Paul exposes false application of the law

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Studyman said:
Oh they claimed to be God’s people no doubt. They claimed to obey “the law of Moses”. But they did not. They had created their own path, their own image of God, their own “feasts unto the Lord”, their own righteousness as it is written.
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Of course they did not obey the law as required. No one ever did, No one can.

Can you explain why those other laws was added? Can you show your knowledge of jewish history?


You still have not given me one time where Jesus said the Pharisees were rejected because they were trying to obey God. Or that the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by obeying God.

That’s because it isn’t in the Bible EG. It is just one of the many man made doctrines and traditions we were told to “take heed” of.
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I never said they were rejected because they tried to earn salvation, They were rejected because they rejected christ.

Should I listen to Mainstream teaching and by extension you? Or should I listen to Jesus?


Jesus said; “Moses gave you the law, yet none of you keep the law”

EG said; “That the Pharisees morally according to the law was the most righteous people on earth”

Exactly the opposite of each other.

I’m going to stick with the Jesus of the Bible.
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Then stick with Jesus

The Pharisee were rejected because they rejected Christ, because they did not think they needed him, they were righteous on their own.

And if you want to make it to heaven you better be more righteous than they were.

Good luck with that.

I know I asked this before. Not sure if I asked you. Can you show us what Moses claimed was the way to obey the law without being cursed? Moses repeated what Moses said thus confirming it was true.

What level of obedience is required.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
.

I know I asked this before. Not sure if I asked you. Can you show us what Moses claimed was the way to obey the law without being cursed? Moses repeated what Moses said thus confirming it was true.

What level of obedience is required.
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That should say Paul repeated what Moses said, thus confirming that it was true.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Of course they did not obey the law as required. No one ever did, No one can.

Can you explain why those other laws was added? Can you show your knowledge of jewish history?




I never said they were rejected because they tried to earn salvation, They were rejected because they rejected christ.



Then stick with Jesus

The Pharisee were rejected because they rejected Christ, because they did not think they needed him, they were righteous on their own.

And if you want to make it to heaven you better be more righteous than they were.

Good luck with that.

I know I asked this before. Not sure if I asked you. Can you show us what Moses claimed was the way to obey the law without being cursed? Moses repeated what Moses said thus confirming it was true.

What level of obedience is required.
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Now EG,

You’re changing the subject here. Your preaching that the Pharisees were “legalists” or as you preach, were trying to earn salvation by obeying God’s Laws is a false teaching. Everything built on this foundation is corrupted.

The whole “it’s impossible to obey God”, and anyone striving to obey God is a Pharisee preaching of yours is founded in large part on the lie that the Pharisees were trying to Obey God’s Laws. You have been very critical of those who would submit themselves unto God’s Righteousness as opposed to creating their own righteousness.

Jesus said He rejected the Pharisees because they “transgressed the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions.” Rejecting God’s Commandments is rejecting Christ as He wrote them before becoming a man

It is a big deal to preach that the Pharisees were trying to Obey God. That they tried to earn their way by obeying their creator. It isn’t true, so because it is a lie, we know the Holy Spirit didn’t place it in your heart.

This is the delema the Jews faced on the teachings of Christ. They believed they were Children of Abraham, but Jesus exposed with scripture that they were not. Did they repent in sackcloth and ashes? No, they defended their lies and religious traditions and doctrines to the point of silencing anyone who would expose them.

It’s one thing to be deceived into believing a lie. It’s another to know the lie and teach it anyway.

Let’s establish the truth about the Mainstream preachers of Christ’s time first. Then we can move on to discerning the preaching of modern day Mainstream preachers.
 
Studyman said:
Now EG,

You’re changing the subject here. Your preaching that the Pharisees were “legalists” or as you preach, were trying to earn salvation by obeying God’s Laws is a false teaching. Everything built on this foundation is corrupted.

The whole “it’s impossible to obey God”, and anyone striving to obey God is a Pharisee preaching of yours is founded in large part on the lie that the Pharisees were trying to Obey God’s Laws. You have been very critical of those who would submit themselves unto God’s Righteousness as opposed to creating their own righteousness.

Jesus said He rejected the Pharisees because they “transgressed the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions.” Rejecting God’s Commandments is rejecting Christ as He wrote them before becoming a man

It is a big deal to preach that the Pharisees were trying to Obey God. That they tried to earn their way by obeying their creator. It isn’t true, so because it is a lie, we know the Holy Spirit didn’t place it in your heart.

This is the delema the Jews faced on the teachings of Christ. They believed they were Children of Abraham, but Jesus exposed with scripture that they were not. Did they repent in sackcloth and ashes? No, they defended their lies and religious traditions and doctrines to the point of silencing anyone who would expose them.

It’s one thing to be deceived into believing a lie. It’s another to know the lie and teach it anyway.

