The end of the world is coming. What should we be looking for?

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Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
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Thank you. God bless you. I have been taught that the Antichrist will rise to full stature 3.5 years into the Trib. I have heard this center point called the beginning of the Great Tribulation.

You are correct my friend. Jesus tells this in Mat 24. At

the AoD happening in Daniel's 70th week, is 3 1/2 years into the seven. It is when Jesus tells the people (Jewish) who believe to run out of the city without stopping of anything. He tells them this in Mat 24 and Mark 13.

However, the Antichrist must be powerful enough to confirm (enforce) a covenant with Israel and "Death and Hell". Who they are is unknown at this time. It very well could be ISIS but right now ISIS is on the run. However, it could be others in the area.





As far as prophecy, Psalm 83 War may be in the making. The Psalm tells one who will attack Israel. Apply this to a map of today, the discussions going on today correspond. Keep in mind this this WAR will most likely be kept t the mid-east, although there are some suspect verses in it that might bring the rest of the world in with it including the US.

Not worried about it, just watching like Jesus told us to do.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
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If it was, which it ain't, we'd have a load of nuts claiming the "sky is falling" and arguing over the signs.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
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Willie-T,

The main reason that I think that the Rev was written after 70 ad is that the scroll of the 7 seals could not be open until after Jerusalem was destroyed.

The angel says in Dan. 12:4-7, that the little scroll can't be opened until after the power of the holy people had been scattered, 70 ad implied.

---
There is this documentary that comes on the PBS channels every now and then about John of Patmos. In it the vast consensus is that the book of Revelation was written circa 95 AD due to who was ruling in Rome at the time (I forget who it was).

As to your second point about the scattering of the holy people in Daniel 12:7, who according to the scripture their power is scattered "for a time, times, and an half"; there are two other areas where this time frame appears, in Daniel 7:25 & Revelation 12:14.
The time, and times, and half a time in which the woman is in the wilderness in Revelation 12:14, Revelation 12:6 discloses consists of 1,260 days. This time frame is approximately 15 days shy of 3.5 years, thus indicating each "time" as 360 days.
A single time (360 days) + 2 times (720 days) + 1/2 a time (180 days)= 1,260 days.

It is also important to note that the power of the holy people which is scattered in Daniel 12:7; Daniel 7:25 describes as the saintswho are worn out by the ten horned beasts little horn (aka the Antichrist), who is also described as the mouth speaking great things in Daniel 7:20 and Revelation 13:5.
The saints are the holy people whose power is scattered, they are not some blood line in a creed which has no faith in Christ.

Daniel 12:7 [FONT=&quot]And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people[/FONT][FONT=&quot], all these things shall be finished.
7:[/FONT]
25 [FONT=&quot]And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Revelation 12:[/FONT]
14 [FONT=&quot]And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
12:[/FONT]
6 [FONT=&quot]And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore[/FONT][FONT=&quot] days.

Daniel 7:[/FONT]
20 [FONT=&quot]And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Revelation 13:[/FONT]
5 [FONT=&quot]And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.[/FONT]
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
There is this documentary that comes on the PBS channels every now and then about John of Patmos. In it the vast consensus is that the book of Revelation was written circa 95 AD due to who was ruling in Rome at the time (I forget who it was).
We will probably not be able to fix a date for the writing.

As to your second point about the scattering of the holy people in Daniel 12:7, who according to the scripture their power is scattered "for a time, times, and an half"; there are two other areas where this time frame appears, in Daniel 7:25 & Revelation 12:14.
The 3 1/2 times, added to another 3 1/2 times (3 1/2ts), equal 7 times. This time is seen in Dan. 4:23.

It is a time determined by God. It is not a time that is measured as men, which men want to "even out", as say years, or months, or days.

It doesn't exactly say how long the time was in Dan. 4. It could have been even, like 7 months, or if the 7 times were determined in God's eyes, it could have been 5 years, 2 months, 1 day, 6 hours, 21 minuets, 10 seconds, and 67 milliseconds.

The 7 times, are a time determined by God (prophetic), that is not necessarily able to be determined by men.



The time, and times, and half a time in which the woman is in the wilderness in Revelation 12:14, Revelation 12:6 discloses consists of 1,260 days. This time frame is approximately 15 days shy of 3.5 years, thus indicating each "time" as 360 days.
A single time (360 days) + 2 times (720 days) + 1/2 a time (180 days)= 1,260 days.
The 3 1/2 ts, are symbolic numbers, As is the complete 7 ts. To try to evaluate them according to the ways of men is useless, as the time may not be as men see it.

