Schizophrenia = Possession?

[Huckleberry]

.......when the antipsychotics work, which they do, how is that casting out a demon?

Drugs=pharmakeia=witchcraft.

.......do you believe that demons cause physical illness, too?

My take on that would be that at The Fall, when God
cursed the ground, that was the beginning of viruses.
Since then they have infected every organism.
Viruses are demons that came from underground, I.e., hell.
And unlike bacteria, there are no "beneficial" viruses.

 

[Dino246]

Drugs=pharmakeia=witchcraft.

A linguistic connection between the two does not prove a causal connection between the two.

My take on that would be that at The Fall, when God
cursed the ground, that was the beginning of viruses.
Since then they have infected every organism.
Viruses are demons that came from underground, I.e., hell.
And unlike bacteria, there are no "beneficial" viruses.

Drugs and viruses are physical substances; demons are spiritual entities. If your view were correct, you could visit every hospital and "cast out" the demons of influenza, HIV, Zika etc. Go for it, and let us know how it works for you.

 

[Speak2Me]

It is true that doctors of mental disorders don't believe in demon possession. Totally ignore/refuse it.
IMO when these doctors encounter a demon possessed person, they misdiagnose them as severe schizophrenic.
This is how some believe all schizophrenics are demon possessed, because of a personal encounter with one who was.
Doctors mix them in because they don't have the spiritual insight to classify them properly.

 

[Huckleberry]

Drugs and viruses are physical substances; demons are spiritual entities.

So physical manifestations of demons don't exist?

 

[garee]

At the end of the day only God can see into the heart.

It would seem you are on the right track having the right source; Christ’s faith , as written in the book of prophecy, also called the book of the law (no theories).

It is needed to begin the journey of seeking His approval by what I call His loving commandment. It is how we can hear God as His interpretation to us.Its not just a good suggestion

2Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

We as a fallen race, as Christians we are delivered from darkness by the light of His word. We understand we are not what we will be. In the end of the matter all die not receiving the so goal of our faith our new incorruptible bodies. ..We live by a living hope which will not disappoint us in respect to Christ’s finished work of faith according to his three day labor of love. Giving us a unseen hope for tomorrow.

Hopefully even in this life we can change this or that, no guarantees.. No one knows what tomorrow will bring.

I think God who is not served by human hands has designed it that way so that perhaps in our tribulation we would reach out to Him not seen. His way as a perfect law opposes the philosophies of this world like in Acts 17:6 ,( turning the world upside down) as a result of the gospel . Chapter 17 I believe gives us some interesting insight. That can help us understand the working of Schizophrenia from a biblical view point.

For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.For as much then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Act 17:23-30

Demons are simply lying spirits as fallen angel. When we try and put a face on them we are doing their bidding just as if we try to make God, the Spirit of truth, a man as us.

They as lying spirits accuse the brethren night and day before God.

Psalms 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

A man must be born again.

Sometime defining words as to their original can help find truth or take way a previously considered moral application. When the government changes a law to make it easier for men to deny Christ fools rush in where the wisdom of God would never tread. .

Today some words can mean whatsoever a person deems them to mean. Like the word marriage or male and female or even the word truth Today. With many truth would simply mean if it feels good do it.

Someone once said : it’s what people do not learn about history... people don’t change. At the rise and fall of every nation , or a family, it usually has to do with morals.

Today it would seem like we are in the days of Noah called free will according to the will of man coming from the imagination of ones own heart. .

Makes me wonder or ponder when he comes will he find faith according to Luke 18:8 or a worn out religious book that cannot perform the promises within such as quickening ones soul giving us the understanding of one not seen .

Gen 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Alienist is an archaic term for a psychiatrist or psychologist . It at one time meant alienated from God.
Psychology comes from the Greek word psyche meaning "breath, spirit, soul", it’s the study of thing not seen. Something Christians call theology. In that way God is the doctor of souls.

Schizophrenia comes from the Greek it literally means to split the mind between reality and fantasy an operation of the imagination of heart of natural man .As soon as they are born they go forth telling lies.

I think it one of those areas that involve the spirit world not seen and the world we see, and how they affect each other. Like the word bi polar(mood shifts). Many people are moody but do we call them bi polar ? Who does not get moody? And what kind of mood? Do they need help or can we help.

Sometime people are quick to label to serve their own purposes and put a bandage drug on something that might not require it. It’s a gray area .It can benefit like a medicine but is not the cure.