Let’s establish the truth about the Mainstream preachers of Christ’s time first. Then we can move on to discerning the preaching of modern day Mainstream preachers.
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so can you answer or not?

What was the requirement of obedience of the law as stated by Moses and confirmed by paul.

You keep ignoring the question.


Is it because you really do not know? (Just say so) or is it because you know. But you also know in saying so it will reflect something you do not want to hear?
 
Studyman said:
Now EG,

You’re changing the subject here. Your preaching that the Pharisees were “legalists” or as you preach, were trying to earn salvation by obeying God’s Laws is a false teaching. Everything built on this foundation is corrupted.

The whole “it’s impossible to obey God”, and anyone striving to obey God is a Pharisee preaching of yours is founded in large part on the lie that the Pharisees were trying to Obey God’s Laws. You have been very critical of those who would submit themselves unto God’s Righteousness as opposed to creating their own righteousness.

Jesus said He rejected the Pharisees because they “transgressed the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions.” Rejecting God’s Commandments is rejecting Christ as He wrote them before becoming a man

It is a big deal to preach that the Pharisees were trying to Obey God. That they tried to earn their way by obeying their creator. It isn’t true, so because it is a lie, we know the Holy Spirit didn’t place it in your heart.

This is the delema the Jews faced on the teachings of Christ. They believed they were Children of Abraham, but Jesus exposed with scripture that they were not. Did they repent in sackcloth and ashes? No, they defended their lies and religious traditions and doctrines to the point of silencing anyone who would expose them.

It’s one thing to be deceived into believing a lie. It’s another to know the lie and teach it anyway.

Let’s establish the truth about the Mainstream preachers of Christ’s time first. Then we can move on to discerning the preaching of modern day Mainstream preachers.
Click to expand...
Matthew 23:1-2
[FONT=&quot]1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

The pharisees were trying to obey Gods Law. They sat in Moses seat and had his authority.

The Jewish people and the Pharisees are in the bible precisely to show that they failed. To show humanity that they couldn't please God by their own work at His Law.

Romans 9:31-32
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


Your whole premise is that the Pharisees were working at the law wrong. All they had to do was work at the law according to YOUR understanding and they would have been righteous before God. But that is the mistake of EVERYONE who works at the law. They think they have understanding of it.

Those who truly understand what the Law says know they can't do it in their own understanding and strength. They know they must have help from God to obey His Spiritual Law.

Isaiah 55:8-9
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

You're going to critique the understanding of the Pharisees but then make the same error as they do by bringing Gods Law down to a carnal understanding with a carnal fulfillment.

Paul was a Pharisee and he said that he followed the law perfectly in a carnal way, according to the flesh.

Philippians 3:4-6
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
 
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Grandpa said:
Matthew 23:1-2
1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

The pharisees were trying to obey Gods Law. They sat in Moses seat and had his authority.

The Jewish people and the Pharisees are in the bible precisely to show that they failed. To show humanity that they couldn't please God by their own work at His Law.

Romans 9:31-32

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


Your whole premise is that the Pharisees were working at the law wrong. All they had to do was work at the law according to YOUR understanding and they would have been righteous before God. But that is the mistake of EVERYONE who works at the law. They think they have understanding of it.

Those who truly understand what the Law says know they can't do it in their own understanding and strength. They know they must have help from God to obey His Spiritual Law.

Isaiah 55:8-9

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

You're going to critique the understanding of the Pharisees but then make the same error as they do by bringing Gods Law down to a carnal understanding with a carnal fulfillment.

Paul was a Pharisee and he said that he followed the law perfectly in a carnal way, according to the flesh.

Philippians 3:4-6

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
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Amen good post Grandpa!
 
Grandpa said:
Matthew 23:1-2
1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

The pharisees were trying to obey Gods Law. They sat in Moses seat and had his authority.

The Jewish people and the Pharisees are in the bible precisely to show that they failed. To show humanity that they couldn't please God by their own work at His Law.

Romans 9:31-32

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


Your whole premise is that the Pharisees were working at the law wrong. All they had to do was work at the law according to YOUR understanding and they would have been righteous before God. But that is the mistake of EVERYONE who works at the law. They think they have understanding of it.

Those who truly understand what the Law says know they can't do it in their own understanding and strength. They know they must have help from God to obey His Spiritual Law.

Isaiah 55:8-9

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

You're going to critique the understanding of the Pharisees but then make the same error as they do by bringing Gods Law down to a carnal understanding with a carnal fulfillment.

Paul was a Pharisee and he said that he followed the law perfectly in a carnal way, according to the flesh.

Philippians 3:4-6

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
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He wanted biblical proof. There you gave it to him

Will he hear? Or continue to not see.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
He wanted biblical proof. There you gave it to him

Will he hear? Or continue to not see.
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The workers of the law can't see. They think their understanding of the law is correct and everyone else is wrong. 2 Corinthians 3 even explains why and the solution for it.

