what you Gentiles seek.

Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

The doers of the law are justified before God.

So those that are not coming to it, and not doing it, are who have hit the stumbling blocks.
Isn't it.

Anytime time they see anyone advocating the law, or teaching a commandment of God,
it's back to Romans and Galatians for them.
Wouldn't you rather be doing Jesus' works,
than working at steering people away from Him?

You know the law leads to Christ.

I guess its only simple for people who have come to faith in Christ.

If we hear Jesus' words, and believe in God that sent Him,
then we won't be condemned, but will have life,
said Jesus.

But you are saying,
if we hear Jesus' words, and believe in God that sent Him,
then we are not listening to St Paul, whom you believe says to not hear Jesus,
and to not do the law of the God who sent Him?

For you that is faith in Christ.

Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

These verses confirm me, btw.

I believe them.
And I believe you that we need to do them by faith, with Jesus at our side.
But then you complain that I confess I do that.
Then tell me I should do that.

Hear Jesus
Believe God who sent Him
Paul

Receive, I pray thee, the law from His mouth,
and lay up His words in thine heart.
If thou return to the Almighty, thou shalt be built up,
thou shalt put away iniquity far from thy tabernacles.
22:22-23​

 

[Laish]

This is a CLASSIC example of pulling things out of context! Did you even read the rest of Romans 3? It is about establishing the principle that we are NOT justified by works of the OT law. In fact, the only law Paul acknowledges is the law of faith!

From chapter 3, Paul goes into chapter 4 and explains the implications of the “law of faith” for Abraham!

“And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness” Romans 4:5

”For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.” Romans 4:13-14

Are you beginning to see? The promise comes by faith, not the law! And Paul continues in chapter 5, not just for Abraham but for all!

”But the statement “it was credited to him as righteousness” was not written only for Abraham’s sake, 24 but also for our sake, to whom it will be credited, those who believe in the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was given over because of our transgressions and was raised for the sake of our justification. Romans 4:23-25

“Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of God’s glory.” Romans 5:1-2

I have isolated verses here, but for convenience! I would really encourage you to read Romans 3-5 and underline all the times it says, “faith.” Paul weaves a careful theology in Romans, the book needs to be read and studied extensively. But Paul NEVER says that keeping the OT law saves us. What saves us is faith in Jesus Christ! And that faith is a gift of God!

God sends us his grace, to give us faith, and when we hear the truth, and we believe we are justified. Nothing we can do! Then, all this works God prepared for us to do, like loving our neighbour as ourselves, preaching the true gospel, and loving God first, that is obedience to the law of faith Paul talked about back in Romans 3:27!

PS God is sovereign and in control! He works in our lives through the Holy Spirit (oil was always a symbol of the Holy Spirit in the OT) to save us and change us into the image of Christ. And you are not a teacher, but I pray you will one day come to understand the true message of the Bible and realize that Jesus came to die for our sins.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Angela53510 again.
Someone please help me out here .
Blessings
Bill

 

[joefizz]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Angela53510 again.
Someone please help me out here .
Blessings
Bill

there ya go bill angela just received rep for the post you indicated!

 

[comingfrom]

I am speaking only for myself here- while I hope the Hebrew roots, Sabbath , and sinless folks see the truth, and pray that they do, I mainly point out the error of their theology, so that new or young believers do not get pulled into it.


like they quote 1st John 2 v. 3-6 verbatim , but they do not seem to know ( or care ) that 1st John is letter. John was telling people something, he just did not say the words in those verses, and nothing else. if they keep reading the letter, John explains that God's commands are believe in the Son and love one another. chapter 3 v. 22-23.

I say, let the schoolmaster teach our children.
Our teachers have been no good, and have led us away from the schoolmaster,
so we cannot teach the children well.

And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children,
and shalt talk of them when thou sit in thine house, and when thou walk by the way, and when thou lie down, and when thou rise up.
Deuteronomy 6:5-7

 

[comingfrom]

You want to know the devastating thing about their position that will show just how wicked it is? They believe and teach they chose to love, follow God, and keep all his commandments by their own free will.

Bless you

[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him:
and I will raise him up at the last day.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]It is written in the prophets,
And they shall be all taught of God.
Every man therefore that has heard, and has learned of the Father, comes unto Me.[/FONT]
Luke 6:46-49

That is why the law leads to Christ.
Because you went direct to God's words, and heard Him, and learned from Him.

And if God see you do that,
He will surely draw you to Jesus.
But if God sees you are stiffnecked against doing all His laws,
shall He draw you to His Son?

 

[comingfrom]

Thank you Angela.

