The end of the world is coming. What should we be looking for?

[abcdef]

abcdef,
No disrespect, but your perspective is dogma without scriptural support.

I have previously posted how the angel in Daniel 8:17 & 19 informs Daniel that the events in Daniel chapters 7 through 9 regard the end times. How do you explain Caesar fitting into the end times?

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Dan. 8:20, "The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia."

V 21, "And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king."

Dan. 2:32 The silver and the brass.

 

[abcdef]

Many things wrong with this post........

Prove me wrong, start anywhere you want.

 

[abcdef]

Considering the evidence used to support both the earlier date and the later date for the writing of the Book of Revelation brings us to a simple conclusion. The most logical and historically responsible conclusion, based on all the evidence, is that Revelation was, in fact, written prior to AD 68 and many of the events foretold in it may refer to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

Willie-T,

The main reason that I think that the Rev was written after 70 ad is that the scroll of the 7 seals could not be open until after Jerusalem was destroyed.

The angel says in Dan. 12:4-7, that the little scroll can't be opened until after the power of the holy people had been scattered, 70 ad implied.

---

 

[garee]

The iron legs of Dan 2 are Rome, you agree that the legs dividing are Rome dividing.

And Dan. 7 shows the 4th beast as being Rome.

The beast that has 7 heads that are 7 hills/mts. in Rev 17:9 is Rome.

----

Who is the head of Rome but Caesar/BoR?

When it talks about the beast, it is talking about all three entities at once, Satan (the dragon), Rome (the beast), and Caesar/BoR (the leader/head of the beast).

The sea mentioned in Rev 13:1, is the sea of the gentile peoples Rev 17:15. See how the whole passage symbolic.

The beast that comes out of the sea of the gentiles has 7 heads and ten horns, Rome. Caesar is Rome.

----

The beast that comes up from the earth is rising from the religious world, as the earth is closer to heaven and God than the sea of the gentiles. This is religious Rome, Caesar worship (worship the creation, man as god).

The Roman Empire died, but Caesar worship continued to this day, under the form of the Vatican/BoR.

Just a suggestion .Finding the spiritual understanding of that parable is the key to understanding the poetic language of God it is signified using the things seen to represent the eternal not seen.

I would think the whole statue represents the kingdoms or denominations of this world that walk by sight.

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

The bible is concerned with the spiritual things of this world, not the political nations as kingdoms . I agree with Rome. Rome represents one of them. Why Rome alone?

Eastons dictionary.. Figuratively, a yoke of iron (Deut. 28:48) denotes hard service; a rod of iron (Ps. 2:9), a stern government; a pillar of iron (Jer. 1:18), a strong support; a furnace of iron (Deut.4:20), severe labour; a bar of iron (Job 40:18), strength;fetters of iron (Ps. 107:10), affliction; giving silver for iron
Isa. 60:17), prosperity.

The city on the hill/mountain is the bride of Christ . Seven represents perfection. The church is a representative glory .It cannot be hid under a basket

And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;Rev 21:10

 

[Snoozy]

Just a suggestion .Finding the spiritual understanding of that parable is the key to understanding the poetic language of God it is signified using the things seen to represent the eternal not seen.

if u do this u can make the bible say whatever u want it to say.

i think the mountain signifies the hill in my backyard. sometimes ants are on it. the ants signify the church goers. sometimes it rains, this is when God gives us living water through the Holy Spirit.

 

[abcdef]

Just a suggestion .Finding the spiritual understanding of that parable is the key to understanding the poetic language of God it is signified using the things seen to represent the eternal not seen.

I would think the whole statue represents the kingdoms or denominations of this world that walk by sight.

The statue of Dan. 2 would be the gentile nations that rule over Israel until they are restored to control of Jerusalem and the times of the gentiles comes to and end. In 1967 the time of the statue ended. we are now at the time of the stone striking, which is Jesus coming for the kingdom.

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

The bible is concerned with the spiritual things of this world, not the political nations as kingdoms . I agree with Rome. Rome represents one of them. Why Rome alone?

God has used many gentile nations to punish Israel. It's just that Rome has been the nation for the last 1900 years.

Eastons dictionary.. Figuratively, a yoke of iron (Deut. 28:48) denotes hard service; a rod of iron (Ps. 2:9), a stern government; a pillar of iron (Jer. 1:18), a strong support; a furnace of iron (Deut.4:20), severe labour; a bar of iron (Job 40:18), strength;fetters of iron (Ps. 107:10), affliction; giving silver for iron
Isa. 60:17), prosperity.