But it is kind of interesting to see how all the legalists and judaizers twist scripture to make it fit their desire to work at the law. They all seem to do it just a little bit differently.
 
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say,and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

I like that we only get two verses from Matthew23. Verse three and four is also interesting because Jesus actually said that we should not judge each other(Matthew 7:3-5). The heavy burden was not God’s law else Jesus is contradicting Himself when He says His burden is light. We should not add to God’s word because then we bind heavy burdens on ourselves.
 
Grandpa said:
The workers of the law can't see. They think their understanding of the law is correct and everyone else is wrong. 2 Corinthians 3 even explains why and the solution for it.

But it is kind of interesting to see how all the legalists and judaizers twist scripture to make it fit their desire to work at the law. They all seem to do it just a little bit differently.
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I have seen that also. It is also interesting to note I have heard a few things in CC since I got here I never heard anyone say before, nor heard since.. Got to wonder where some people are coming up with this stuff.
 
GandalfTheWhite said:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say,and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

I like that we only get two verses from Matthew23. Verse three and four is also interesting because Jesus actually said that we should not judge each other(Matthew 7:3-5). The heavy burden was not God’s law else Jesus is contradicting Himself when He says His burden is light. We should not add to God’s word because then we bind heavy burdens on ourselves.
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I see Gods burden as light as proving he was not speaking of the law. Look how hard it is to keep the law the way God commanded, No one has dine it, That is not a light burden, that is a great burden. Paul even spoke of how Israel could not keep it and how heavy a burden it was.


Doing his will is not a burden, He empowers us by Love’
Doing the law is a heavy burden, and as Jesu ssaid, they placed that burden on others, yet they did not move on finger to do these things,.

ie they picked and chose whihc ones to follow. And followed according to their values, Which if one looks, is the same with most if not all legalistic churches. They water down the law themselves, then demand every0ohne follow it.
 
Grandpa said:
Romans 9:31-32

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
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Friend, unless you have been speaking to a Jew on CC I have not seen anybody claiming salvation in keeping the law.

Obedience does not make you legalistic.
 
GandalfTheWhite said:
Friend, unless you have been speaking to a Jew on CC I have not seen anybody claiming salvation in keeping the law.

Obedience does not make you legalistic.
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One can be legalistic and not speak of salvation by law.

I have seen many a people walk away from god because of the burden the so called church has placed on them they can not keep. I have seen many leaders fall away from God because they get caught in a hidden sin, and have been shown to be hypocrites,

LEGALISM is bad in all cases.


 
eternally-gratefull said:
I see Gods burden as light as proving he was not speaking of the law. Look how hard it is to keep the law the way God commanded, No one has dine it, That is not a light burden, that is a great burden. Paul even spoke of how Israel could not keep it and how heavy a burden it was.


Doing his will is not a burden, He empowers us by Love’
Doing the law is a heavy burden, and as Jesu ssaid, they placed that burden on others, yet they did not move on finger to do these things,.

ie they picked and chose whihc ones to follow. And followed according to their values, Which if one looks, is the same with most if not all legalistic churches. They water down the law themselves, then demand every0ohne follow it.
Click to expand...

So God's first plan failed and He had to make it easier for the rest of us weaklings to get into heaven?

Hebrews 11 is clear we have always been saved by faith my dear friend even in the OT.

God bless
 
GandalfTheWhite said:
Friend, unless you have been speaking to a Jew on CC I have not seen anybody claiming salvation in keeping the law.

Obedience does not make you legalistic.
Click to expand...
Romans 9:31-32 is not speaking of Salvation by the law.

Romans 9:31-32 is speaking of Righteousness. And those who work at the law don't have it.

Galatians 3:2-3
[FONT=&quot]2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?[/FONT]
 
GandalfTheWhite said:
So God's first plan failed and He had to make it easier for the rest of us weaklings to get into heaven?

Hebrews 11 is clear we have always been saved by faith my dear friend even in the OT.

God bless
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IT was Gods Plan to show all mankind that they could not fulfill His Law by their work.

A lot of people still aren't getting it.
 
GandalfTheWhite said:
So God's first plan failed and He had to make it easier for the rest of us weaklings to get into heaven?

Hebrews 11 is clear we have always been saved by faith my dear friend even in the OT.

God bless
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Excuse me my friend, Can you show me where I ever said any different? Where in my post did it seem you thought I said we were ever saved by anything other than grace?


 
Grandpa said:
Romans 9:31-32 is not speaking of Salvation by the law.

Romans 9:31-32 is speaking of Righteousness. And those who work at the law don't have it.

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
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Do you think it is possible that the law is now redundant and we do not have to take heed of what is written in the law Grandpa?
 
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