When was the Messiah put in the grave? and when did He resurrect?

beta · Nov 6, 2017

Sorry to say Marc you are all over the place ... trying for a sunday resurrection. It is very easy for someone to get confused when they are not sticking to scripture...which Yahshua's death/ burial/ and resurrection are based on 1Cor 15v3,4.
As Hizikyah has clearly pointed out as well...resurrection and ascension are not the same thing happening on the same day...Sabbath AND sunday are in play here but for different reasons.

beta · Nov 6, 2017

Hizikyah said:

satan trying to throw a spanner in the works ? Thanks to the Lord we are one step ahead and stay focused and united !

Hizikyah · Nov 6, 2017

beta said:

It is wonderful to be united in Yah! praiseYah!

beta · Nov 6, 2017

Hizikyah said:

It's a true 'love-affair' !!! not only with Him but also each other !

Ahwatukee · Nov 6, 2017

beta said:

Greetings Beta,

As I posted some time ago, Jesus being in the heart of the earth 3 days and 3 nights is very easy to explain once one understands that there were two Sabbath days back to back at that time.

The feast of unleavened bread which is celebrated for seven days, has the first and seventh day as a Sabbaths. According to the law on the first and seventh day of the of feast of unleavened bread they were to do not work (Sabbath) and hold a sacred assembly.

Jesus was crucified at the sixth hour (9am to 12pm) and died during the ninth hour (12pm to 3pm). Since he died before sunset it was considered as day one of being in the earth. When sunset came at around 6pm it initiated the next day which began the special Sabbath of unleavened bread, with the following sunset initiating the regular weekly Sabbath. Two Sabbaths back to back. We know this to be true because Jesus was in the upper room with his disciples eating the Passover, which is directly related to the feast of unleavened bread.

That there were two Sabbaths back to back is irrefutable and that because it is written in the law. It just so happened that the Sabbath of unleavened bread fell the day before the regular weekly Sabbath. When scripture says that the woman went to the tomb after the Sabbath, it was after both Sabbaths had completed. This is how Jesus was in the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights and in that order.

Hizikyah · Nov 6, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Greetings Beta,

As I posted some time ago, Jesus being in the heart of the earth 3 days and 3 nights is very easy to explain once one understands that there were two Sabbath days back to back at that time.

The feast of unleavened bread which is celebrated for seven days, has the first and seventh day as a Sabbaths. According to the law on the first and seventh day of the of feast of unleavened bread they were to do not work (Sabbath) and hold a sacred assembly.

Jesus was crucified at the sixth hour (9am to 12pm) and died during the ninth hour (12pm to 3pm). Since he died before sunset it was considered as day one of being in the earth. When sunset came at around 6pm it initiated the next day which began the special Sabbath of unleavened bread, with the following sunset initiating the regular weekly Sabbath. Two Sabbaths back to back. We know this to be true because Jesus was in the upper room with his disciples eating the Passover, which is directly related to the feast of unleavened bread.

That there were two Sabbaths back to back is irrefutable and that because it is written in the law. It just so happened that the Sabbath of unleavened bread fell the day before the regular weekly Sabbath. When scripture says that the woman went to the tomb after the Sabbath, it was after both Sabbaths had completed. This is how Jesus was in the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights and in that order.

How were the disciples eating the Passover the day before the Passover? Yahshua was Sacrificed on the 14th of Abib, the Passover (preperation)....

Ahwatukee · Nov 6, 2017

Hizikyah said:

"When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer.For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God."

After they ate the Passover, they then went to the garden of Gethsemane which is where Judas lead the armed men who arrested Jesus.

The following is the entire event:

"Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. 8Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover.”

"Where do you want us to prepare for it?” they asked.

He replied, “As you enter the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him to the house that he enters, and say to the owner of the house, ‘The Teacher asks: Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?’ He will show you a large room upstairs, all furnished. Make preparations there.”

They left and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover.

When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.”

Hizikyah · Nov 6, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Faulty translatiuon has created a misunderstanding;

1. the word "day" is supplied, and is not in the Greek text.