Since we do not wrestle against flesh and blood.. demons are simply lying spirits. Dysfunctional families can breed lying spirits and people become accustomed. Like a soft mattress easy to get in hard to get out.

Ultimately God has designed the standard. We do need people trained but how to go about finding.?

How that works out between the physical and the spiritual is a mystery that will not be solved in this life . The life of the flesh is in the blood but that life is spirit life.

If a person can find something to help them see better it does not necessary mean they have no faith. It’s like when prescription glasses were first coming out many accused other of not having enough faith by trusting God will heal them . That would be like drinking poison of a serpent to prove you do have a relationship with God.

There are verses that seem to work between that seen and that not seen using the bone and flesh to symbolize the work of a spirit. Whether it’s the Spirit of God or the lying spirits that I would call demons.

Flesh and bones are used .Just as they are used to symbolize the one created spirit in two bodies to symbolize Christ our husband and us His bride. Woman was not created from the bone. Bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh. One in spirit, not one in flesh and bone . You could say like the Son of God and the term Father. Jesus said the father and I are one.

Unlike other beast of the field he made them separately one spirit for each body. .

Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Marrow in the center of the bone is the blood factory it can determine how we feel . Because we do live in an earthen body of death things like Alzheimer’s can be expected , like gray hair, as the bones dry up things can change.

We can see the use of marrow the blood factory and how it relates to that seen flesh and blood in few parables below when veiwd according to 2 Corinthians 4:18 ..Looking at the things seen the temporal can help us to see the unseen eternal

Note... (Purple in parenthesis) ....my personal comment.

Proverbs 17:22 A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit (not seen ) drieth the bones.(as that seen, a mystery)

Laughter is not a cure just a form of amusement (not think)

Proverbs 25:15 By long forbearing is a prince persuaded, and a soft tongue breaketh the bone.

Patience, the first work of love can win out and break a lying spirit.

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil. It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones. Pro 3:5-7

Proverbs 12:4 A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones.

Proverbs 14:30 A sound heart is the life of the flesh: but envy the rottenness of the bones.

Proverbs 15:30 The light of the eyes rejoiceth the heart: and a good report maketh the bones fat.

Proverbs 16:24 Pleasant words are as an honeycomb, sweet to the soul, and health to the bones.

There is no exact science. While the life of the flesh is in the blood, it is not of the blood, but of the spirit. .

Study to show yourself approved to God, lean not on your own understanding.

 

[garee]

So physical manifestations of demons don't exist?

Demons have no form as lying spirits that can cause a person to walk away from God's truth.

 

[Dino246]

So physical manifestations of demons don't exist?

I neither said nor implied anything of the sort.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

You are confusing Dissociative Identity Disorder, (known formerly as Multiple Personality Disorder) with Schizophrenia. A schizophrenic is not a "split" personality, but rather prone to psychosis. Which is hearing voices, seeing things. The brain is wrongly interpreting things. Watch "A Beautiful Mind" to see a good portrayal of the disease, if not the man.

People with DID are the ones who are abused as children, and create other personalities to protect themselves. There is a lot of confusion surrounding this disorder, it has been portrayed in movies as radical differences in personality, when usually only the family is aware of the disease.

As for James 1:8, it has NOTHING to do with mental illness. Read it in context!

"If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do." James 1:5-8

Here, James instructs believers to ask God for wisdom, and believe and not doubt that he will give it. If he expects to receive wisdom, (or anything else!) he must be strong in his faith. If he wavers, believes God one minute, then not the second, he is double-minded and unstable.

So, it is part of a some teaching about prayer, and asking God for things! Nothing to do with Schizophrenia or mental illness at all.

What is the meaning of unstable? See post #31
You are doing what most do; you only see the physical and not the spiritual.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

1. Jesus says in "Luke 6:27-36 NKJV" to love your enemies and pray for them. Pray for your enemies is a constant reminder that no one is outside the bounds for God's grace and mercy.

2. The bible says our souls are wounded through sin and trauma (tragedies). A wounded soul gives the demonic the legal right for access to your soul to make war with us because you share things that are in common with that demon spirit(s).

Now, before you go off binding and rebuking strong men, you need to make sure you have the authority to do so. How do you get it? The answer is by receiving healing in your soul.

Evil spirits get their right to attack us from unhealed areas in our inner man. This includes strong men. Just look at the meaning of the word strong man from the Strong's Lexicon. "one who has strength of soul to sustain the attacks of Satan."