The woman is Israel. The wilderness, is the wilderness of the gentile nations. When the woman, Israel, returns to Jerusalem, then she is no longer in the wilderness of the gentile nations. It is then that the 3 1/2 ts, would be completed.

But this has already happened. In 70 ad Israel was "fleeing" into the gentile nations to escape from Rome. The 3 1/2 ts has been completed. It was from 70 ad until 1967 when Israel was restored to control of Jerusalem, and the times of the gentiles ended. Lk 21:20-24, 24.

It is also important to note that the power of the holy people which is scattered in Daniel 12:7; Daniel 7:25 describes as the saintswho are worn out by the ten horned beasts little horn (aka the Antichrist), who is also described as the mouth speaking great things in Daniel 7:20 and Revelation 13:5.
In the OT Israel is called the saints. So Israel is scattered, 70 ad.

The beast, is the iron legs of Dan. 2, Rome. Rome is also the 4th beast of Dan. 7. Israel was scattered and worn down by Rome for 1900 years.

The saints are the holy people whose power is scattered, they are not some blood line in a creed which has no faith in Christ.
The kingdom/church was scattered when Jerusalem was destroyed.

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
7:
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


At the time that this statement was made, Israel was in Babylon. The main question at that time was, how long until Israel is returned to control of Jerusalem and restored there?

Well, the answer was 7 times. But the angel only spoke of the first 3 1/2 ts. The angel said that it would be 3 1/2 ts, until Israel was scattered (70 ad).

That would be, from the captivity in Babylon, until 70 ad., would be the first 3 1/2 ts.


Revelation 12:
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
12:
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.


The Rev speaks about the second 3 1/2 ts, from the dest of Jerusalem, until Israel is restored to control of Jerusalem.

The 2 witnesses, who are the people of Israel, the Law and Prophets, are showing the same time as the woman in ch 12. The same 3 1/2 ts. Israel outside the city.



Daniel 7:
20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
Revelation 13:
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
These are describing the Roman, iron legs/toes, 4th beast, dragon.

The things spoken were he same things that the spirit of Satan always says in one form or another, worship the creation, man is God, there is no God, Satan is God.

Caesar was the one saying these things.


=======

The first 3 1/2 ts, are from Babylon until 70 ad.

The second 3 1/2 ts, are from 70 ad until 1967.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
Well, most scholars place Rev. by John at 94-96 AD........

We probably not know for sure when it was written.

But let me offer this, It doesn't matter if it was written before or after the dest in 70 ad.

The conflict comes when some try to say that everything was finished by 70 ad., including the Rev..

So according to their time line, they must find a way to make every prophecy in the Bible end by 70 ad.

But it just isn't so.

The prophecies and the promises of eternal salvation reach even to us today (those who are far off, Acts 2:38), meaning that we are still fulfilling the promises, prophecies, even today. So the promises were not completely finished at that time.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
The 7 times are the same time period of the statue in Dan. 2.


The statue also shows the time until Israel is restored to Jerusalem. The metals shown are the spiritual traits (also note Dan. 7) of the gentile nations that rule Israel until restoration.

-------------

The statue shows that Rome invades Israel where the brass turns to iron. We know the approx. date, 67 BC.

Then Jesus would be born just after that.

Then the kingdom would have begun on Pentecost. (My opinion is that the organs of reproduction show the beginning of the kingdom on Pentecost, and the organs of discharge show the dest of Jerusalem, 70 AD.)

After that, the next event would be the Roman Empire dividing into two, east and west, sometime in the 200's approx..

This is the first division in the statue, it is caused by the kingdom, as it says Dan. 2:44. "It shall break in pieces", the division of the legs is the first breaking in pieces, dividing in two.

The number 10 means complete division, it's not literal here. When the time of the 10 kings/horns comes, Rome is completely divided. The clay is non-Roman nations that rule over Israel during that time. Rome fell in 476 AD., This was when the period of the ten toes began.

Now notice how the power over Rome diminished over time. The toes get smaller and come to an end. The horns also show reduction in power and come to an end.

So we can see, that the statue has a beginning and an end.

When does the statue end? When Israel is restored to military control over Jerusalem.

When does the seven times end? When Israel is restored to military control over Jerusalem.

That is when the trampling of Jerusalem ends, and that was 1967.

------------------

Then what? The stone strikes.

The stone is not the establishment of the kingdom, that happened before the dividing.

This is Jesus coming to take possession of the kingdom at the 2nd/last/final/7th/last trumpet resurrection Rev 11:15.

See how the last judgement takes place after that. Rev 20:11-15.

---------

When the earth is filled, there is no room for the old. This is a picture of the eternal heaven, with the new earth Rev 21.

