-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
[FONT="][SUP]24 [/SUP]Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. [SUP]25 [/SUP]For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. (Matt. 16: 24, 25)
IN my opinion these verses and especially the phrase, “take up his cross”, are some of the keys to an appreciation of baptism in water in the name of Christ. Many commentaries speak of preparing one’s self for the difficulties and problems that will come in following Christ and the reliance in God that we must have find to persevere. This is certainly good advice, but the meaning of “take up your cross” is far deeper than that. When Jesus took up His cross it was in preparation of His crucifixion and death for the sins of the world. Similarly, I believe, when we are instructed to take up our cross, it is because we must die to the old self with his passion and pride and sin. Please consider the following verses.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, [SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; [SUP]7 [/SUP]for he who has died is freed from sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, (Rom. 6: 3-8)
(1) If we want to know how to enter into a relationship with Christ, there it is. By faith we are baptized into Christ.
(2) When we are baptized into Christ, we are baptized into His death.
(3) Continuing the figure, we are buried with Him through baptism into death.
(4) Why? So that we might arise with Him in the likeness of His resurrection to the newness of life.
(5) For if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him. (2 Tim. 2: 11)
(6) the old self was crucified with Him in order that the body of sins, our sins, might be done away.
(7) We are no longer a slave to sin. We have been freed from sin and its consequences. Praise God!
(8) Is baptism related to the forgiveness of sins in Acts 2: 38? You better believe it!
(9) Now if we believe we have died with Christ, we believe we shall also live with him.
(10) Is baptism in the name of Christ relevant to salvation? Its God’s plan, not ours!
(11) Are we saved by grace? Certainly! By the grace of God He might taste death for everyone. (Heb. 2: 9)
(12) Are we saved through faith? Yes! (Eph. 2: 9) When are faith leads us to repent and be baptized in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of sin.
(13) Are saved by repentance? Yes! (2 Cor. 7: 10)
(14) Are we saved through baptism? Yes! When we by faith obey our Lord, we are sprinkled with the blood of Christ, cleansing us from sin. (1 Peter 1: 1, 2) As our bodies are washed with pure water, our hearts are sprinkled clean from an evil conscience. (Heb. 10: 22)
God bless.
[/FONT]
IN my opinion these verses and especially the phrase, “take up his cross”, are some of the keys to an appreciation of baptism in water in the name of Christ. Many commentaries speak of preparing one’s self for the difficulties and problems that will come in following Christ and the reliance in God that we must have find to persevere. This is certainly good advice, but the meaning of “take up your cross” is far deeper than that. When Jesus took up His cross it was in preparation of His crucifixion and death for the sins of the world. Similarly, I believe, when we are instructed to take up our cross, it is because we must die to the old self with his passion and pride and sin. Please consider the following verses.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, [SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; [SUP]7 [/SUP]for he who has died is freed from sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, (Rom. 6: 3-8)
(1) If we want to know how to enter into a relationship with Christ, there it is. By faith we are baptized into Christ.
(2) When we are baptized into Christ, we are baptized into His death.
(3) Continuing the figure, we are buried with Him through baptism into death.
(4) Why? So that we might arise with Him in the likeness of His resurrection to the newness of life.
(5) For if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him. (2 Tim. 2: 11)
(6) the old self was crucified with Him in order that the body of sins, our sins, might be done away.
(7) We are no longer a slave to sin. We have been freed from sin and its consequences. Praise God!
(8) Is baptism related to the forgiveness of sins in Acts 2: 38? You better believe it!
(9) Now if we believe we have died with Christ, we believe we shall also live with him.
(10) Is baptism in the name of Christ relevant to salvation? Its God’s plan, not ours!
(11) Are we saved by grace? Certainly! By the grace of God He might taste death for everyone. (Heb. 2: 9)
(12) Are we saved through faith? Yes! (Eph. 2: 9) When are faith leads us to repent and be baptized in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of sin.
(13) Are saved by repentance? Yes! (2 Cor. 7: 10)
(14) Are we saved through baptism? Yes! When we by faith obey our Lord, we are sprinkled with the blood of Christ, cleansing us from sin. (1 Peter 1: 1, 2) As our bodies are washed with pure water, our hearts are sprinkled clean from an evil conscience. (Heb. 10: 22)
God bless.
