Is the great biblical flood real or not?
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oops... God separated the people by differences in Languages and nations....In Gen 11:9..GOD said:
"Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth."
I guess the Earth at that time did not include Africa or America. They were created later! BUT wait, Did not GOD Create the Earth in the Beginning...Was HE so Short sighted that he left out counties, Nations until it became apparent he needed them?????
WOW!
This is what you are saying!
The tower of Babel was after the flood. So I am not sure what you want to prove by that scattering.
Native Americans came probably from Asia/China quite late after the flood, thats why first civilizations flourished in Mezopotamia, Egypt, then India, China, Europe (roughly in this order, I am just typing it from memory, some encyclopedia can tell you better).
Native Americans came probably from Asia/China quite late after the flood, thats why first civilizations flourished in Mezopotamia, Egypt, then India, China, Europe (roughly in this order, I am just typing it from memory, some encyclopedia can tell you better).
Yes, why cant you just believe the Bible that Noah did not move and that it was an image of Christ.
Of course that God did not need some man to build a wooden useless ark to save animals. What a way when God can make any miracle He wishes.
But you do not realize that the OT is about Christ. You read it only on surface.
Of course that God did not need some man to build a wooden useless ark to save animals. What a way when God can make any miracle He wishes.
But you do not realize that the OT is about Christ. You read it only on surface.
Hardly local. You need to read your Bible more.
2 Peter 3:[SUP]3 [/SUP]Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,[SUP] 4 [/SUP]And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:....[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Peter understood the global flood in the scripture. It can never by a local flood. You think this fiery judgment that is coming on the earth will be a local event too?
Luke 17:[SUP]26 [/SUP]And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Jesus referred to the global flood as a warning to all believers to be ready or else face what is coming on the earth.
See what the evolution theory does? The lie of the world takes away the urgency to be abiding in Him at all times. How can you take His warning to be ready if you do not believe what it is you are escaping what's coming to earth?
2 Peter 3:[SUP]3 [/SUP]Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,[SUP] 4 [/SUP]And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:....[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Peter understood the global flood in the scripture. It can never by a local flood. You think this fiery judgment that is coming on the earth will be a local event too?
Luke 17:[SUP]26 [/SUP]And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Jesus referred to the global flood as a warning to all believers to be ready or else face what is coming on the earth.
See what the evolution theory does? The lie of the world takes away the urgency to be abiding in Him at all times. How can you take His warning to be ready if you do not believe what it is you are escaping what's coming to earth?
I do see it, and that is why I very carefully study His words—not mere translations of His words, but His words as He gave them to us. Early in this thread, I gave an example of why this is critically important to the understanding His words. Here it is again for your convenience:
What does the Bible actually say about the Genesis Flood? In Genesis 1:6-9 we read,
Gen. 1:6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen. 1:7. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Gen. 1:8. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Gen. 1:9. And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. (KJV)
In verse 6, we read that God created a firmament that divided the waters that were under the firmament from the waters that were above the firmament—but what was the firmament? Merriam Webster’s online dictionary (which in print is Merriam Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary—Eleventh Edition) give us the following definition:
: the vault or arch of the sky :heavens
The Oxford University dictionaries, of which there are several, concur. The English word ‘firmament’ is a translation of the Hebrew word, רָקִיעַ. In the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, we find an excellent article (Vol. III, pp. 568-569 [two lengthy columns of fine print per page] on the word רָקִיעַ. Of special importance is the following from the article,
The verb רָקַע, raká, means to expand by beating, whether by the hand, the foot, or any instrument. It is especially used, however, of beating out metals into thin plates (Exod. xxxix, 3, Numb. xvi, 39), and hence the substantive רַקֻּעַים “broad plates” of metal (Numb. 16:38). (The italics are theirs).
Furthermore, the Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament by Brown, Driver, and Briggs published by Oxford University gives us the following meaning of word רָקִיעַ in Gen. 1:7, “the vault of heaven, or ‘firmament,’ regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting ‘waters’ above it.” (p. 956). Moreover, John Skinner, the late Principal and Professor of Old Testament Language and Literature at Westminster College, Cambridge, in his commentary on the Hebrew text of Genesis, writes,
6-8 Second Work: The Firmament.—The second fiat calls into existence a firmament, whose function is to divide the primeval waters into an upper and lower ocean, leaving a space between as the theater of further creative developments. The “firmament” is the dome of heaven, which to the ancients was no optical illusion, but a material structure, sometimes compared to an “upper chamber” (Ps. 104:12, Am 9:6) supported by “pillars” (Jb 26:11), and resembling in its surface a “molten mirror” (Jb 37:18). Above this are the heavenly waters, from which the rain descends through “windows” or “doors” (Gn 7:11, 8:2, 2 Ki 7:2, 19) opened and shut by God at His pleasure (Ps 78:23).