Thank you for your offering.
This is going to be a long and fruitful one.
You sacrificed quite a bit of time and effort, may God reward you.

Again with the concordance theology, although I am beginning to suspect worse. Stringing words together, grandiosity, can be a sign of psychosis. I just hope it is ignorance, and not some form of mental illness that is causing you to do this.

I follow the commandments,
and there is a whole chapter of commandments
just on how to make oblations that are of a sweet savour unto the Lord.

And if thou bring an oblation of a meat offering baken in the oven,
it shall be unleavened cakes of fine flour mingled with oil,
or unleavened wafers anointed with oil.
Leviticus 2:4

Wafer and oil, delivered with frankincense.
God's commandments make sense to me.
And they lead to Christ, not psychosis.

So, I will outline the words you have pulled out of a concordance. This a challenge, because this post is so mixed up


priest -> Melchizedek -> bread & wine -> oil -> law -> priest!

Not once did you mention the gospel, which is the grace of Jesus!

I believe grace comes with the bread and wine.

But we must get the bread and the wine.

As many have said, Jesus said we cannot keep the law.

No He didn't.

He said to be perfect, as perfect as God is perfect.
One has to be doing all the commandments to be that perfect.
And so I am still learning.

He also said to teach even the least commandments.
That would not be possible if we cannot even keep them and do them ourselves.

In fact, that is why we need Jesus! Only he kept the law perfectly, and his death on the cross atoned for our sins.

Yes, we do need Jesus.
And doing the law leads us to Him.

But not if we don't keep it like God says to.

Sin being "anything at separates us from God."

Being separated from His law is separation from God too.
And from Jesus, because the law leads us to Christ.

Not just a bunch of Levitical laws, which I have shown you Melchizedek was NOT of the same order.

As we are not.

OK.
So, Melchizidek is not of the same order that God ordained,
and he is not the same King of Peace that Jesus is,
so why are you following Melchizidek?

We commemorate the Lord's supper to remember Jesus!

Again, you said Melchizidek is not of the order of God's priesthood,
and he isn't Jesus,
so what has He to with the Lord's supper?

The Lord's supper is in Leviticus chapter 23,
so is of the order of Levi.

Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations,
even these are My feasts.
Leviticus 23:2

No, it is not! The Bible is God's Word, but Jesus himself is the bread of life!

"Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:35-40

But the Bible is God's words written.

So, whether God is spoken or written, what is the difference?
The difference is, we can always pick up His written word,
but we can not always hear His voice.

God is the word.
The written word is Jesus' flesh too.
When Jesus comes He teaches the written word
(if you laid it up in your heart and soul like it says to do).

The Bible is our guidebook! Yes, it tells us how to live!

Then use it.
And stop butting against it.

Keep My commandments, and live;
and My law as the apple of thine eye.
Proverbs 7:2

I'm trying to say as gentle as possible.
The guidebook says to keep the commandments and do them all the way through.

But that is because it reveals Jesus.

Actually, it leads one to Jesus.
Doing the law leads a person to the anointing of God.
If they do it by faith, and not as a mere carnal work.

The law was set down to separate Israel from the pagans.

It worked.
Because now the Gentiles are saying they are not Israel,
and that the commandments are not for them.

God wanted them separate, because Jesus would come from the Jews.

When you say Jews,
do you mean the Jews on earth,
or God's Jews who are with Him in heaven?

But it was also a foreshadowing of the hope of the Messiah, Jesus!

It foretells of His coming.
And how it shall come to pass.

But you yourself have not crossed over Jordan yet.

Jesus came to save us from our sins. (Matt 1:21) so many have given you the verses and chapters to show you that we do not ever save ourselves by keeping the law.

That's great that you were saved.
So you have crossed over Jordan, and entered that land that God gives.

But when Jesus saved me,
He said I in debt to keep the whole of the law.
He says in Galatians, chapter 5.
Christ is of no effect to them that get saved but then don't pay their debt to God.

I don't need to get that verse for you, because I think you know it.

Your convoluted logic is wrong. Please read the Bible, to find Jesus!

My Bible says the law is our Schoolmaster that leads to Christ.

The law is not a shadow.
It is the heavenly things that are shadowy.

Everything you say indicates you do not know Jesus personally, except as someone pointing to the law!

With respect,
because you have not followed the law,
everything I say is in contradiction to what you say.

Jesus led me a different way than He led you,
and maybe that is because you asked not to have to do the law, I don't know.

But I already had my teeth in it when Jesus found me.

No! The law points to Jesus!

The law is my Schoolmaster.
The word is God.
God did draw me to Jesus.