[/FONT]
Baptized into Christ is required for salvation, but water baptism not always mean baptized into Christ.
You can Baptized into water 100 x and may not baptized into Christ.
I know one baptized 2 x and not change, still drink and gambling.
Fisrt Presbyterian type of baptized, than his sister ask him to do pantecostal type baptized.
You can Baptized into water 100 x and may not baptized into Christ.
I know one baptized 2 x and not change, still drink and gambling.
Fisrt Presbyterian type of baptized, than his sister ask him to do pantecostal type baptized.
I see they are all about the water from heaven.
Which is food for our hearts.
The Lord pours it out upon us when we make the feasts of the Lord.
Just testifying how Jesus is for me.
Jesus is the bread from heaven
Paul
I will feed My flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 34:15
After searching and posting those verses, Jesus gave me a drop for doing it.
And I thought of a song about the water of the baptism, and to find it quick, searched "water" in my music collection.
About 2 dozen songs matched, nearly all of them were about the water of baptism.
The only ones that weren't, were by Muddy Waters.
I have 3 of Muddy Waters' songs in my collection.
When your waters are muddy your going to be blue.
But try it.
Find the songs with "water" in the title, and listen to what they're singing about.
Then find the songs with "rain" in the title.
Paul
Last edited:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. [SUP]16 [/SUP]He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. (Mark 16: 15, 16)
Some argue that the controversy over the canonicity of Mark 16: 9- 20 disqualifies accepting verses 15 and 16 and their message in regard to baptism. We will all agree there is controversy as to the time the passage first appeared but there is little controversy as to the truth of the message.
(1) Preach the gospel to all creation. Both the preaching of the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of Jesus Christ are well supported by other scriptures. Rev 14: 6; Heb. 4: 2; 1 Thess. 2: 9; Col 1: 23; 2 Cor. 19: 14; Rom 15: 19; Rom 1: 15, 16; Mark 14: 9; Mark 1: 14, Matt 24: 14; Matt 4: 23
(2) Very few, if any, would doubt that we must believe to be saved. Luke 8: 12; Acts 16: 31; Romans 10: 9; 1 Cor. 15: 2
(3) Making disciples by baptism was the practice of both John the Baptist and Jesus in His earthly ministry. He continues that practice with the baptism in water after His ascension. John 4: 1, 2; Matt. 28: 18
(4) In the first century, all who received the word were baptized. Acts 2: 41
Some claim that the Scriptures do not condemn those who are not baptized. I must respectfully disagree.
(1) Those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel will pay the penalty of eternal destruction. (2 Thess. 1: 8, 9) We believe the gospel when we assent to the truth that Jesus died for our sins, was buried and arose on the third day. (1 Cor. 15: 1-4) We obey the gospel when through baptism, we die with our Lord, and are buried with Him through baptism so that we might arise with him.
(2) We are freed from sin when we obey that form of teaching (death, burial and resurrection). (Rom. 6: 17, 18) Those who do not obey the truth will receive wrath and indignation. (Rom 2: 6-10)
(3) Those who die with the Lord through baptism are freed from their sins. (Rom. 6; 3-8) Those who are not baptized remain in their sins and will be rewarded accordingly. (John 8: 24)
God bless.
Some argue that the controversy over the canonicity of Mark 16: 9- 20 disqualifies accepting verses 15 and 16 and their message in regard to baptism. We will all agree there is controversy as to the time the passage first appeared but there is little controversy as to the truth of the message.
(1) Preach the gospel to all creation. Both the preaching of the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of Jesus Christ are well supported by other scriptures. Rev 14: 6; Heb. 4: 2; 1 Thess. 2: 9; Col 1: 23; 2 Cor. 19: 14; Rom 15: 19; Rom 1: 15, 16; Mark 14: 9; Mark 1: 14, Matt 24: 14; Matt 4: 23
(2) Very few, if any, would doubt that we must believe to be saved. Luke 8: 12; Acts 16: 31; Romans 10: 9; 1 Cor. 15: 2
(3) Making disciples by baptism was the practice of both John the Baptist and Jesus in His earthly ministry. He continues that practice with the baptism in water after His ascension. John 4: 1, 2; Matt. 28: 18
(4) In the first century, all who received the word were baptized. Acts 2: 41
Some claim that the Scriptures do not condemn those who are not baptized. I must respectfully disagree.
