Paul exposes false application of the law

[JaumeJ]

Jesus Christ teaches us what to obey, but one must learn it all from Him......Paul did.

 

[Hizikyah]

Paul wrote this;

Romans 7:12-14, “So that the Law truly is holy, and the command holy, and righteous, and good. Therefore, has that which is good become death to me? Let it not be! But the sin, that sin might be manifest, was working death in me through what is good, so that sin through the command might become an exceedingly great sinner. For we know that the Law is Spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin."

and this;

2 Corinthians 3:7-8, “But if the administering of death in letters, engraved on stones, was esteemed, so that the children of Yisra’yl were unable to look steadily at the face of Mosheh because of the esteem of his face, which was passing away, how much more esteemed shall the administering of the Spirit not be?”

that is why this was written about him and his writings;

2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.”

the saintes keepo the Law and the dragon hates it;

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

 

[loveme1]

Paul exposes the false application of the law?


Well The Messiah taught us the Royal Law.. James applies this application with much insight and wisdom for us to learn from.. Paul also inspired teaches us the New Covenant where the Just shall live by Faith.. so let no man teach that circumcision avails or either uncircumcision but what is important is Keeping the Commandments of GOD.. yes for a person is born again of the Holy Spirit by Grace through Faith to Love GOD and each other.. which equates to the 10 Commandments yet they are now found inwardly just as GOD stated.. He would write them in our hearts and on our mind.. the circumcised heart where one is a saint.. they Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Faith of Jesus... now that is the Power of GOD.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How about both (provided we understand what the term "Law" means in this context). A Christian is sanctified as he seeks to walk in the Spirit, and in practical terms that means as he seeks to apply the Law of Christ -- the Law of Love -- in his daily interactions with God and with men. But what is the Law of Christ, other than the Ten Commandments, which are called "the Law" in the epistle to the Romans? So it is grace that directs the Christian to apply the Law and thus be sanctified. There is no conflict whatsoever. The Bible says that the Law is spiritual, so who are we to dispute that?

The Antinomians falsely believe that the Law has no bearing on Christian behavior. That is utter nonsense, since God Himself has said that when He makes the New Covenant, He will write His laws in the hearts and minds of His people.

This is worrisome, Paul says otherwise. It is not by the law (any part of the law of moses, which includes the Ten Commandments) but by grace that we are sanctified.

The law was not given to help us be sanctified,. It was given to lead us to christ. As a schoolmaster. So how can you say the law has a bearing on christian growth? This is the opposite of what Paul said. In all his epistles.

 

[dcontroversal]

This is worrisome, Paul says otherwise. It is not by the law (any part of the law of moses, which includes the Ten Commandments) but by grace that we are sanctified.

The law was not given to help us be sanctified,. It was given to lead us to christ. As a schoolmaster. So how can you say the law has a bearing on christian growth? This is the opposite of what Paul said. In all his epistles.

AMEN.....I will say it again....that which is designed to prove guilt and shut the mouth of every man before God will never justify or make right.....it proves guilt....and the lawyers and "LAWONLYISTS" will ride that pony straight off the proverbial cliff...

the bible is clear.....and the duties of a schoolmaster were clear and MOSES who represented the LAW could not deliver into the promise land because to break one makes one guilty and condemned....MOSES led the people right to the edge of the promise land and under the law DIED before he could enter.....it took a savior<---JOSHUA to deliver into the land of promise and rest......

Plain as day.......the law cannot deliver anyone. nor does it embellish what is to be found in the Savior.....GRACE and TRUTH

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sanctification is coming to the knowledge of the truth. [1 Tim 2:4]

• Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. John 17:17
  

Faith is believing all things.
​

• 
  [*=1]Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 1 Cor 13:7
  [*=1]Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. Mark 9:23

Faith is making search and inquiry.
​

• 
  [*=1]Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; Deut 13:14
  [*=1]Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 1 Peter 1:10

Faith is trying the word.
​

• 
  [*=1]Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: 1 John 4:10
  [*=1]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.1 Thess 5:21

We are sanctified by the Word of God [See John 17:19]

• The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: [Malachi 2:6]

Thanks for the passages, I agree these are great verse. But I will add to these.

Sanctification means to be seat apart.

we are set apart from the world positionally by one act, justification, Being adopted into the body of Christ. Removed from the world.