Wow, according to the Bible, Satan and his high ranking officers are strong men but in order for you to defeat them you must be a strong man too! Strong in soul, that is. Your inner man must be healed for you to have dominion over every strong man! Jesus backs this up with this statement in John 14:30 AMPC, I will not talk with you much more, for the prince (evil genius, ruler) of the world is coming. And he has no claim on Me. [He has nothing in common with Me; there is nothing in Me that belongs to him, and he has no power over Me.]

Did you get that? Jesus said that Satan had no power over Him because He had nothing in common with Satan. Your spirit man has nothing in common with the enemy. It's your wounded soul that does. However, when you get healed through the "Power of the Cross (Blood of Jesus)" and resurrection of Jesus (Dunamis), then your soul will be strong and you will have nothing in common with Satan and any of his strong men. Thus you will have dominion over them!

3. Ephesians 6:12 Amplified Bible (AMP)
12 For we are not wrestling with flesh and blood [contending only with physical opponents], but against the despotisms, against the powers, against [the master spirits who are] the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spirit forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) sphere.

What are despotisms? Despotisms are Demonic Kings! This is why Jesus is the King of Kings - Lord of Lords! Jesus says, "No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house." Mark 3:27 NKJV

What is a Strong Man? A Strong Man is Satan, principalities (despotisms), powers, rulers of the darkness of this age, and spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

 

[Dino246]

What is the meaning of unstable? See post #31
You are doing what most do; you only see the physical and not the spiritual.

And you are conflating the two, seeing demons behind every disease. Neither the view of which you accuse Angela nor your own view is sound.

Disease exists, independently of demons. Demons infest, independently of medical illness. There are some afflictions which combine both situations. Jesus healed their diseases AND cast out the demons; two different actions, at times. At others, the casting out resulted in the removal of the physical affliction at the same time. Completely conflating the two simply isn't valid, either biblically or medically.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

And you are conflating the two, seeing demons behind every disease. Neither the view of which you accuse Angela nor your own view is sound.

Disease exists, independently of demons. Demons infest, independently of medical illness. There are some afflictions which combine both situations. Jesus healed their diseases AND cast out the demons; two different actions, at times. At others, the casting out resulted in the removal of the physical affliction at the same time. Completely conflating the two simply isn't valid, either biblically or medically.

You continue to focus on facts and reasoning (which can't inherit the Kingdom of God). I am giving you "meat" with Faith and Truth a higher level where the Christian must operate from.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

The scripture says, "When the hedge is down the serpent will strike." The Believer must understand what oppression is. Satan can force his will upon a person causing sickness and disease if our Faith is not placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work, i.e., The Cross, i.e., The Blood of Jesus.

 

[Dino246]

You continue to focus on facts and reasoning (which can't inherit the Kingdom of God). I am giving you "meat" with Faith and Truth a higher level where the Christian must operate from.

That you consider your words "meat" only suggests to me that arrogance has infected your heart.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Drugs=pharmakeia=witchcraft.



My take on that would be that at The Fall, when God
cursed the ground, that was the beginning of viruses.
Since then they have infected every organism.
Viruses are demons that came from underground, I.e., hell.
And unlike bacteria, there are no "beneficial" viruses.

uh...

no

there is no biblical basis for demons coming out of the ground

 

[OneFaith]

If you believe the Bible is true (I think you do, based on other posts you've made), why would you think that demons no longer operate as they did in biblical times? What Scripture points you to that conclusion?

There may be cases where disease is directly caused by demonic infestation, but if disease were simply demonic, medical treatment would have no effect. Diseases, as a whole, are a consequence of the Adamic rebellion ("the Fall"). God is in the business of redeeming broken humanity; punishment is deferred until the Judgment for those who reject Jesus.

There are some insightful lectures on disease and 'germs' from a Christian creationist perspective. I'd recommend the work of Dr. Georgia Purdom (among others) - available on YouTube.

Because things were done physically in the Old Testament that are now done spiritually in the New Testament. For example, the Nephalim giants were to show us that if God’s people yoke with worldly people, that creates a big problem. Until He died, Jesus lived according to the Old law- which physically represented the new spiritual law. Demon possession was also a physical representation of a spiritual situation.

Miracles, including healing demon possession, blindness, disease, infirmities, and even death, have ceased. Because those miracles were signs of identification- to prove a prophet like Elijah really did speak words from God to mankind, to show that Jesus truly was the prophesied Messiah, and that the apostles were directly handpicked by Christ. Now that they are no longer here, we no longer need miracles to ID them. We no longer need a prophet to tell us what God says, because we now have His complete Word to us. “And when what is complete comes, what was only in part disappears. But faith, hope, and love remain.”