For further and much more extensive proof that this word רָקִיעַ is correctly translated as “dome” rather than “expanse” as some people incorrectly claim, please see this article :
https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted...mament-wtj.htm
The KJV and many other translations use the word firmament which comes from the Latin word firmamentum. Firmamentum is the Latin word for ‘support’! And indeed, that support, the dome, would have to be immensely strong to hold up the weight of the water above it—enough water to cover even Mount Everest! (Just one gallon of water weighs approximately 8.35 lb (about 3.785 kg).
Some may ask, why do not our English translations of the Bible translate the word רָקִיעַ as dome? The answer to that question is simple—the translation ‘dome’ throws a monkey wrench into the traditional interpretation of Genesis 1-11, and readers of the Bible more often than not prefer the traditional interpretation of Genesis 1-11 over a precisely accurate interpretation. However, the translators of the New Revised Standard Version sought to appeal to readers who care much more about biblical accuracy than they do about tradition, and hence they correctly translate the word רָקִיעַ as ‘dome’. The New American Bible also translates the word רָקִיעַ as ‘dome’.
If the ‘windows’ (NRSV) or ‘floodgates’ (KJV) in the dome through which “The rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights” (Gen 7:12) were real—it necessarily follows that the dome was also real. [In Gen. 1:8, God called the dome ‘heaven’ (Heb. שָׁמַיִם), and, therefore, the windows of heaven (Heb. שָׁמַיִם) in Gen. 7:11 were windows in the dome]. Believing in the flood while denying the reality of the windows in the dome, as some do, is disbelieving the historicity of Genesis 1-11. Either both are historical—or neither are historical, and the earth was not, in 2349 B.C., a flat disk or square plate covered with a dome with floodgates in it! God is not a liar, and He never said that Genesis 1-11 is an accurate account of historical events. Indeed, Genesis 1-11 is a collection of divinely inspired stories written and woven together to teach us basic truths about ourselves and our Creator. Genesis 6-8 is one of these stories, and how sad it is that some Christians use it to castigate men and women who have devoted their lives to the study of God’s word on an academic rather than elementary level.
Have you read His words? Do you believe that God is saying that He literally created a solid dome in the midst of the waters to separate the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome?
(Hebrew is read from right to left, rather than from left to right as in English). In our English Bibles, a translation of these words are found in Genesis 1:7,
Genesis 1:7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so. (NRSV)
What does the Bible actually say about the Genesis Flood? In Genesis 1:6-9 we read,
Gen. 1:6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen. 1:7. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Gen. 1:8. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Gen. 1:9. And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. (KJV)
In verse 6, we read that God created a firmament that divided the waters that were under the firmament from the waters that were above the firmament—but what was the firmament? Merriam Webster’s online dictionary (which in print is Merriam Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary—Eleventh Edition) give us the following definition:
: the vault or arch of the sky :heavens
The Oxford University dictionaries, of which there are several, concur. The English word ‘firmament’ is a translation of the Hebrew word, רָקִיעַ. In the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, we find an excellent article (Vol. III, pp. 568-569 [two lengthy columns of fine print per page] on the word רָקִיעַ. Of special importance is the following from the article,
The verb רָקַע, raká, means to expand by beating, whether by the hand, the foot, or any instrument. It is especially used, however, of beating out metals into thin plates (Exod. xxxix, 3, Numb. xvi, 39), and hence the substantive רַקֻּעַים “broad plates” of metal (Numb. 16:38). (The italics are theirs).
Furthermore, the Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament by Brown, Driver, and Briggs published by Oxford University gives us the following meaning of word רָקִיעַ in Gen. 1:7, “the vault of heaven, or ‘firmament,’ regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting ‘waters’ above it.” (p. 956). Moreover, John Skinner, the late Principal and Professor of Old Testament Language and Literature at Westminster College, Cambridge, in his commentary on the Hebrew text of Genesis, writes,
6-8 Second Work: The Firmament.—The second fiat calls into existence a firmament, whose function is to divide the primeval waters into an upper and lower ocean, leaving a space between as the theater of further creative developments. The “firmament” is the dome of heaven, which to the ancients was no optical illusion, but a material structure, sometimes compared to an “upper chamber” (Ps. 104:12, Am 9:6) supported by “pillars” (Jb 26:11), and resembling in its surface a “molten mirror” (Jb 37:18). Above this are the heavenly waters, from which the rain descends through “windows” or “doors” (Gn 7:11, 8:2, 2 Ki 7:2, 19) opened and shut by God at His pleasure (Ps 78:23).