We who have been saved are in an ongoing everyday act of God molding us to be the people God wants us to be, It is called christian growth. According to scripture in the book of acts. It takes the word (doctrine) it takes fellowship (being in the body) it takes prayer and it takes leaguing with each other (breaking of bread) these are the 4 means of growth spoken about in the early church, where they were continually and steadfastly continuing in the apostles doctrine and fellowship with the breaking of bread and prayer.

1. it is not done by getting together one day a week
2. It takes faith, and to get faith it takes being in the trenches, and being open to other believers
3. It takes a true understanding of Grace, because in spite of what some say, We do still sin, we still have struggles. And apart from Grace, we will be defeated, or we will have to hide our sin or lie about it, or deny it, which leads to fake lives, and if we do it long enough, we will not even remember we are doing it. (The danger of legalism)

thats why it is grace and knowing our position in christ (eternal life) which helps our growth. Not law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus Christ teaches us what to obey, but one must learn it all from Him......Paul did.

Paul told us how to obey, And he did not say it was by the law. He said it was by seeking after the things of the spirit.

Jesus also told us how to obey, And it was not by law. It was by Love. Love is what fulfills the law and prophets. Not a list of rules and regulations which can just condemn us.

People who think the law is good for sanctification worry me, To me, they have not been taught by the law. And are the very people paul warned about in his letter to Timothy. They attempt and desire to teach the law. But they do not understand it.

Not saying you are one of these people. Just adding to what Jesus and paul said (which you mentioned)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul wrote this;

Romans 7:12-14, “So that the Law truly is holy, and the command holy, and righteous, and good. Therefore, has that which is good become death to me? Let it not be! But the sin, that sin might be manifest, was working death in me through what is good, so that sin through the command might become an exceedingly great sinner. For we know that the Law is Spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin."

and this;

2 Corinthians 3:7-8, “But if the administering of death in letters, engraved on stones, was esteemed, so that the children of Yisra’yl were unable to look steadily at the face of Mosheh because of the esteem of his face, which was passing away, how much more esteemed shall the administering of the Spirit not be?”

that is why this was written about him and his writings;

2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.”

the saintes keepo the Law and the dragon hates it;

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

Non of these passages have bearing on what I said. Would you like to comment on Timothy or not?

How can Paul say grace is the way to sanctification and not law. And that it is the power of thanksgiving which gives us power over sin, and not law. Then contradict himself and say it is really law?

You can obey the letter, it does not make you a morally good person. You can still be an evil person (see pharisees, and see jews)

You can love others as God loved you, and you will obey the commands automatically.

That is what Jesus showed in his ministry, He loved others more than himself. In doing so, He fulfilled the law.

He did not walk around and think what Law do I need to obey today,

 

[OneFaith]

In Paul’s letter to timothy he exposes those who are taking the law out of context, and trying to add it to The Christian way of life.


1 Tim 1: 3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia—remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.



Notice, Paul wants timothy to remain in Ephesus to expose and teach men who are teaching strange doctrines, instead of furthering the Administration of God, focusing instead on Faith and love. Instead o focusing on myth on myths and genealogies, which lead to speculations, instead of truth. And who were these men?


6 For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, 7 wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.


These are men who are attempting to teach the law, however, they are only making assertions, which are not true, for they do not understand the law, even though they make confident assertions what they teach is true.

Then paul tells Timothy (and us) what the law is really about.


8 But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully,


It is only Good if it is used according to the rules and guidelines for which it was originally intended. In other words. Taking the law out of context. Using it outside of its original intended purpose, Makes the law not a good thing, But a Bad thing. According to paul, it causes division and destroys godly edification. And does not lead to truth. Which is never a good thing.


9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate,


first. Paul goes on to who was the law written for?


1. The righteous, Who are the righteous, according to Paul?


Phil 3: 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

1. It is of faith only, Not by following some law, so just because someone may be obeying the law and doing what the law says, does not mean they are righteous.


2. It is something given, not something done, or earned


3. It is made for sinners,


2 Cor 5: 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.


It is something given, based on what Christ did on the cross.


Rom 3: 21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,


1. again, not of the law


2. it is given to all who believe


3. no one is righteous by being obedient all have sinned and fall short.


4. it is freely paid for by the redeeming act of Christ.