(1) Those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel will pay the penalty of eternal destruction. (2 Thess. 1: 8, 9) We believe the gospel when we assent to the truth that Jesus died for our sins, was buried and arose on the third day. (1 Cor. 15: 1-4) We obey the gospel when through baptism, we die with our Lord, and are buried with Him through baptism so that we might arise with him.
(2) We are freed from sin when we obey that form of teaching (death, burial and resurrection). (Rom. 6: 17, 18) Those who do not obey the truth will receive wrath and indignation. (Rom 2: 6-10)
(3) Those who die with the Lord through baptism are freed from their sins. (Rom. 6; 3-8) Those who are not baptized remain in their sins and will be rewarded accordingly. (John 8: 24)
God bless.
Is it clear that Bible that salvation is by faith alone? The Scriptures teach that salvation is by grace through faith but there is none, to my knowledge, that state salvation or justification is by faith alone. James 2: 24 states that we are NOT justified by faith alone. We are all saved by grace through faith that works through love. (Gal. 5: 6) Abraham faith included works of faith. (Heb. 11: 8, 9 and 17) Abraham’s faith worked with his works of faith to perfect or complete his faith. (James 2: 22) We are saved by a perfected faith, a faith that works through love.
God has not always required the same works of faith. We are not required to offer a son as a burnt sacrifice, Abraham was. In Matthew 28: 18-20 Jesus required that all people living since that time be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Spirit. While on this earth Jesus had the authority to forgive sins. Cornelius was saved when he was baptized with the Holy Spirit and with water in the name of Christ. There is one baptism with two elements, water and Spirit. When we come forth from that baptismal experience we are born of water and the Spirit.
Baptism is associated with many things but primarily when we are baptized we are baptized into His death. If we die with Him we believe we are freed from our sins and that we shall live with Him. All spiritual blessings are in Christ. We must be in Christ to receive those blessings. John 5: 24 tells us that we pass from death to life when we believe. 1 John 3: 14 tells us that those who love have passed from death to life. He who does not love abides in death. When we first believe we are given the right to become children of God and we are begotten by God. (John 1: 12, 13) This right is realized when by faith we are baptized into Christ and are clothed with Christ. (Gal. 3: 26, 27) Baptism saves us in that when we obey our Lord we are sprinkled with the blood of Christ. (1 Peter 1: 1, 2) As our bodies are washed with pure water our hearts are sprinkled clean from an evil conscience. (Heb. 10: 22)
The scriptures do say that if we don’t obey the gospel we await eternal destruction. (2 Thess. 1: 8, 9)
God is righteous and just, he will deal with all hypothetical scenarios in a just way.
All the promises and blessings of salvation are in Christ. (Eph. 1: 3) We are baptized into Christ. (Rom. 6: 3; Gal. 3: 27, 27; 1 Cor. 12: 13)
When Jesus finished His work upon the cross, it still needed to be appropriated by man in some. Those that believed asked, “Brethren, what shall we do?” They were told, “Repent and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and your children, and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God shall call to Himself.”
Ephesians 1: 7 is slightly misquoted. Redemption is in Him.
God bless.
God has not always required the same works of faith. We are not required to offer a son as a burnt sacrifice, Abraham was. In Matthew 28: 18-20 Jesus required that all people living since that time be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Spirit. While on this earth Jesus had the authority to forgive sins. Cornelius was saved when he was baptized with the Holy Spirit and with water in the name of Christ. There is one baptism with two elements, water and Spirit. When we come forth from that baptismal experience we are born of water and the Spirit.
Baptism is associated with many things but primarily when we are baptized we are baptized into His death. If we die with Him we believe we are freed from our sins and that we shall live with Him. All spiritual blessings are in Christ. We must be in Christ to receive those blessings. John 5: 24 tells us that we pass from death to life when we believe. 1 John 3: 14 tells us that those who love have passed from death to life. He who does not love abides in death. When we first believe we are given the right to become children of God and we are begotten by God. (John 1: 12, 13) This right is realized when by faith we are baptized into Christ and are clothed with Christ. (Gal. 3: 26, 27) Baptism saves us in that when we obey our Lord we are sprinkled with the blood of Christ. (1 Peter 1: 1, 2) As our bodies are washed with pure water our hearts are sprinkled clean from an evil conscience. (Heb. 10: 22)
The scriptures do say that if we don’t obey the gospel we await eternal destruction. (2 Thess. 1: 8, 9)
God is righteous and just, he will deal with all hypothetical scenarios in a just way.