In order for something to remain, something else had to have been taken away. So what was taken away that they had then, but we no longer have today? Miracles. You will not see someone miraculously walk on water, raise the dead, turn five loaves of bread into thousands, instantly heal the blind, deaf, or etc. And since there is no longer someone to cast them out, and God only allowed it during ‘physical representation time’, we no longer have demon possession today.

But we still have disease- which is punishment for sin- whether that person’s sin or someone else’s. Because God gives us a taste of hell as a chance to repent while we are still on the earth, and our fate is not yet sealed for all eternity. God still sends us demons to test us and refine us. He still sends disease. But He does not still send physical representations of spiritual things- such as the Nephalim, Noah’s ark, the desert snake statue, demon possession, or prophets that can control the weather, part the sea, etc.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

So physical manifestations of demons don't exist?

I get so....irked (there's a good word) when someone does what you just did here

Dino in no way, shape or form said anything about demons lacking or not, physical manifestations

the Bible describes some of what they do

basically, this is bait you have thrown out for a reaction

 

[7seasrekeyed]

You continue to focus on facts and reasoning (which can't inherit the Kingdom of God). I am giving you "meat" with Faith and Truth a higher level where the Christian must operate from.

fact: we renew our minds by the word of God. we are SUPPOSED to use our minds...love the Lord your God with all heart, soul and MIND. teaching that the spirit somehow passes the mind, is not supported in scripture.

the facts are that reason is even used by God...come let us REASON together...though your sins are as scarlet they shall be white as snow

this 'meat' you are speaking of sounds, sorry to say, more like baloney

you need to grasp the FACT that the mind is the source of ideas, reasoning and even spiritual activity

this teaching that you throw out your mind in favor of 'spiritual' awakening or awareness, is actually new age and eastern religion teaching in its source

even if a person is operating in the spiritual gifts, they are cognizant and not tripped out in some spiritual zone as some like to say. this activity, of zoning out, leads to error and deception and possible demon engagement

 

[Dino246]

Must spread reputation around before giving to 7seasrekeyed again.

"... sounds like baloney..." bahahaha! Love it!

 

[Dino246]

Because things were done physically in the Old Testament that are now done spiritually in the New Testament. For example, the Nephalim giants were to show us that if God’s people yoke with worldly people, that creates a big problem. Until He died, Jesus lived according to the Old law- which physically represented the new spiritual law. Demon possession was also a physical representation of a spiritual situation.

Miracles, including healing demon possession, blindness, disease, infirmities, and even death, have ceased. Because those miracles were signs of identification- to prove a prophet like Elijah really did speak words from God to mankind, to show that Jesus truly was the prophesied Messiah, and that the apostles were directly handpicked by Christ. Now that they are no longer here, we no longer need miracles to ID them. We no longer need a prophet to tell us what God says, because we now have His complete Word to us. “And when what is complete comes, what was only in part disappears. But faith, hope, and love remain.”

In order for something to remain, something else had to have been taken away. So what was taken away that they had then, but we no longer have today? Miracles. You will not see someone miraculously walk on water, raise the dead, turn five loaves of bread into thousands, instantly heal the blind, deaf, or etc. And since there is no longer someone to cast them out, and God only allowed it during ‘physical representation time’, we no longer have demon possession today.

But we still have disease- which is punishment for sin- whether that person’s sin or someone else’s. Because God gives us a taste of hell as a chance to repent while we are still on the earth, and our fate is not yet sealed for all eternity. God still sends us demons to test us and refine us. He still sends disease. But He does not still send physical representations of spiritual things- such as the Nephalim, Noah’s ark, the desert snake statue, demon possession, or prophets that can control the weather, part the sea, etc.

Regarding the part in bold: please, take some time and watch (with your view on 1 Cor 13:8 suspended) Craig Keener's recent videos on miracles, or read his recent book with that title.

 

[Jackson123]

A linguistic connection between the two does not prove a causal connection between the two.



Drugs and viruses are physical substances; demons are spiritual entities. If your view were correct, you could visit every hospital and "cast out" the demons of influenza, HIV, Zika etc. Go for it, and let us know how it works for you.

if virus are demon, why non Christian doctor able to kill viruses use medicine? Can you kill demon with medicine?