Conclusion, the law is not for true Christians, who were given righteousness by being redeemed, it is given only for sinners

In this case it is not that what they were teaching was false, but rather unnecessary. God switched us from physical to spiritual, so it no longer mattered who had physical geneology back to Abraham. Because in Christ there are no Jew or Gentile, male or female, slave or freeman, but Christ is all (Christ’s body is the church), and Christ is in all (His blood is in every member of His church).

So it is pointless to argue about such things as the geneologies of Jews and Gentiles, or about physical circumcision- which no longer means anything since we no longer obey God’s laws physically but spiritually. God performs circumcision of the heart when we get baptized into Christ (Romans 6:3, Colossians 2), so they are just wasting their time, and other’s time on things that don’t matter, instead of on what does matter.

We are no longer under the law, of Moses (obeying God physically), but under the law of Christ (obeying God spiritually).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul exposes the false application of the law?


Well The Messiah taught us the Royal Law.. James applies this application with much insight and wisdom for us to learn from.. Paul also inspired teaches us the New Covenant where the Just shall live by Faith.. so let no man teach that circumcision avails or either uncircumcision but what is important is Keeping the Commandments of GOD.. yes for a person is born again of the Holy Spirit by Grace through Faith to Love GOD and each other.. which equates to the 10 Commandments yet they are now found inwardly just as GOD stated.. He would write them in our hearts and on our mind.. the circumcised heart where one is a saint.. they Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Faith of Jesus... now that is the Power of GOD.

so you have nothing to say about what I posted? Where is what I said, and your counterpoint to prove me wrong?

In fact.

You said paul taught how the just live by faith. I said this also.

How do you obey the commands? Just because their written in your heart? Do you go around thinking about the ten commands 24/7 and how you can obey them? If this is what y0ou do. Where is your love of others? Since you would have to be self focused 24/7 trying not to break any laws. You could never think of others.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In this case it is not that what they were teaching was false, but rather unnecessary.

Unnecessary?

1. Paul said it was another doctrine (vs 3)
2. Paul said they caused disputes rather than Godly edification (vs 4)
3. Paul said they have strayed from the truth (vs 6)
4. Paul said they did not understand what they were teaching, thus they were teaching falsely. While they thought they were teaching the correct way (vs 7)

He said what they were teaching was false. That is what false teachers do. They take a doctrine of. Truth, and change it to make it a false doctrine.

God switched us from physical to spiritual, so it no longer mattered who had physical geneology back to Abraham. Because in Christ there are no Jew or Gentile, male or female, slave or freeman, but Christ is all (Christ’s body is the church), and Christ is in all (His blood is in every member of His church).

So it is pointless to argue about such things as the geneologies of Jews and Gentiles, or about physical circumcision- which no longer means anything since we no longer obey God’s laws physically but spiritually. God performs circumcision of the heart when we get baptized into Christ (Romans 6:3, Colossians 2), so they are just wasting their time, and other’s time on things that don’t matter, instead of on what does matter.

Not sure where you get baptism, circumcision out of Timothy. Paul did not even mention these things, He spoke of law.. genealogies just happen to be part of the law or first 5 books. All of which are sheen as law.

Paul said GRACE is what empowers us, not law. Can you show me any different?

 

[JaumeJ]

It does not matter what Paul has to say if our Lord, Jesus, has taught us all we need know on the subject.

Our Lord, Jesus Christ, has also invited each one of us to learn of Him.

As for the teaching of Jesus Christ, His Gospel, the only Godpel, Paul tells us to learn it.

Paul stresses we belong to Jesus Chrst and to no other, especially to him

You write and base your instruction solely on how YOU interpret Paul. He would not like this approach.

God bless all who are in Jesus Christ, who hear Him, amen.

 

[loveme1]

so you have nothing to say about what I posted? Where is what I said, and your counterpoint to prove me wrong?

In fact.

You said paul taught how the just live by faith. I said this also.

How do you obey the commands? Just because their written in your heart? Do you go around thinking about the ten commands 24/7 and how you can obey them? If this is what y0ou do. Where is your love of others? Since you would have to be self focused 24/7 trying not to break any laws. You could never think of others.