For further and much more extensive proof that this word רָקִיעַ is correctly translated as “dome” rather than “expanse” as some people incorrectly claim, please see this article :
https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted...mament-wtj.htm
The KJV and many other translations use the word firmament which comes from the Latin word firmamentum. Firmamentum is the Latin word for ‘support’! And indeed, that support, the dome, would have to be immensely strong to hold up the weight of the water above it—enough water to cover even Mount Everest! (Just one gallon of water weighs approximately 8.35 lb (about 3.785 kg).
Some may ask, why do not our English translations of the Bible translate the word רָקִיעַ as dome? The answer to that question is simple—the translation ‘dome’ throws a monkey wrench into the traditional interpretation of Genesis 1-11, and readers of the Bible more often than not prefer the traditional interpretation of Genesis 1-11 over a precisely accurate interpretation. However, the translators of the New Revised Standard Version sought to appeal to readers who care much more about biblical accuracy than they do about tradition, and hence they correctly translate the word רָקִיעַ as ‘dome’. The New American Bible also translates the word רָקִיעַ as ‘dome’.
If the ‘windows’ (NRSV) or ‘floodgates’ (KJV) in the dome through which “The rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights” (Gen 7:12) were real—it necessarily follows that the dome was also real. [In Gen. 1:8, God called the dome ‘heaven’ (Heb. שָׁמַיִם), and, therefore, the windows of heaven (Heb. שָׁמַיִם) in Gen. 7:11 were windows in the dome]. Believing in the flood while denying the reality of the windows in the dome, as some do, is disbelieving the historicity of Genesis 1-11. Either both are historical—or neither are historical, and the earth was not, in 2349 B.C., a flat disk or square plate covered with a dome with floodgates in it! God is not a liar, and He never said that Genesis 1-11 is an accurate account of historical events. Indeed, Genesis 1-11 is a collection of divinely inspired stories written and woven together to teach us basic truths about ourselves and our Creator. Genesis 6-8 is one of these stories, and how sad it is that some Christians use it to castigate men and women who have devoted their lives to the study of God’s word on an academic rather than elementary level.
Have you read His words? Do you believe that God is saying that He literally created a solid dome in the midst of the waters to separate the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome?
ויעשׂ אלהים את־הרקיע ויבדל בין המים אשׁר מתחת לרקיע ובין המים אשׁר מעל לרקיע ויהי־כן׃
(Hebrew is read from right to left, rather than from left to right as in English). In our English Bibles, a translation of these words are found in Genesis 1:7,
Genesis 1:7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so. (NRSV)
Stephen Jay Gould postulated Punctuated Equlibrium or "Rapid Macroevolution" because Gradual macroevolution cannot be true. There was a hug gap in the fossil record for gradual macroevolution to occur. He and other leading scientists today believes that an explosion in the fossil record had occurred back in the Pre Cambrian/Cambrian Period and that a global flood had to be the cause in order to tap that capacity. There was no clarity on how high that global flood was, but evolutionists insists that he did not mean up and over the mountains.
But the Bible does.
2 Peter 2:[SUP]5 [/SUP]And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2 Peter 3:[SUP] 5 [/SUP]For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:....
Since you seem still think it is not global..let alone, covered the mountains...
Psalm 104:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.[SUP]7 [/SUP]At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.[SUP] 9 [/SUP]Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.
Is the Psalmist testifying to his understanding of the scripture regarding Noah's flood as Peter obviously did too?
But the Bible does.
2 Peter 2:[SUP]5 [/SUP]And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2 Peter 3:[SUP] 5 [/SUP]For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:....
Since you seem still think it is not global..let alone, covered the mountains...
Psalm 104:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.[SUP]7 [/SUP]At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.[SUP] 9 [/SUP]Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.
Is the Psalmist testifying to his understanding of the scripture regarding Noah's flood as Peter obviously did too?
i think the flood of noah was real and global........ i dont care what any scientist says. my mind is closed on this subject...... what i beleive doesnt affect my daily life..
remember scientists often say something and then later it gets proven wrong...... there is a saying im not sure if i can say it here but i will modify it so its appropriate:
scientists speak with a forked tongue........ u see its a forked tongue. the original saying i can tell if someone asks me directly, hahaha
remember scientists often say something and then later it gets proven wrong...... there is a saying im not sure if i can say it here but i will modify it so its appropriate:
scientists speak with a forked tongue........ u see its a forked tongue. the original saying i can tell if someone asks me directly, hahaha
Well.....Let' s try this again.
Does the "earth" mean anything. Here are is what GOD said about the flood.
Gen 7:21-23.. "21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark."
So where did the Local Flood happen?????What part of earth did it happen on?????OH, there is NO earth, then the local flood did not happen either.....
Again , lets just throw the whole Bible out the doors, because if you cannot believe one little bitty part of it, then yoiu can believe nothing in it.?
Its still the same error. You try to put our 21st scientific view of the word "world" into 4000 years old book.
Sorry, the meaning of the words really changed in such a time.
On one hand you believe scientists that Earth is a globe, rotating around the sun with other planets, even if its quite impossible to get from the Bible and then you do not believe them when they say that the geological columns show development from simple to complex.
Its quite inconsistent. Either you should discard all the science says about our universe and believe in flat Earth with dome full of lights where there are holes for the rain to fall down or you should look for the inspiration according the truth we know about the universe.
Sorry, the meaning of the words really changed in such a time.
On one hand you believe scientists that Earth is a globe, rotating around the sun with other planets, even if its quite impossible to get from the Bible and then you do not believe them when they say that the geological columns show development from simple to complex.
Its quite inconsistent. Either you should discard all the science says about our universe and believe in flat Earth with dome full of lights where there are holes for the rain to fall down or you should look for the inspiration according the truth we know about the universe.
WHOA...you assume way too much????....... I have always said I believed GOD's WORD. That includes the Book of Genesis.......If you want to go there, ok by me........
In Gen 1:1...." In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
This is the earth I speak of when I associated it with any other Bible verses. You have to realize that the Flood that DID happen was history written by the hand of Moses given to him by GOD letter by letter.
Now some say that the people in Moses' time were far more aware of their surroundings than those before the flood. I do not believe this is the case. In chapter six, we see fallen angels and throughout the next 120 years, these fallen angels, with their infinite knowledge helped the people create beings that were abominable in GOD's eyes. We see a part of this when God tells Joshua to kill everything including animals within certain towns. Giants indicate DNA editing much like we are doing today in some of our labs.
Yes, they Knew they were sinning and really did not care..... Noah had told them many times what was going to happen but no one came. So, they all died including all the land animals. WHY????I would assume that because the fallen angels still have their powers and knowledge, they could get to just about any animal around the world and created a monster.
Personally, I think (for all those Dinosaur people) that T-Rex was a product of this time. REm until after the flood, everything was vegetarians including the dinosaurs (Behemoths whose tails were like trees) that GOD made.......
I know you are not in America but if you are,Lookup the "Ark EnCounter" in KY. It is worth the time to see. That boat is humongous. No, it is not a gimmick. It was funded by private (not state) funds, from church groups and individuals. All the groups and Individuals got was their names on plaques within the facility.
The earth I spoke of was the earth GOD spoke of. It was not separated until after the Flood and after Babel. Peleg's time was when GOD separated the earth. I will assume this is what scientist call a separation of the continents. Without further information, I cannot believe otherwise. There were people on all dry land because it was all one be mass.
If you believe what you stated above, then the Flood should be far more palatable that a flood on a round ball.
In Gen 1:1...." In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
This is the earth I speak of when I associated it with any other Bible verses. You have to realize that the Flood that DID happen was history written by the hand of Moses given to him by GOD letter by letter.
Now some say that the people in Moses' time were far more aware of their surroundings than those before the flood. I do not believe this is the case. In chapter six, we see fallen angels and throughout the next 120 years, these fallen angels, with their infinite knowledge helped the people create beings that were abominable in GOD's eyes. We see a part of this when God tells Joshua to kill everything including animals within certain towns. Giants indicate DNA editing much like we are doing today in some of our labs.
Yes, they Knew they were sinning and really did not care..... Noah had told them many times what was going to happen but no one came. So, they all died including all the land animals. WHY????I would assume that because the fallen angels still have their powers and knowledge, they could get to just about any animal around the world and created a monster.
Personally, I think (for all those Dinosaur people) that T-Rex was a product of this time. REm until after the flood, everything was vegetarians including the dinosaurs (Behemoths whose tails were like trees) that GOD made.......
I know you are not in America but if you are,Lookup the "Ark EnCounter" in KY. It is worth the time to see. That boat is humongous. No, it is not a gimmick. It was funded by private (not state) funds, from church groups and individuals. All the groups and Individuals got was their names on plaques within the facility.
The earth I spoke of was the earth GOD spoke of. It was not separated until after the Flood and after Babel. Peleg's time was when GOD separated the earth. I will assume this is what scientist call a separation of the continents. Without further information, I cannot believe otherwise. There were people on all dry land because it was all one be mass.
If you believe what you stated above, then the Flood should be far more palatable that a flood on a round ball.
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