All the promises and blessings of salvation are in Christ. (Eph. 1: 3) We are baptized into Christ. (Rom. 6: 3; Gal. 3: 27, 27; 1 Cor. 12: 13)
When Jesus finished His work upon the cross, it still needed to be appropriated by man in some. Those that believed asked, “Brethren, what shall we do?” They were told, “Repent and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and your children, and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God shall call to Himself.”
Ephesians 1: 7 is slightly misquoted. Redemption is in Him.
God bless.
Hi plain talk.
The scripture does not condemn them because they do not have the scriptures.
And that's why they perish.
We do have the scripture, and in them God tells of all our sins,
so we are condemned by the scripture.
And if we do not keep them all faithfully like God says to in there,
then we be worse off than the Atheists who do not have the scriptures.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness,
than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2 Peter 2:21
And even though God perish the unfaithful among us,
even so, Bless Him
Paul
The scripture does not condemn them because they do not have the scriptures.
And that's why they perish.
We do have the scripture, and in them God tells of all our sins,
so we are condemned by the scripture.
And if we do not keep them all faithfully like God says to in there,
then we be worse off than the Atheists who do not have the scriptures.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness,
than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2 Peter 2:21
And even though God perish the unfaithful among us,
even so, Bless Him
Paul
Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that hears My word, and believes on Him that sent Me,
hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation;
but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:24
He that hears My word, and believes on Him that sent Me,
hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation;
but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:24
Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called,[SUP]2 [/SUP]with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love,[SUP]3 [/SUP]being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [SUP]4 [/SUP]There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; [SUP]5 [/SUP]one Lord, one faith, one baptism, [SUP]6 [/SUP]one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. (Eph. 4: 1-6)
A lot of folks seem to have no compunction about dismissing, diminishing or even denigrating baptism; they say “it’s just a rite and we are not saved by rites” or “it’s just a demonstration of faith” or “it’s only obedience for the sake of obedience, not to be saved.” The Holy Spirit has a little different take, it is listed as one of the seven “Ones,” and it has to do with the unity of the Spirit in the body of Christ.
But what is the “One baptism”? Here again many are willing to accept the “one baptism” as the baptism with the Holy Spirit and dismiss baptism in water in the name of Christ as the lesser of the two. But can we just cavalierly dismiss it? It was authorized by Jesus our Lord Himself. It is for all nations. It is associated with the promise of the gift of the Holy Spirit that was to everyone, as many as God shall call to Himself.
In my opinion the answer to the dilemma is found in John 3: 5. In order to enter the kingdom, we must be born of water and Spirit, one birth but two elements. Is it possible that there is one baptism, but two elements, water and Spirit?
(1) Do we encounter a unity but a plurality in reference to God? Do we find a unity but a plurality in reference the husband and wife?
(2) Matthew 28: 18- 20 and 1 Corinthians 12: 13 indicate that we are baptized in both elements.
(3) Peter ordered Cornelius and his people to be baptized in water in the name of Christ even though they had just been baptized with the Spirit.
(4) In 1 Corinthians 10: 1, 2, Israel was baptized in both the cloud and the sea and the cloud was not just water vapor.
God bless.
A lot of folks seem to have no compunction about dismissing, diminishing or even denigrating baptism; they say “it’s just a rite and we are not saved by rites” or “it’s just a demonstration of faith” or “it’s only obedience for the sake of obedience, not to be saved.” The Holy Spirit has a little different take, it is listed as one of the seven “Ones,” and it has to do with the unity of the Spirit in the body of Christ.
But what is the “One baptism”? Here again many are willing to accept the “one baptism” as the baptism with the Holy Spirit and dismiss baptism in water in the name of Christ as the lesser of the two. But can we just cavalierly dismiss it? It was authorized by Jesus our Lord Himself. It is for all nations. It is associated with the promise of the gift of the Holy Spirit that was to everyone, as many as God shall call to Himself.