Jesus is the new living earth.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
There is this documentary that comes on the PBS channels every now and then about John of Patmos. In it the vast consensus is that the book of Revelation was written circa 95 AD due to who was ruling in Rome at the time (I forget who it was).

As to your second point about the scattering of the holy people in Daniel 12:7, who according to the scripture their power is scattered "for a time, times, and an half"; there are two other areas where this time frame appears, in Daniel 7:25 & Revelation 12:14.
The time, and times, and half a time in which the woman is in the wilderness in Revelation 12:14, Revelation 12:6 discloses consists of 1,260 days. This time frame is approximately 15 days shy of 3.5 years, thus indicating each "time" as 360 days.
A single time (360 days) + 2 times (720 days) + 1/2 a time (180 days)= 1,260 days.

It is also important to note that the power of the holy people which is scattered in Daniel 12:7; Daniel 7:25 describes as the saintswho are worn out by the ten horned beasts little horn (aka the Antichrist), who is also described as the mouth speaking great things in Daniel 7:20 and Revelation 13:5.
The saints are the holy people whose power is scattered, they are not some blood line in a creed which has no faith in Christ.

Daniel 12:7 [FONT="]And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="], all these things shall be finished.
7:[/FONT]
25 [FONT="]And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Revelation 12:[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial][B]14 [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
12:[/FONT]
6 [FONT="]And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="] days.

Daniel 7:[/FONT]
20 [FONT="]And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and [B][U]a mouth that spake very great things[/U][/B], whose look was more stout than his fellows.[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]
Revelation 13:[/FONT]
5 [FONT="]And there was given unto him [B][U]a mouth speaking great things[/U][/B] and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]


[COLOR="#0000CD"]Louis, got a tip for you...If you spent more time reading the Bible and listening to certified scholars instead of listening to PBS, You skills in Bible interpretation might improve. PBS is a left liberal leaning station that uses everything except the truth.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
We probably not know for sure when it was written.

But let me offer this, It doesn't matter if it was written before or after the dest in 70 ad.

The conflict comes when some try to say that everything was finished by 70 ad., including the Rev..

So according to their time line, they must find a way to make every prophecy in the Bible end by 70 ad.

But it just isn't so.

The prophecies and the promises of eternal salvation reach even to us today (those who are far off, Acts 2:38), meaning that we are still fulfilling the promises, prophecies, even today. So the promises were not completely finished at that time.
you said above:"The conflict comes when some try to say that everything was finished by 70 ad., including the Rev..""

Now let me ask you a question.... WHY would GOD write (and yes the Holy Spirit within John told him everything to write) Revelation in 94-96AD if everything in 70AD had been finished.

Use your head,,,These people are false teachers and most call proudly themselves "PRETERIST".


 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
you said above:"The conflict comes when some try to say that everything was finished by 70 ad., including the Rev..""

Now let me ask you a question.... WHY would GOD write (and yes the Holy Spirit within John told him everything to write) Revelation in 94-96AD if everything in 70AD had been finished.

Use your head,,,These people are false teachers and most call proudly themselves "PRETERIST".


Well, I want to laugh a little bit.

Preterists say that everything was fulfilled by 70 AD., and pre-trib says nothing was fulfilled in 70 AD. (surrounding the dest of Jeru)

Ha ha, I think maybe the answer is in the middle.
 
Jul 23, 2017
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the full preterism is heresy is running wild on here.

pull the plug. time to stop it.

its the chihuahua man and plainwrong who keep promoting this. whats going on? many have tried to correct these guys but nothing is working.

if u get some new believers to lose their blessed hope will u then be happy? i recently realized u also deny the bodily resurrection of believers which is a milk truth in christianity. stop it right now and join us regular christians
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
the full preterism is heresy is running wild on here.

pull the plug. time to stop it.

its the chihuahua man and plainwrong who keep promoting this. whats going on? many have tried to correct these guys but nothing is working.

if u get some new believers to lose their blessed hope will u then be happy? i recently realized u also deny the bodily resurrection of believers which is a milk truth in christianity. stop it right now and join us regular christians
You know that they do have some things right.

But, not everything was fulfilled by 70 AD.

------

If someone loves Jesus and His Words,

There is always hope for them.

Remember, we all have been wrong about some things, made mistakes.

So whatever is said and done,

Let it be said and done in love,

Love for Jesus, and each other, especially our brothers and sisters in Jesus.
 
Jul 23, 2017
879
31
0
You know that they do have some things right.

But, not everything was fulfilled by 70 AD.

------

If someone loves Jesus and His Words,

There is always hope for them.