No my dear that is why we are born again of the Holy Spirit that guides and comforts reminding us of all Truth.. to Love GOD and each other is a way of life not carrying the 10 in stone around to tick them off... The Words of the Lord.. they come to mind throughout my walk.. tell me which Commandment is broken if we keep the Royal Law? If we are Loved and forgiven we are to love and forgive.. my old self had to die.. and Christ come abide with me to Keep me.. it is to be spiritually minded which comes through Faith.. if I was to Keep the 10 by myself I would be dead in my trespasses for the flesh is at enmity with the law of GOD.. no I will live by Faith in Christ under Grace thanks to GOD.. the Victory is Christ’s who shares it with us that believe.. we can overcome through Him...

I genuinely Love my GOD because He loved me first and I will follow Him always..

 

[louis]

1 Timothy 1:4 [FONT=&quot]Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]5 Now the end of the commandment is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:[/FONT]

There are those who have faith (believe) in love. The people who believe in love will naturally not kill, steal, covet, or commit other malicious acts against their neighbors. They therefore complete the law through their belief in love.
The people who do not believe in love are naturally opposed to what is right, and therefore though they may apply themselves to not stealing, killing, coveting, etc.; those and other malicious tendencies are nevertheless what they do believe in.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It does not matter what Paul has to say if our Lord, Jesus, has taught us all we need know on the subject.

Our Lord, Jesus Christ, has also invited each one of us to learn of Him.

As for the teaching of Jesus Christ, His Gospel, the only Godpel, Paul tells us to learn it.

Paul stresses we belong to Jesus Chrst and to no other, especially to him

You write and base your instruction solely on how YOU interpret Paul. He would not like this approach.

God bless all who are in Jesus Christ, who hear Him, amen.

Jesus never said we were sanctified by obeying the law.

He said the law and prophets are fulfilled by Love, Love of others and Love of God. Period.

So I will trust Jesus, You want to try to be sanctified by following the law. Good luck with that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No my dear that is why we are born again of the Holy Spirit that guides and comforts reminding us of all Truth.. to Love GOD and each other is a way of life not carrying the 10 in stone around to tick them off... The Words of the Lord.. they come to mind throughout my walk.. tell me which Commandment is broken if we keep the Royal Law? If we are Loved and forgiven we are to love and forgive.. my old self had to die.. and Christ come abide with me to Keep me.. it is to be spiritually minded which comes through Faith.. if I was to Keep the 10 by myself I would be dead in my trespasses for the flesh is at enmity with the law of GOD.. no I will live by Faith in Christ under Grace thanks to GOD.. the Victory is Christ’s who shares it with us that believe.. we can overcome through Him...

I genuinely Love my GOD because He loved me first and I will follow Him always..

So we fulfill the law by loving others and God, and learning to trust God? It sounds like this is what your saying, am I correct?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

So we fulfill the law by loving others and God, and learning to trust God? It sounds like this is what your saying, am I correct?

i could be wrong here brother...

but to me she sounds like shes describing what living by faith looks like


not naming requirements to fulfill the law


(i dont mean to speak out of turn only read the last few posts)

 

[JaumeJ]

Where in creation have you ever seen my sugesting we are sanctified byi obeying the law?

Why are you adding to what I say?

If this is your practice with me, what is it with the Lord? With other family?

Please rectify your understandign or do not reply. You are making insinuations which could make others believe I have actually done what you are fabricating.

Jesus never said we were sanctified by obeying the law.

He said the law and prophets are fulfilled by Love, Love of others and Love of God. Period.

So I will trust Jesus, You want to try to be sanctified by following the law. Good luck with that.

 

[JaumeJ]

If we love as our Father does, of course we fulfill the law. Of course we are not yet perfected for the work in us begun by Him will not be completeed until His day......We do not work for salvation, we do the good works given us by god. The guilt of any transgression we may commit is overlooked. We do not disobey byi nature, only by our failures. Yes we must work to enter into His rest even after we know Jesus Christ......... No one is perfected to perfection while yet in the flesh. If this were so we would already be just like Jesus, and we are not yet.

So we fulfill the law by loving others and God, and learning to trust God? It sounds like this is what your saying, am I correct?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i could be wrong here brother...

but to me she sounds like shes describing what living by faith looks like


not naming requirements to fulfill the law


(i dont mean to speak out of turn only read the last few posts)

Its all good bro. That is what I saw in that post also. I am just asking her to make sure I am reading her correctly.