In my opinion the answer to the dilemma is found in John 3: 5. In order to enter the kingdom, we must be born of water and Spirit, one birth but two elements. Is it possible that there is one baptism, but two elements, water and Spirit?
(1) Do we encounter a unity but a plurality in reference to God? Do we find a unity but a plurality in reference the husband and wife?
(2) Matthew 28: 18- 20 and 1 Corinthians 12: 13 indicate that we are baptized in both elements.
(3) Peter ordered Cornelius and his people to be baptized in water in the name of Christ even though they had just been baptized with the Spirit.
(4) In 1 Corinthians 10: 1, 2, Israel was baptized in both the cloud and the sea and the cloud was not just water vapor.
God bless.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (1 Peter 3: 21)
Does 1 Peter 3: 21 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation? Well for starters, Peter says that “baptism now saves you.” Was Peter confused or are the people who deny what he says confused? In 1 Peter 1: 1,2 he says at the very beginning of this letter that those who obey (repentance and baptism?) Jesus Christ are sprinkled with the blood of Christ. He tells us it is not a physical thing, the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience. Hebrews 10: 22 tells us that as our bodies are being washed with pure water our conscience is being cleansed with the blood of Christ. Why can’t people believe that? Is it because they have an agenda? Instead they prefer to make unsupported arguments about an exceptional, one time case. Why don’t they go to Acts 2 and tell us why those people were not forgiven until their faith led them to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sin. Why don’t they go to Acts 9 and 22 were Paul seemly believed and prayed and fasted three days, yet was still in his sin when Ananias came to him.
When we are baptized we are calling upon the name of the Lord to give us a good conscience. Those who call upon the name of the Lord in baptism have their sins forgiven (Acts 22: 16) and they are saved (Acts 2: 21)
How are we united with Christ in the likeness of His resurrection? [SUP] 3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, (Rom. 6: 3-5) Is it not by faith through baptism?
How does all of this relate to faith? [SUP]22 [/SUP]You see that faith was working with his works (Abraham’s work of faith was offering up Isaac, our work of faith is repentance and baptism), and as a result of the works (of faith), faith was perfected; (James 2: 22) Our faith is not perfected or completed until it obeys in love. (Gal. 5: 6) We are saved or justified by grace through faith but not through alone. (James 2: 24) Yes, baptism has to do with the demonstration or confession of our faith before men but it has to do with so much more; it is one of the pillars of the unity of the Spirit; it has to do with the obedience of faith, discipleship, salvation, forgiveness, sonship, entrance into Christ, dying with Christ, being buried with Christ, arising with Christ, being clothed with Christ and all spiritual blessings. I cringe when people diminish baptism and can only pray that they will deny themselves so that God can bless them. God gives grace to the humble.
God bless.
Does 1 Peter 3: 21 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation? Well for starters, Peter says that “baptism now saves you.” Was Peter confused or are the people who deny what he says confused? In 1 Peter 1: 1,2 he says at the very beginning of this letter that those who obey (repentance and baptism?) Jesus Christ are sprinkled with the blood of Christ. He tells us it is not a physical thing, the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience. Hebrews 10: 22 tells us that as our bodies are being washed with pure water our conscience is being cleansed with the blood of Christ. Why can’t people believe that? Is it because they have an agenda? Instead they prefer to make unsupported arguments about an exceptional, one time case. Why don’t they go to Acts 2 and tell us why those people were not forgiven until their faith led them to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sin. Why don’t they go to Acts 9 and 22 were Paul seemly believed and prayed and fasted three days, yet was still in his sin when Ananias came to him.
When we are baptized we are calling upon the name of the Lord to give us a good conscience. Those who call upon the name of the Lord in baptism have their sins forgiven (Acts 22: 16) and they are saved (Acts 2: 21)
How are we united with Christ in the likeness of His resurrection? [SUP] 3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, (Rom. 6: 3-5) Is it not by faith through baptism?