Remember, we all have been wrong about some things, made mistakes.

So whatever is said and done,

Let it be said and done in love,

Love for Jesus, and each other, especially our brothers and sisters in Jesus.

these guys deny Jesus is coming back and the physical resurrection. thats a big big mistake. thats putting a lot of blame on God.

its hard to understand this for me
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
Well, I want to laugh a little bit.

Preterists say that everything was fulfilled by 70 AD., and pre-trib says nothing was fulfilled in 70 AD. (surrounding the dest of Jeru)

Ha ha, I think maybe the answer is in the middle.

Now get it right ABC..... Pre-tribs DO NOT SAY NOTHING was fulfilled in 70AD.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
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you said above:"The conflict comes when some try to say that everything was finished by 70 ad., including the Rev..""
Now let me ask you a question.... WHY would GOD write (and yes the Holy Spirit within John told him everything to write) Revelation in 94-96AD if everything in 70AD had been finished.
Use your head,,,These people are false teachers and most call proudly themselves "PRETERIST".
Exactly. He obviously did not write it in the 90s. All people who say that are getting their information from only one single source, Irenaeus........ who, besides getting a lot of other dates wrong, was not even born, as I recall, until something like 120 AD (24 years after Revelation was supposed to have been written) He never even saw John.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
these guys deny Jesus is coming back and the physical resurrection. thats a big big mistake. thats putting a lot of blame on God.

its hard to understand this for me

I believe that Jesus is coming for us. I believe that there is a resurrection yet to come.

There is no hope if everything was done in 70 AD.

It would mean that the promise of eternal salvation would not apply to anyone past that time.

We are still fulfilling the promises made on Pentecost Acts 2:38, we are the ones who are far off.

-----

But they are correct that Matt 24, Mk 13, LK 21, are about 70 AD.

But they can't see beyond that time, that the promises and prophecies extend to us today.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
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Now get it right ABC..... Pre-tribs DO NOT SAY NOTHING was fulfilled in 70AD.
Notice that I was talking about the dest of Jeru.

There is a lot of variations in the pre-trib teachings, the mid-trib, rap/resus, for example.

Our brother Ahwatukee said that there was only one verse about the dest of Jerusalem, one stone will not be left on another.

So maybe there is one verse.

Do you agree, that there is only one verse regarding the dest of Jeru?
 
Feb 7, 2015
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Notice that I was talking about the dest of Jeru.

There is a lot of variations in the pre-trib teachings, the mid-trib, rap/resus, for example.

Our brother Ahwatukee said that there was only one verse about the dest of Jerusalem, one stone will not be left on another.

So maybe there is one verse.

Do you agree, that there is only one verse regarding the dest of Jeru?
Not in the least.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
Exactly. He obviously did not write it in the 90s. All people who say that are getting their information from only one single source, Irenaeus........ who, besides getting a lot of other dates wrong, was not even born, as I recall, until something like 120 AD (24 years after Revelation was supposed to have been written) He never even saw John.
Within the book itself, I can see many reasons that the Rev may have been written before 70 AD.

And, I can see reasons in there why it may have been written after 70 AD.

-----

The historical evidence is debated, as the imagery within the book is also, to determine the date.

I believe that the book itself is the only true measure of the time line.

---

Correct identification of the symbols, and the characters, is essential to the time line.

What has happened and what will happen.

----

The dest of Jerusalem is, for sure, at the 6th seal. The day of the Lord against Jerusalem Acts 2:16-21. This PROVEN by Lk 23:28-30, Rev 6:16.

But then, that isn't the end of the story of the little scroll, is it? (Little scroll of the 7 seals)

There are 7 trumpets yet to sound, before the story of the little scroll is completed.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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Within the book itself, I can see many reasons that the Rev may have been written before 70 AD.
And, I can see reasons in there why it may have been written after 70 AD.
The historical evidence is debated, as the imagery within the book is also, to determine the date.

I believe that the book itself is the only true measure of the time line.
Correct identification of the symbols, and the characters, is essential to the time line.


What has happened and what will happen.
The dest of Jerusalem is, for sure, at the 6th seal. The day of the Lord against Jerusalem Acts 2:16-21. This PROVEN by Lk 23:28-30, Rev 6:16.
But then, that isn't the end of the story of the little scroll, is it? (Little scroll of the 7 seals)
There are 7 trumpets yet to sound, before the story of the little scroll is completed.
Yes, those two points are imperative.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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The kingdom of God is within us. Nothing to be concerned about. Jesus is coming back. No reason to lose that hope. Seek the Kingdom, and the King. Is our peace. The wrath will not be on His own.