One last verse, this is a fruitless discussion, I am sorry to say!

What would be good fruit for you?

That I drop Jesus sayings and follow yours?
You would glory if I stopped teaching commandments, and fed you your bread back to you.
Then you would say, fruitful.

Your heart is hard. You need Jesus. Accept the gift of God, and be saved!

Could I not say the same of you?
Because I keep His saying, I would say it this way;
Circumcise your heart to God and be no more stiffnecked.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.." Eph. 2:8-9

Truly, God was only gracious to me when I was keeping His commandments.

Just like He says in His word.

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me, and keep My commandments.
Exodus 20:6

And, when people tell me God is gracious to them,
and they are steering His children away from His word,
I confess, I find it hard to believe them.

God told me He hates that.
But you don't believe me, and don't think I can hear Him,
so I guess nothing matters what I say.
Which is why I insert the wafers.

Don't believe my words, but do believe God's.
Paul

 

[comingfrom]

And thank you again, Angela.

For that was fruitful.
I did learn several new things about God's word through doing that,
and I hope you don't think bad of me for disagreeing.
I don't think bad of you.
How can I? You have to be a wonderful kind caring person to do all that for me.

Can we agree to differ and still be friends?
Friends in Jesus
Paul

 

[trofimus]

But I already had my teeth in it [i.e. in the Jewish Las] when Jesus found me.

I think this is the reason you come with such strange ideas.

Sometimes its better to start from 0 than to bring our background into Christianity. To unlearn old things is much more difficult than to learn new.

 

[comingfrom]

Hi again Angela.
I turn the page and here is another patient exhortation.

Thank you for giving me your best bullocks.
I'll try not to hurt you as I kill them.

For that is what we are doing here, isn't it?
Slaying each other's beasts.

But we both do well to speak to what was said, and not pierce each other.
I hope.

Originally Posted by comingfrom

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid:
yea, we establish the law.
Romans 3:31



This is a CLASSIC example of pulling things out of context! Did you even read the rest of Romans 3? It is about establishing the principle that we are NOT justified by works of the OT law. In fact, the only law Paul acknowledges is the law of faith!

Thank you. But that is the only law I acknowledge too.

I do not disagree with St Paul.
But this is my reasoning.

Our faith is supposed to be in God and Jesus, is it not?
And God's law came by Moses. Yes?
Therefore, the law of Moses is the law of faith.

From chapter 3, Paul goes into chapter 4 and explains the implications of the “law of faith” for Abraham!

“And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness” Romans 4:5

”For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the lawbut through the righteousness of faith.14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.” Romans 4:13-14

Are you beginning to see? The promise comes by faith, not the law! And Paul continues in chapter 5, not just for Abraham but for all!

”But the statement “it was credited to him as righteousness” was not written only for Abraham’s sake, 24 but also for our sake, to whom it will be credited, those who believe in the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was given over because of our transgressions and was raised for the sake of our justification. Romans 4:23-25

“Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of God’s glory.” Romans 5:1-2

I have isolated verses here, but for convenience! I would really encourage you to read Romans 3-5 and underline all the times it says, “faith.” Paul weaves a careful theology in Romans, the book needs to be read and studied extensively. But Paul NEVER says that keeping the OT law saves us. What saves us is faith in Jesus Christ! And that faith is a gift of God!

Thank you.

Do you know how many Christians went to the effort to show me this?
An uncountable number.
They think it excuses them from their debt to do the whole of the law.
Did any of them ever show me the verse from Genesis while they were showing me?
Never. Not once.

So I show it to them.
For this is the reason why Abraham's faith was counted as righteousness.

Because that Abraham obeyed My voice,
and kept My charge,
My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.
Genesis 26:5

Some came back to tell me the law wasn't around yet, in Abraham's day.
Which only shows me they are unwilling to believe God's word in their own holy book.
However Abraham kept the law, he was obedient and kept it,
and that is why his faith was counted for righteousness.

God sends us his grace, to give us faith, and when we hear the truth, and we believe we are justified. Nothing we can do! Then, all this works God prepared for us to do, like loving our neighbour as ourselves, preaching the true gospel, and loving God first, that is obedience to the law of faith Paul talked about back in Romans 3:27!

I would say to you, spend more time in the law and the prophets.
If you were teaching out of Deuteronomy and the Psalms your preach would be very different, would it not?

And you would have a totally different understanding,
because Jesus does talk about all the things you are speaking about, in the law,
but He says it very differently to you there.

I see the law as the technical manual for all the things Jesus and St Paul say.
I refer back to the law to see what they are actually talking about,
and when I find it, it is clearer to me because of their words in the New Testament.

PS God is sovereign and in control! He works in our lives through the Holy Spirit (oil was always a symbol of the Holy Spirit in the OT) to save us and change us into the image of Christ. And you are not a teacher, but I pray you will one day come to understand the true message of the Bible and realize that Jesus came to die for our sins.

I was going to mention earlier,
St Paul also advocates the law of the Spirit,
which is of course also the only law he advocates.

And the Spirit of God gave this law unto Moses
in the mountain of God, and in God's tabernacles.

And God calls us His people Israel.
Paul

Thus shall they know that I the LORD their God am with them,
and that they, even the house of Israel, are My people, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 34:30​

 

[comingfrom]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Angela53510 again.
Someone please help me out here .
Blessings
Bill

Thou shalt not raise a false report:
put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.
Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil;
neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment:
Neither shalt thou countenance a poor man in his cause.
Exodus 23:1-3

I will give her reputation.
At least she had some spine to address me and some of my words.

 

[comingfrom]

Thank you, Trofimus.

Nice to see you're reading my posts.

Originally Posted by comingfrom

But I already had my teeth in it [i.e. in the Jewish Las] when Jesus found me.



I think this is the reason you come with such strange ideas.

You think it strange that someone was following the schoolmaster that leads to Christ, and was found of Jesus?

I think you have too many Christian preconceptions.

Sometimes its better to start from 0 than to bring our background into Christianity. To unlearn old things is much more difficult than to learn new.

I was brought up outside the church.

My parents were agnostic, so I never even had Sunday school.
I think this was an advantage for me, for exactly the reasons you say.
I didn't have too many strong theological preconceptions.

Though, even as an Atheist, I was surprised how many Christian conceptions I found in me.
From being brought up in Christian based society.

I burned the names of their gods out me.
It was the first thing I had to do for Jesus, when He entered me into God's kingdom.

These are the statutes and judgments,
which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers gives thee to possess it,
all the days that ye live upon the earth.
Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods,
upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree:
And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire;
and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place.
Ye shall not do so unto the LORD your God.
Deuteronomy 12:1-4

Bless you
Paul

 

[trofimus]

Thank you, Trofimus.

Nice to see you're reading my posts.

You think it strange that someone was following the schoolmaster that leads to Christ, and was found of Jesus?

[/COLOR]I think you have too many Christian preconceptions.

I was brought up outside the church.

My parents were agnostic, so I never even had Sunday school.
I think this was an advantage for me, for exactly the reasons you say.
I didn't have too many strong theological preconceptions.

Though, even as an Atheist, I was surprised how many Christian conceptions I found in me.
From being brought up in Christian based society.

I burned the names of their gods out me.
It was the first thing I had to do for Jesus, when He entered me into God's kingdom.

These are the statutes and judgments,
which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers gives thee to possess it,
all the days that ye live upon the earth.
Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods,
upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree:
And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire;
and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place.
Ye shall not do so unto the LORD your God.
Deuteronomy 12:1-4

Bless you
Paul

Many things in churches are wrong, somebody has to unlearn what he believed in the RCC, I had to unlearn dispensationalism, charismatic theology, young earth beliefs and now some things from reformation era.

But that does not mean that common, basic Christian theology (like deity of Christ, resurrection and not being under the Law) can be rejected.
Thats why I can say that protestants, charismatics, young earth believers etc are Christians, but I cant say that about Jehovah witnesses.

 

[comingfrom]

Thank you, Trofi.

Many things in churches are wrong, somebody has to unlearn what he believed in the RCC, I had to unlearn dispensationalism, charismatic theology, young earth beliefs and now some things from reformation era.

But that does not mean that common, basic Christian theology (like deity of Christ, resurrection and not being under the Law) can be rejected.
Thats why I can say that protestants, charismatics, young earth believers etc are Christians, but I cant say that about Jehovah witnesses.

Yes, that is the covenant of the Christians, and they say they must keep it.

Which is why I cannot really call myself a Christian.
That covenant you mention is not the covenant the Lord made with me,
at my circumcision.

I am a debtor to do the whole of the law.

Thank God
Paul

 

[notmyown]

Bless you

No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him:
and I will raise him up at the last day.
It is written in the prophets,
And they shall be all taught of God.
Every man therefore that has heard, and has learned of the Father, comes unto Me.
Luke 6:46-49

That is why the law leads to Christ.
Because you went direct to God's words, and heard Him, and learned from Him.

And if God see you do that,
He will surely draw you to Jesus.
But if God sees you are stiffnecked against doing all His laws,
shall He draw you to His Son?

hi, Paul, welcome.

the first use of the Law is to be a mirror into which we look and see both the Perfect Righteousness of God and our own sins and shortcomings of that Perfection. we may try and try and only become weary and discouraged in the attempt, apart from Christ. in this way, God's Law can drive us to our knees in desperation, but it cannot save. it was never meant to save, but to bring knowledge of sin (Rom 3:20; Rom 7:7-11).

but look! what a lovely verse you quoted!

No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him:
and I will raise him up at the last day.

is it the Law drawing (dragging, literally) sinners to Christ, or is it the mercy of the Father?
and what is the promise that follows?

 

[comingfrom]

Thank you notmyown.

Since you don't believe you need to be doing God's will, His commandments,
whose are you?

hi, Paul, welcome.

the first use of the Law is to be a mirror into which we look and see both the Perfect Righteousness of God and our own sins and shortcomings of that Perfection. we may try and try and only become weary and discouraged in the attempt, apart from Christ. in this way, God's Law can drive us to our knees in desperation, but it cannot save. it was never meant to save, but to bring knowledge of sin (Rom 3:20; Rom 7:7-11).

but look! what a lovely verse you quoted!

No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him:
and I will raise him up at the last day.

is it the Law drawing (dragging, literally) sinners to Christ, or is it the mercy of the Father?
and what is the promise that follows?

This is why the law leads to Christ.
Because you went direct to God's words, and heard Him, and learned from Him.

And if God see you do that,
He will surely draw you to Jesus.
But if God sees you are stiffnecked against doing all His laws,
shall He draw you to His Son?

You asked me that question, after having read my answer.
So I copy and paste it back to you again.
You obviously missed it.

The law is not a mirror, it is God's will.
It is His commandment for us.

Receive, I pray thee, the law from His mouth,
and lay up His words in thine heart.
Job 22:22

For the LORD gives wisdom:
out of His mouth comes knowledge and understanding.
Proverbs 2:6

For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not My law.
Proverbs 4:2

And since it is God's words,
the law is Jesus
Paul

The word of God most high is the fountain of wisdom;
and His ways are everlasting commandments.
Ecclesiasticus 1:5​

 

[notmyown]

Thank you notmyown.

Since you don't believe you need to be doing God's will

now, where did i say that?

 

[comingfrom]

Originally Posted by comingfrom Thank you notmyown.


Since you don't believe you need to be doing God's will

now, where did i say that?

It wasn't a quote. I see it when your speech is against His law. And I see it again when you quote half my sentence to leave out "His commandments", because you know you are saying to not keep His commandments.

Shall I try that with my boss at work?
Tell all my fellow workers the boss doesn't mind if they laze about,
he will pay them anyway, don't need to do what he commands.
Or try it with my partner?
Tell them I love them, truly I do, but then never do anything they ask.

What kind of a servant and lover would I be?

Commandments are the will of the one giving the commandments.
Isn't it?
Paul

Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that does the will of My Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21​

 

[notmyown]

It wasn't a quote. I see it when your speech is against His law. And I see it again when you quote half my sentence to leave out "His commandments", because you know you are saying to not keep His commandments.

Shall I try that with my boss at work?
Tell all my fellow workers the boss doesn't mind if they laze about,
he will pay them anyway, don't need to do what he commands.
Or try it with my partner?
Tell them I love them, truly I do, but then never do anything they ask.

What kind of a servant and lover would I be?

Commandments are the will of the one giving the commandments.
Isn't it?
Paul

Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that does the will of My Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21​

exactly. which is why i omitted it, because His will for me to do and His commands are the same.

i would appreciate it if you will direct me to the place where i spoke against His Law.

 

[trofimus]

It wasn't a quote. I see it when your speech is against His law. And I see it again when you quote half my sentence to leave out "His commandments", because you know you are saying to not keep His commandments.

Shall I try that with my boss at work?
Tell all my fellow workers the boss doesn't mind if they laze about,
he will pay them anyway, don't need to do what he commands.
Or try it with my partner?
Tell them I love them, truly I do, but then never do anything they ask.

What kind of a servant and lover would I be?

Commandments are the will of the one giving the commandments.
Isn't it?
Paul

[FONT=&]Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that does the will of My Father which is in heaven.[/FONT][FONT=&]
Matthew 7:21[/FONT]​

If your boss will tell you, after you begin in the job, what are your tasks and after several years you will get promoted and will get another set of tasks to do (some similar to the first ones, some different), you are the one still doing the first job.

She is doing the new job.

Which one of you is against the boss´ will?

---
Jews were servants. We are sons/daughters. Different rules apply.