How does all of this relate to faith? [SUP]22 [/SUP]You see that faith was working with his works (Abraham’s work of faith was offering up Isaac, our work of faith is repentance and baptism), and as a result of the works (of faith), faith was perfected; (James 2: 22) Our faith is not perfected or completed until it obeys in love. (Gal. 5: 6) We are saved or justified by grace through faith but not through alone. (James 2: 24) Yes, baptism has to do with the demonstration or confession of our faith before men but it has to do with so much more; it is one of the pillars of the unity of the Spirit; it has to do with the obedience of faith, discipleship, salvation, forgiveness, sonship, entrance into Christ, dying with Christ, being buried with Christ, arising with Christ, being clothed with Christ and all spiritual blessings. I cringe when people diminish baptism and can only pray that they will deny themselves so that God can bless them. God gives grace to the humble.
God bless.
The eis argument
Some time ago J. R. Mantey entered into a written discussion with Ralph Marcus as to whether the preposition “eis”, “for”, was translated “because of” in extra biblical Greek literature. Daniel B. Wallace, a Greek scholar and sympathetic to Mantey’s position writes, “Marcus ably demonstrated that the linguistic evidence for a causal eis . fell short of proof.” Greek Grammar, Beyond the Basics, pg 370. When your own people, who are Greek scholars are not convinced by your argument, it may be time to give it up.
In Acts 2: 37-38 it appears that the people had believed when they were pierced to the heart when they heard the message. They asked, “Brethren, what shall we do?” They were told, Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
(1) They believed when they were pierced to the heart yet their sins were NOT forgiven.
(2) We cannot be baptized unless we believe with all our heart. (Acts 8: 37, 38)
(3) Acts 22: 16 confirms that our sins are washed away when we are baptized and call on the name of the Lord.
(4) Acts. 6: 8 confirms that we are freed from sin when we die with the Lord in baptism.
(5) Acts 6: 17, 18 confirms that we are freed from sin when we obey that form of teaching, death, burial and resurrection.
(6) Ephesians 1: 3, 7 tells us that all spiritual blessings are in Christ, we are baptized into Christ.
(7) 2 Timothy 2: 10 states that salvation is in Christ, we are baptized into Christ.
(8) Colossians 1: 14 tells us that redemption, the forgiveness of sins is in Christ, we are baptized into Christ.
God bless.
Some time ago J. R. Mantey entered into a written discussion with Ralph Marcus as to whether the preposition “eis”, “for”, was translated “because of” in extra biblical Greek literature. Daniel B. Wallace, a Greek scholar and sympathetic to Mantey’s position writes, “Marcus ably demonstrated that the linguistic evidence for a causal eis . fell short of proof.” Greek Grammar, Beyond the Basics, pg 370. When your own people, who are Greek scholars are not convinced by your argument, it may be time to give it up.
In Acts 2: 37-38 it appears that the people had believed when they were pierced to the heart when they heard the message. They asked, “Brethren, what shall we do?” They were told, Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
(1) They believed when they were pierced to the heart yet their sins were NOT forgiven.
(2) We cannot be baptized unless we believe with all our heart. (Acts 8: 37, 38)
(3) Acts 22: 16 confirms that our sins are washed away when we are baptized and call on the name of the Lord.
(4) Acts. 6: 8 confirms that we are freed from sin when we die with the Lord in baptism.
(5) Acts 6: 17, 18 confirms that we are freed from sin when we obey that form of teaching, death, burial and resurrection.
(6) Ephesians 1: 3, 7 tells us that all spiritual blessings are in Christ, we are baptized into Christ.
(7) 2 Timothy 2: 10 states that salvation is in Christ, we are baptized into Christ.
(8) Colossians 1: 14 tells us that redemption, the forgiveness of sins is in Christ, we are baptized into Christ.
God bless.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. [SUP]16 [/SUP]He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. (Mark 16: 15)
Jesus commanded His apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. But what is the gospel of Jesus Christ? Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, [SUP]2 [/SUP]by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, [SUP]4 [/SUP]and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, (1 Cor. 15: 1-4) The gospel is the following”
(1) Jesus died for our sins according to the scriptures.
(2) He was buried.
(3) He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.