The city on the hill/mountain is the bride of Christ . Seven represents perfection. The church is a representative glory .It cannot be hid under a basket

And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;Rev 21:10

I agree with this, I'm just not sure which passage that you are linking it to.

The woman in Rev 17 is false religion, with her origins in the tower of Babylon, but has great power with Rome.

 

[abcdef]

if u do this u can make the bible say whatever u want it to say.

i think the mountain signifies the hill in my backyard. sometimes ants are on it. the ants signify the church goers. sometimes it rains, this is when God gives us living water through the Holy Spirit.

The original symbolism is in the OT passages.

Study the symbolism of the OT, then study the NT with the OT symbolism in mind.

Israel olive tree.

Light good, dark bad.

7 complete.

It's not just what ever you want.

 

[oyster67]

The spiritual ascension (rapture) of the Lords people comes at the end of the Great tribulation, which correlates with the blessing on day 1,335 in Daniel 12:12.

Daniel 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Rapture after Tribulation???? You will never mash that oddball piece into the puzzle, no matter how big the hammer you try to use.

 

[dcontroversal]

Rapture after Tribulation???? You will never mash that oddball piece into the puzzle, no matter how big the hammer you try to use.

Who needs a hammer...scripture teaches it.....!

 

[Snoozy]

is the church appointed to God's wrath yes or no? if no. then we're out before seals are opened because its Lamb opening the seals.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Rapture after Tribulation???? You will never mash that oddball piece into the puzzle, no matter how big the hammer you try to use.

Good day oyster67,

If you are interested, I have been doing a teaching on Revelation for several months now. To get to all of the blogs on Revelation, at the top of the page just click on "Christian Blogs" and then on "Member blogs". Then over on the left side of the page click on "Ahwatukee" and it will take you to all of the blogs done on Revelation done so far.

Hope to see you out there!

 

[oyster67]

I never change my position, you just misread what I post.

There are not two second coming and is the reason for the confusion:

The gathering of the church = The Lord descending from heaven to the atmosphere (as a thief in the night) with dead resurrecting in their immortal and glorified bodies. Immediately after that, the living in Christ will be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies and being caught up with those who will have just resurrected. From their the Lord will take the entire church back to the Father's house in fulfillment of John 14:1-3.

The second coming = The Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom. This event cannot be referred to as "coming like a thief in the night" because it is marked by all kings of signs leading right up to when the Lord returns. According to Revelation, the Lord returns shortly after the 7th bowl has been poured out. Therefore if I was on the earth during this time, I could simply follow the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments knowing that after the 7th bowl was poured out that Jesus would be returning in close proximity. In opposition, we have no signs preceding the Lord's appearing to gather the church. None! The only indication that we are close to our being gathered is because we can see the events being set up that are to take place during the time of God's wrath, such as the technology for the mark of the beast, which is already in use and which will evolve into that coming mark. We can also tell by the state of the world and what is going on with Israel.

Therefore, when the Lord comes for the church he is not returning to the earth, but calling the church up to take us back to the Father's house. The next time that he does return to the earth will be after his wrath has completed and that to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.

Praise the Lord! Such clarity, such truth. Refreshing indeed. One Spirit, one Truth, one Baptism. The amount of false teaching and opposition to the Truth is evidence that we are nearing the end of the trail. Hold fast and be not discouraged, my brother.

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

 

[Bladerunner]

The rapture marks the beginning of the Tribulation.

HI oyster67....I am not so sure Daniel's 70th week starts immediately after the Rapture. The anti-christ has to confirm a covenant with Israel and unless he is already a well-known charismatic leader (very unlikely), he will have to time to become a world leader. I fall to a Gap in this area of unknown time. There are several time Gaps in the Bible so this does not set a precedence.

I very well could be wrong. Satan has had to have someone in the batters box since the beginning of the Church at Pentecost. Although, in the early years, he (satan) was probably not worried about it too much. However, in these later years, it becomes more apparent every day, that the number of Christians in the Body of Christ is reaching that number where God, the Father tells Jesus to come after His Church. Some would ask why.... I see apostasy everyday and even though in some countries the percentage is rising, here in the US, it is declining.

Now I am just doddering along....

Hope you have a blessed day,

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

Funny thing.....the whole letter is written unto 7 churches and if we use his analogy....we must dump about 3/4 of the New Testament because in many church letters the church that the letter is written to is not mentioned after the first chapter or so........and even though saints/elect are identified with new testament churches ALL THROUGH THE WHOLE N.T. when we get to REVELATION the saints listed in REVELATION are not church members....ignorance.....

hey DC,,,what whole letter....there are seven.

 

[oyster67]

HI oyster67....I am not so sure Daniel's 70th week starts immediately after the Rapture. The anti-christ has to confirm a covenant with Israel and unless he is already a well-known charismatic leader (very unlikely), he will have to time to become a world leader. I fall to a Gap in this area of unknown time. There are several time Gaps in the Bible so this does not set a precedence.

I very well could be wrong. Satan has had to have someone in the batters box since the beginning of the Church at Pentecost. Although, in the early years, he (satan) was probably not worried about it too much. However, in these later years, it becomes more apparent every day, that the number of Christians in the Body of Christ is reaching that number where God, the Father tells Jesus to come after His Church. Some would ask why.... I see apostasy everyday and even though in some countries the percentage is rising, here in the US, it is declining.

Now I am just doddering along....

Hope you have a blessed day,

Blade

Thank you. God bless you. I have been taught that the Antichrist will rise to full stature 3.5 years into the Trib. I have heard this center point called the beginning of the Great Tribulation.

 

[Bladerunner]

Rev 4:1 There is no mention of the church. As for as a prophetic allusion, that is just your opinion.

hey Ellsworth.. Yes, the church represented by the 24 elders are there.... we see the throne in another book, that has the twenty-four thrones but not the elders.

 

[Bladerunner]

Who needs a hammer...scripture teaches it.....!

show me, the scripture also tells us that the anti-christ cannot be publically known until the restrainer is removed. according everything , I have read, the restrainer is the Holy Spirit.

Even if one decides this does not represent the restrainer in the Church, all restraints are remove from the evil on earth....something which the Church is not supposed to go through. God's Wrath

Now having read your book, you and I are at odds on just what is considered God's Wrath.... maybe we should have a discussion about this and lay our cards on the table for all to see???????????? if ok with you,,,,,,by all means start it off my friend.

 

[Bladerunner]

Bladerunner, you are again posting multiple claims without providing scriptural support. Instead of just giving us an unsupported diatribe as many do, would it not be better to support one or two claims with Gods Word?
You missed Luke 21 that also correlates with Mark 13, and Matthew 24.
You also did not respond to my post #254 contradicting your perspective in post 244.
I will post it again below, in case you missed it.

John 2, Jesus is teahching Christians during the day and in the temple. The AoD mentioned here by Jesus is during 70AD and the roman commander TITUS.

ps. I do give support just not on line....you actually have to go to a bible online or otherwise and look it up.......




Post 254:
I will address your first two claims in your latest retort.
First: If the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not (Mark 13:14) is not the Antichrist standing in the hearts of the Lords people, but instead is his standing in a rebuilt third stone building temple in which God dwells; you are then contradicting the scriptures I previously posted indicating the Lord does not dwell in stone edifices, but instead dwells in people.

Claim number 2: for some kind of an idolatrous object placed within some stone building representing some object that the people of earth will worship/love does not stand to common sense reason.
The common sense reason why the people of the world will love the Antichrist is because he will cause craft to prosper (Daniel 8:25), which is to say, he will bring about a great economic time.
He will therefore stand in our hearts (where he ought not (Mark 13:14)), in place of God.
Simple common sense reasoning. Not some mumbo jumbo dogma.

Daniel 8:25 [FONT="]And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#333333]Mark 13:14 [/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial][B] [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:[/FONT][FONT="]

[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="#0000CD"]louis, The rest of your post is jibberish, cannot make heads or tails of it.

 

[Bladerunner]

Willie-T,

The main reason that I think that the Rev was written after 70 ad is that the scroll of the 7 seals could not be open until after Jerusalem was destroyed.

The angel says in Dan. 12:4-7, that the little scroll can't be opened until after the power of the holy people had been scattered, 70 ad implied.

---

Well, most scholars place Rev. by John at 94-96 AD........

 

[Bladerunner]

Considering the evidence used to support both the earlier date and the later date for the writing of the Book of Revelation brings us to a simple conclusion. The most logical and historically responsible conclusion, based on all the evidence, is that Revelation was, in fact, written prior to AD 68 and many of the events foretold in it may refer to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

How can that be,,,,,who wrote it,,,,then, it was written from Patmos and John was not there in 68AD. He did not write his other books from Patmos either.