2. The greek word "protos" is used as first as in before and as first

Matthew 26:17
New International Version
On the first* day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?"

“first” is word #G4413. prótos

Strong's Concordance
prótos: first, chief
Original Word: πρῶτος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: prótos
Phonetic Spelling: (pro'-tos)
Short Definition: first, before
Definition: first, before, principal, most important.

John 1:15 Adj-NMS
GRK: γέγονεν ὅτι πρῶτός μου ἦν
NAS: than I, for He existed before me.'

KJV: for he was before me.

INT: has for before me he was

The Passover was not until the following day, this is fact;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 13:1, “And[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] before the Festival of the Passover[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]knowing that His hour had come that He should move out of this world unto the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end.” [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]TS 2009[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]13:1, “Now [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]before the Feast of the Passover[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], when Jesus knew that his hour had come to depart out of this world to the Father, having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.” [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ESV

If you think that the common translation is correct you have a bigger problem in there is a glaring contradiction, unless one properly translaters "protos" as "before" rather than "first" and adding the word "day" to the greek text
[/FONT]
All the Scriptres have to be taken into consideration and the Konie Greek original as opposed to traditional translation.

Hizikyah · Nov 6, 2017

Again how was it already the Passover and it was the preperation for the Passover when He was being Sacrificed?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 19:14-18, “Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover. It was about the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, “Behold your King! They cried out, “Away with him, away with him, crucify him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar. So he delivered him over to them to be crucified. So they took Jesus, and he went out, bearing his own cross, to the place called The Place of a Skull, which in Aramaic is called Golgotha. There they crucified him, and with him two others, one on either side, and Jesus between them.” ESV

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]This is why some [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]intellectual[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]types[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] think the Bible is not trustworthy, not because it contradicts but because faulty translation it seems to contradict.[/FONT] [/FONT]

Ahwatukee · Nov 6, 2017

HA, HA! You give them the answer and they still fight tooth and nail. Luke is not a faulty translation. Until you understand that there were two Sabbaths back to back, one for the feast of unleavened bread directly followed by the regular weekly Sabbath, you won't understand. Look what you did. I gave you the answer which mentions the feast of unleavened bread and Passover and instead of believing you came up with an apologetic to refute it.

Go ahead and continue to remain in the dark regarding this if you desire Hizikyah, but understand that you have received the truth of this matter.

Ahwatukee · Nov 6, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Again how was it already the Passover and it was the preperation for the Passover when He was being Sacrificed?

John 19:14-18, “Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover. It was about the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, “Behold your King! They cried out, “Away with him, away with him, crucify him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar. So he delivered him over to them to be crucified. So they took Jesus, and he went out, bearing his own cross, to the place called The Place of a Skull, which in Aramaic is called Golgotha. There they crucified him, and with him two others, one on either side, and Jesus between them.” ESV

This is why some intellectualtypes think the Bible is not trustworthy, not because it contradicts but because faulty translation it seems to contradict.

Read the scripture, as it is self explanatory. I just gave you the answer from scripture. Believe it or don't believe it!

Hizikyah · Nov 6, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

So how did the Passiover already pass when Yahshua was on the execution stake for the preeration fo the Passover?

John 19:14-18, “Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover. It was about the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, “Behold your King! They cried out, “Away with him, away with him, crucify him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar. So he delivered him over to them to be crucified. So they took Jesus, and he went out, bearing his own cross, to the place called The Place of a Skull, which in Aramaic is called Golgotha. There they crucified him, and with him two others, one on either side, and Jesus between them.” ESV

I ahve studied this through and through, if it is the way you say there are 2 Passovers, if it is how I say there is 1 passover...

Ahwatukee · Nov 6, 2017

Hizakyah, please pay attention to the following:

"On the fourteenth day of the first month the Lord’s Passover is to be held. On the fifteenth day of this month there is to be a festival; for seven days eat bread made without yeast. On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work."

"On the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work."

14th day = Passover

15th day = The first day of unleavened bread. (no work is to be done "Sabbath")

Jesus at the Passover with his disciples on the 14th. Sunset of that same day came which started the next day which was the 15th day the beginning of the first day of unleavened bread on which they were to do no work and which a special Sabbath. At the end of that day at sunset began the next day which was the regular weekly Sabbath; two Sabbaths back to back.

Do you understand now?

Hizikyah · Nov 6, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Yesterday or the day before you told me it was on the 7th day of Unleavened Bread...

Ahwatukee said:

Hizikyah said:

Now 1 or 2 days later you say this, I am not trying to be ruce, but you were in error the other day, I showed you in Scripture the truth, seems you have accepted that, but have come from a new angle, Im open to hear contering views, but this you are presenting to me I alredy know, I myself had this dame issue years ago.... I have studied this for years, Im not saying there was not High Sabbath and weekly Sabbath, Im saying there was not 2 Passovers, the verse you present, if it is the way you say makes 2 Passovers, there is not 2, there is onlyone, if protos is translated properly there is only 1 Passover...

Faulty translation has created a misunderstanding;

1. the word "day" is supplied, and is not in the Greek text.

2. The Greek word "protos" is used as first as in before and as first

Matthew 26:17 New International Version
“On the first* day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?”

“*first” is word #G4413 - prótos: first, chief, Original Word: πρῶτος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: prótos, Phonetic Spelling: (pro'-tos), Short Definition: first, before, Definition: first, before, principal, most important.

John 1:15 Adj-NMS
GRK: γέγονεν ὅτι πρῶτός μου ἦν
NAS: than I, for He existed before me.'
KJV: for he was before me.
INT: has for before me he was

John 1:30 Adj-NMS
GRK: γέγονεν ὅτι πρῶτός μου ἦν
NAS: than I, for He existed before me.'
KJV: for he was before me.
INT: has because before me he was

2 Peter 2:20 Adj-GNP
GRK: χείρονα τῶν πρώτων
NAS: worse for them than the first.
KJV: is worse with them than the beginning.
INT: worse than the first

The Passover was not until the following day, this is fact;

John 13:1, “And before the Festival of the Passover, יהושע knowing that His hour had come that He should move out of this world unto the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end.” TS 2009

John 13:1, “Now before the Feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour had come to depart out of this world to the Father, having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.” ESV

How had the Passover already passed when it was the preparation for the Passover when He was being Sacrificed?

John 19:14-18, “And it was the Preparation Day of the Pĕsaḥ week, and about the sixth hour. And he said to the Yehuḏim, “See your Sovereign! But they shouted, “Away, away, impale Him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I impale your Sovereign?” The chief priests answered, “We have no sovereign except Caesar! At that time, then, he delivered Him to them to be impaled. And they took יהושע and led Him away. And bearing His stake, He went out to the so-called Place of a Skull, which is called in Hebrew, Golgotha, where they impaled Him, and two others with Him, one on this side and one on that side, and יהושע in the middle.” TS 2009

John 19:14-18, “Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover. It was about the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, “Behold your King! They cried out, “Away with him, away with him, crucify him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar. So he delivered him over to them to be crucified. So they took Jesus, and he went out, bearing his own cross, to the place called The Place of a Skull, which in Aramaic is called Golgotha. There they crucified him, and with him two others, one on either side, and Jesus between them.” ESV

This is why some intellectual types think the Bible is not trustworthy, not because it contradicts but because faulty translation it seems to contradict. If you think that the common translation is correct you have a bigger problem in there would be a glaring contradiction, unless one properly translates "protos" as "before" rather than "first" and then adding the word "day" to the text to complete the error, when the word “day” is not in the Konie Greek manuscripts. All the Scriptures have to be taken into consideration and the Konie Greek original as opposed to traditional translation. In the traditional translation there would be 2 Passovers, if protos is translated properly and the word day is not added to the text, there is 1 Passover.

beta · Nov 6, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Hi friend, you and I don't speak much with each other...always busy elsewhere.
Agreed there were 2 Sabbaths that week...but back to back ? that raises some problems....
WHEN did the women buy and prepare spices (not a 5 minute job but many hours) then rest on the weekly sabbath as per commandment ?
They could not have done if it was a sabbath/high day Joh 19v31 (1st day of unl Bread) and the evening before was when Jesus'Yahshua was placed in the tomb at the setting of the sun with the women watching from a distance Lk 23v49....so they had not gone and prepared spices yet ...and immediately after burial was a holy day, could not do it then nor on the sabbath following the first sabbath...this takes it all up to the start of the first day of the week when the women went to the tomb to anoint Jesus...but had no ointments ?
According to your count/reckoning there has been no opportunity to buy and prepare spices/ointments yet here they are early sunday morning while still dark...with ointments ! does not fit !
There was a day between the 2 sabbaths when the women bought spices.and prepared ointments...then rested. I have worked in a Herbalist's with these raw-materials and believe me they require a lot of hard work to turn them into ointments or lotions.

We know that the Jews keep Passover on the 15 nth and not on the 14 th as commanded so it is not likely that Jesus would go against God's command to keep it on another day than given by God...He would have broken God's law...so therefore Jesus/Yahshua took Passover-meal on the day before the Jews did who had their own traditions Jesus found so much fault with.

When calculating time we read that Jesus' death, burial and resurrection were ACCORDING to SCRIPTURE and not human/jewish reckoning. With God 1 day-time and 1 night-time are 24 hours and 3x would be 72 hours...a simple mathematical fact. ..so since Jesus was already risen early sunday morning while still dark it must have occured earlier ...as scriptures support.

I am not going to enter into an argument with you as it has all been said many times . God bless !

Hizikyah · Nov 6, 2017

[TABLE]
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[TD] Day Time/
Night Time
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[TD="width: 25%"] 3 Days & 3 Nights
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[TD="width: 25%"] Verses
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[TD="width: 25%, bgcolor: #000000"] 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Night/Sunday
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[TR]
[TD="width: 25%"] 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Day/Sunday
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]

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[TD="width: 25%"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 25%, bgcolor: #000000"] 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Night/Monday
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%, bgcolor: #000000"]

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[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="width: 25%"] 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Day/Monday
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[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="width: 25%, bgcolor: #000000"] 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] Night/Tuesday
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[TD="width: 25%"] 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] Day/Tuesday
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[TD="width: 25%"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 25%, bgcolor: #000000"] 4[SUP]th[/SUP] Night/Wednesday
14[SUP]th[/SUP] of Abib
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[TD="width: 25%"] 4[SUP]th[/SUP] Day/Wednesday
14[SUP]th[/SUP] of Abib
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] Preparation Day/Passover Sacrificed
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] Yahshua Sacrificed and Placed in Tomb Before Sundown
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[TD="width: 25%"] Yahshua is the Passover Lamb
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[TR]
[TD="width: 25%, bgcolor: #000000"] 5[SUP]th[/SUP] Night/Thursday
15[SUP]th[/SUP] of Abib
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[TD="width: 25%, bgcolor: #000000"] High Sabbath/Feast of Unleavened Bread Begins
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[TD="width: 25%, bgcolor: #000000"] 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Night in Tomb
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[TD="width: 25%"] 5[SUP]th[/SUP] Day/Thursday
15[SUP]th[/SUP] of Abib
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[TD="width: 25%"] High Sabbath/Feast of Unleavened Bread Ends
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[TD="width: 25%"] 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Day in Tomb
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[TD="width: 25%, bgcolor: #000000"] 6[SUP]th[/SUP] Night/Friday
16[SUP]th[/SUP] of Abib
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[TD="width: 25%, bgcolor: #000000"] Guards Guard Tomb for Night 2 of 3
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[TD="width: 25%, bgcolor: #000000"] 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Night in Tomb
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[TD="width: 25%"] 6[SUP]th[/SUP] Day/Friday
16[SUP]th[/SUP] of Abib
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[TD="width: 25%"] Guards Guard Tomb for Day 2 of 3
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[TD="width: 25%"] 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Day in Tomb
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[TD="width: 25%, bgcolor: #000000"] 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Night/Sabbath
17[SUP]th[/SUP] of Abib
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[TD="width: 25%, bgcolor: #000000"] 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath Begins
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[TD="width: 25%, bgcolor: #000000"] 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] Night in Tomb
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[TD="width: 25%"] 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day/Sabbath
17[SUP]th[/SUP] of Abib
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[TD="width: 25%"] 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath Ends
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[TD="width: 25%"] 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] Day in Tomb
Yahshua Resurrects just before Sundown
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[TD="width: 25%, bgcolor: #000000"] 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Night/Sunday
18[SUP]th[/SUP] of Abib
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[TD="width: 25%, bgcolor: #000000"] Feast of First Fruits
Begins
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[TD="width: 25%"] 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Day/Sunday
18[SUP]th[/SUP] of Abib
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] Feast of First Fruits
Ends
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[TD="width: 25%"] Women Show Up to Empty Tomb at Sunrise
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[TD="width: 25%"] Yahshua presents Himself as Firstfruits to YHWH
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[/TABLE]

Ahwatukee · Nov 6, 2017

Hello Beta,

Since Jesus died during the nine hour, which would have been between 12pm and 3pm, the women had plenty of time to buy spices prior to sunset. This does not present a problem to me. Without the two Sabbaths back to back, it is impossible to get Jesus being in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights. Regarding this, John referred to the first day of unleavened bread as being a "special Sabbath." The following sunset began the regular weekly Sabbath; two Sabbaths back to back.

"Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.

It was a special Sabbath because the the first Sabbath was the first day of unleavened bread with the regular weekly Sabbath following it.

Ahwatukee · Nov 6, 2017

That is incorrect Hizikyah. The order is 3 days and 3 nights. Since Jesus died between 12pm and 3pm, and was buried prior to sunset, it still counts as taking place on that day and therefore is considered the first day. Remember what Jesus said to thief who was crucified with him when he said "Lord remember me when you come into your kingdom?" Jesus said said "truly is say to you, today you will be with me in paradise. So, even though they had died and were buried anywhere from 3 to 6 hours before sunset, it was still considered day one of the 3 days. It's not based on hours, but at what time the event took place. Since Jesus died and was buried prior to sunset, it was still considered day one.

Ahwatukee · Nov 6, 2017

Your are correct and my apology. I was referring to the wrong Sabbath day, as there is one on the first day of the feast of unleavened bread and one on the seventh day of unleavened bread. My point in all of this is that the Sabbath on the first day of unleavened bread is a Sabbath day which fell one day before the regular weekly Sabbath so that there were two Sabbaths back to back. John referred to the first day of unleavened bread as a "special Sabbath" meaning that the regular weekly Sabbath would follow.

Day 1 = Jesus dies and is buried anywhere from 3 to 6 hours prior to sunset

Night 1 = Sunset after Christ is crucified begins day 2 and the special Sabbath of unleavened bread

Day 2 = Still the Sabbath of unleavened bread until sunset

Night 2 = Begins at sunset after day 2 and starts the regular weekly Sabbath

Day 3 = Follows night 2 and is still the regular weekly Sabbath

Night 3 = Begins at sunset with Jesus resurrecting sometime prior to sunrise. The women go to the tomb prior to sunrise with Jesus having already resurrected.

garee · Nov 6, 2017

I would offer the parable ” heart of the earth” does not mean in the tomb. If he wanted it to mean three days in the tomb .I think it would read that way

It refers to a living suffering, giving ones spirit life in jeopardy of oneself. Also referred to drinking the blood.
God cannot die. Jesus became sin on the night He was betrayed, included suffering, the crucifixion, death and resurrection, totaling three days and three nights.

"In the heart of the earth" is the wickedness of man's heart deceitful and beyond repair Jer 17.

Joh 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

Jesus Christ was occupied in the suffering from the moment He was "betrayed into the hands of men" until He rose again at the dawn of the third day.

On the night He was betrayed, the very words after healing the servant's ear, Jesus said to those arresting Him

"But this is your hour, and the power of darkness" (Luke 22:53)

When was the Messiah put in the grave? and when did He resurrect?

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