All mankind is commanded to believe the gospel (Rom. 1: 16, 17) and to obey the gospel (Rom. 10: 16; 2 Thess. 1: 8; 1 Peter 4: 17) We believe the gospel when we assent to the truth of the above three propositions, but how do we obey the gospel? We obey the gospel by dying with our Lord, when we are baptized into Christ and into His death; we are buried with our Lord through baptism so that we might arise with Him in the likeness of His resurrection. In other words, we obey the gospel when we are baptized into Christ. (Rom. 6: 3- 8)
The mystery of forgiveness of sin is likewise solved, for he who has died is freed from sin. If we have died with Christ, in baptism, we believe that we shall also live with Him. Praise God for that blessed hope.
God bless.
Jesus commanded His apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. But what is the gospel of Jesus Christ? Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, [SUP]2 [/SUP]by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, [SUP]4 [/SUP]and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, (1 Cor. 15: 1-4) The gospel is the following”
(1) Jesus died for our sins according to the scriptures.
(2) He was buried.
(3) He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.
All mankind is commanded to believe the gospel (Rom. 1: 16, 17) and to obey the gospel (Rom. 10: 16; 2 Thess. 1: 8; 1 Peter 4: 17) We believe the gospel when we assent to the truth of the above three propositions, but how do we obey the gospel? We obey the gospel by dying with our Lord, when we are baptized into Christ and into His death; we are buried with our Lord through baptism so that we might arise with Him in the likeness of His resurrection. In other words, we obey the gospel when we are baptized into Christ. (Rom. 6: 3- 8)
The mystery of forgiveness of sin is likewise solved, for he who has died is freed from sin. If we have died with Christ, in baptism, we believe that we shall also live with Him. Praise God for that blessed hope.
God bless.
He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. (Mark 16; 16, 17)
However, we can read on this forum, comments that we should not think that baptism is essential to salvation since, in their opinion, the Scriptures nowhere state that those who are not baptized, are condemned. I don’t know where this idea comes from, as these same people have no trouble believing in “salvation by faith alone”, even though the Scriptures nowhere affirms that doctrine and specifically states that justification is not by faith alone. You know the old saying, “You can lead a hose to water-------.” Only those who have ears to hear will hear.
In my opinion, the Scriptures tell us exactly what will happen to those who will not be baptized. The preceding post attempted to show that the gospel is obeyed by obedience to the Lord through baptism in His name. Please, please consider the following: [SUP]6 [/SUP]For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, [SUP]8 [/SUP]dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. [SUP]9 [/SUP]These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, [SUP]10 [/SUP]when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed. (2 Thess. 1: 6- 10)
There was no need for Jesus to tell us about those who are not baptized, those who don’t believed are condemned already, the case is closed. It is impossible to be pleasing to God without faith; the just shall live by faith. In the first century those that received the word were baptized. (Acts 2: 41) [SUP]36 [/SUP]He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3: 36)
God bless.
However, we can read on this forum, comments that we should not think that baptism is essential to salvation since, in their opinion, the Scriptures nowhere state that those who are not baptized, are condemned. I don’t know where this idea comes from, as these same people have no trouble believing in “salvation by faith alone”, even though the Scriptures nowhere affirms that doctrine and specifically states that justification is not by faith alone. You know the old saying, “You can lead a hose to water-------.” Only those who have ears to hear will hear.
In my opinion, the Scriptures tell us exactly what will happen to those who will not be baptized. The preceding post attempted to show that the gospel is obeyed by obedience to the Lord through baptism in His name. Please, please consider the following: [SUP]6 [/SUP]For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, [SUP]8 [/SUP]dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. [SUP]9 [/SUP]These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, [SUP]10 [/SUP]when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed. (2 Thess. 1: 6- 10)
There was no need for Jesus to tell us about those who are not baptized, those who don’t believed are condemned already, the case is closed. It is impossible to be pleasing to God without faith; the just shall live by faith. In the first century those that received the word were baptized. (Acts 2: 41) [SUP]36 [/SUP]He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3: 36)
God bless.
Baptism- Forgiveness
Is baptism in water in the name of Christ associated with the forgiveness of sins?
(1) It was with John the Baptist who came to prepare the way of the Lord. He preached a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins (Mark 1: 4; Luke 3: 3; Acts 13: 24) thereby teaching the people to believe on Him who came after him. (Acts 19: 4)
(2) Peter connected repentance and baptism in Acts 2: 38. He emphasized the necessity of baptism for each believer by changing from a pleural number to singular number command. You all repent (pleural number) and let each of you be baptized (singular) in name of Christ Jesus for (in order to receive) the forgiveness of your sins. This is confirmed in verse 41, which states those who received the word were baptized. If their sins were forgiven when they believed, Peter would not have commanded them to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins.
(3) Ananias told Paul to arise and be baptized and wash away his sins, calling on His name. (Acts 22: 16) His sins were washed away because when he obeyed, he was sprinkled with the blood of Christ. (1 Peter 1: 1, 2; Heb. 10: 22) By being baptized he was calling upon the name of the Lord for a good conscience. (1 Peter 3: 21)
(4) When we are baptized into Christ, we are baptized into His death and the old self is crucified with Him and we are freed from sin. (Rom 6: 3-8)
(5) When we obey that form of teaching, death burial and resurrection, taught in the citation above, we are freed from sin (Rom. 6: 17, 18) The connection between baptism and freedom from sin is repeated.
(6) All spiritual blessings, including the forgiveness of sin, are realized in Christ; we are baptized into Christ. (Eph. 1; 3, 7; Col. 1: 14)
(7) The church is cleansed by the washing with water (baptism) as directed in the word. (Eph. 5: 26)
(8) Baptism now saves us. (1 Peter 3: 21)
(9) Salvation is by believing the gospel and obeying the gospel in baptism. (Mark 16: 15, 16)
(10) Salvation is by the washing that occurs in regeneration. (Titus 3: 5)
IMO the proof of the effectiveness of faith is obedience from a loving heart. (Gen. 22: 12, 18; James 2: 20- 24) God bless.
Is baptism in water in the name of Christ associated with the forgiveness of sins?
(1) It was with John the Baptist who came to prepare the way of the Lord. He preached a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins (Mark 1: 4; Luke 3: 3; Acts 13: 24) thereby teaching the people to believe on Him who came after him. (Acts 19: 4)
(2) Peter connected repentance and baptism in Acts 2: 38. He emphasized the necessity of baptism for each believer by changing from a pleural number to singular number command. You all repent (pleural number) and let each of you be baptized (singular) in name of Christ Jesus for (in order to receive) the forgiveness of your sins. This is confirmed in verse 41, which states those who received the word were baptized. If their sins were forgiven when they believed, Peter would not have commanded them to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins.
(3) Ananias told Paul to arise and be baptized and wash away his sins, calling on His name. (Acts 22: 16) His sins were washed away because when he obeyed, he was sprinkled with the blood of Christ. (1 Peter 1: 1, 2; Heb. 10: 22) By being baptized he was calling upon the name of the Lord for a good conscience. (1 Peter 3: 21)
(4) When we are baptized into Christ, we are baptized into His death and the old self is crucified with Him and we are freed from sin. (Rom 6: 3-8)
(5) When we obey that form of teaching, death burial and resurrection, taught in the citation above, we are freed from sin (Rom. 6: 17, 18) The connection between baptism and freedom from sin is repeated.
(6) All spiritual blessings, including the forgiveness of sin, are realized in Christ; we are baptized into Christ. (Eph. 1; 3, 7; Col. 1: 14)
(7) The church is cleansed by the washing with water (baptism) as directed in the word. (Eph. 5: 26)
(8) Baptism now saves us. (1 Peter 3: 21)
(9) Salvation is by believing the gospel and obeying the gospel in baptism. (Mark 16: 15, 16)
(10) Salvation is by the washing that occurs in regeneration. (Titus 3: 5)
IMO the proof of the effectiveness of faith is obedience from a loving heart. (Gen. 22: 12, 18; James 2: 20- 24) God bless.
E
If it is required.. Salvation is of works, not grace. As such, it’s cancels out grace (if it is of grace it is no longer of works otherwise grace is no longer grace) and each person will be required to live up to Gods standard to save themselves. A feat everyone has already failed to do. So all would be lost.
What would you baptise people with in if not water... soda? coffee?....
I remember many years ago I was speaking to a friend she wanted to get baptized so I turned the water on the the shower and put her in the shower, cloths and all... It was great!!! Peter sprinkled the thousands with water so I'm sure the shower works too...
She was already Saved, baptism is not for salvation... She just decided she wanted to be baptised in obedience... What a beautiful heart she has/had....
Last edited: