Is healing promised to the believers?
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You were already set in your ways and against what I was saying from the start, anyway.
You think he's a man of God? Okay, I see differently.
As for my opinion, like yours, it doesn't matter. What matters to me on this forum is, if I have and am teaching the truths of the bible or not.
As I have said in the past, I'm not here for a popularity contest or to get as many kudos as I can, neither do I care, nor am I here to cut others down, but when I see someone trying to belittle and cut an innocent person down while attempting to make themselves look superior simply because they don't agree with them, then to me they are an evil person.
It's one thing to come against me, like I said, it doesn't bother me in the least, and I took no offense to your attempt to insult me, but for some reason, it really irks me when I see an innocent person being attacked. Especially if it's a man attacking a woman. Don't like it, won't stand for it. It's the same as if someone were to attack my wife or children, I'm going to defend and protect them.
And as for what I believe, I have been one of only a few who has admitted my errors when I saw them, and then I would change what I believed, right then and there, and always apologized for it and then acknowledged my error publicly, even though I didn't want to. Can you say the same?
My doctrines are based on my understanding of scripture, not the other way around. If anyone can prove contrary to what I write with scripture, which doesn't happen often, then again, I would change, even if I don't like the person. Well, we both know you can't say the same to that one.
So your claims of me making scripture fit my doctrines or to make them say what I want them to say, is baseless. I back up just about everything I write with scripture, only for others to ignore what I write because they can't prove otherwise.
And speaking of slicing and dicing scripture, would you care to give me an example of scripture I butchered to fit my doctrine? I wouldn't be asking if I didn't know what you were saying was a falsehood.
You think he's a man of God? Okay, I see differently.
As for my opinion, like yours, it doesn't matter. What matters to me on this forum is, if I have and am teaching the truths of the bible or not.
As I have said in the past, I'm not here for a popularity contest or to get as many kudos as I can, neither do I care, nor am I here to cut others down, but when I see someone trying to belittle and cut an innocent person down while attempting to make themselves look superior simply because they don't agree with them, then to me they are an evil person.
It's one thing to come against me, like I said, it doesn't bother me in the least, and I took no offense to your attempt to insult me, but for some reason, it really irks me when I see an innocent person being attacked. Especially if it's a man attacking a woman. Don't like it, won't stand for it. It's the same as if someone were to attack my wife or children, I'm going to defend and protect them.
And as for what I believe, I have been one of only a few who has admitted my errors when I saw them, and then I would change what I believed, right then and there, and always apologized for it and then acknowledged my error publicly, even though I didn't want to. Can you say the same?
My doctrines are based on my understanding of scripture, not the other way around. If anyone can prove contrary to what I write with scripture, which doesn't happen often, then again, I would change, even if I don't like the person. Well, we both know you can't say the same to that one.
So your claims of me making scripture fit my doctrines or to make them say what I want them to say, is baseless. I back up just about everything I write with scripture, only for others to ignore what I write because they can't prove otherwise.
And speaking of slicing and dicing scripture, would you care to give me an example of scripture I butchered to fit my doctrine? I wouldn't be asking if I didn't know what you were saying was a falsehood.
That make believe world is the world of faith or as Jesus put it, the kingdom of heaven.
As for your "completely true claim", neither is that true. There's something else that simply does not occur every time.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
As Jesus said, the reality is, not everyone who calls Jesus lord will enter into the kingdom of heaven, as you say.
So you say we who believe in WOF twist scripture and you don't?
Would you care to put that to the test by simply interpreting some scripture verses?
We believe in WOF BECAUSE we don't twist or ignore scripture. And BECAUSE we don't use the natural world and testimonies of others as the bases for our belief.
We just believe what's written, as it is written, like, literally.
As for your "completely true claim", neither is that true. There's something else that simply does not occur every time.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
As Jesus said, the reality is, not everyone who calls Jesus lord will enter into the kingdom of heaven, as you say.
So you say we who believe in WOF twist scripture and you don't?
Would you care to put that to the test by simply interpreting some scripture verses?
We believe in WOF BECAUSE we don't twist or ignore scripture. And BECAUSE we don't use the natural world and testimonies of others as the bases for our belief.
We just believe what's written, as it is written, like, literally.
Perhaps I'm just not understanding what you are saying, but you know she got WOF from Romans 10:8, right?
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith [WOF], which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith [WOF], which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
I can give you a couple of the many reasons.
1. No faith when they think they have faith.
2. Refuse to take the blame or fault.
3. Refuse to repent and confess faults to God.
4. Like the seed that fell on stony ground and died, the word of God didn't take root in their heart, and when the healing didn't manifest immediately, they fell away and stopped believing. In short, they quit when they needed to persist.
5. Don't know how faith works.
6. Don't know the will of God.
7. Don't know what God will do. Knowing God can, but not knowing He will or expecting to do what they asked for..
8. Thinking and calling sickness or disease a blessing of God.
9. Don't resist or fight against condition or circumstance, but accept it as God's will.
10. Don't believe, stand, and vigorously enforce the promises of God in faith.
And I could go on.
1. No faith when they think they have faith.
2. Refuse to take the blame or fault.
3. Refuse to repent and confess faults to God.
4. Like the seed that fell on stony ground and died, the word of God didn't take root in their heart, and when the healing didn't manifest immediately, they fell away and stopped believing. In short, they quit when they needed to persist.
5. Don't know how faith works.
6. Don't know the will of God.
7. Don't know what God will do. Knowing God can, but not knowing He will or expecting to do what they asked for..
8. Thinking and calling sickness or disease a blessing of God.
9. Don't resist or fight against condition or circumstance, but accept it as God's will.
10. Don't believe, stand, and vigorously enforce the promises of God in faith.
And I could go on.
I've seen my words come to pass when I had no doubt that they would, just like it is written in Mk 11:23.
As for our words creating reality, haven't you read-
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth (or causes to manifest in the natural world) good things : and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Who does the bible say is the one causing it to manifest itself?
God says, WE are the ones causing it to manifest.
The good man causes good things to be brought forth and the evil man causes evil things to come forth.
As for our words creating reality, haven't you read-
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth (or causes to manifest in the natural world) good things : and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Who does the bible say is the one causing it to manifest itself?
God says, WE are the ones causing it to manifest.
The good man causes good things to be brought forth and the evil man causes evil things to come forth.
26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God,
and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments,
and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought
upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that heals thee.
Exodus 15:
And remember that the OT is a tutor to us of the NT.
1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority
over all devils, and to cure diseases.
2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel,
and healing every where.
Luke 9:
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith:
be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Matthew 15:28
41 Saying, What wilt thou that I shall do unto thee? And he said, Lord,
that I may receive my sight.
42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
43 And immediately he received his sight, and followed him, glorifying God:
and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise unto God.
Luke 18:
1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer,
being the ninth hour.
2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily
at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered
into the temple;
6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee:
In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up:
and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking,
and leaping, and praising God.
9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God:
Acts 3:
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils;
they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them;
they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mark 16:
Works for me.
and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments,
and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought
upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that heals thee.
Exodus 15:
And remember that the OT is a tutor to us of the NT.
1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority
over all devils, and to cure diseases.
2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel,
and healing every where.
Luke 9:
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith:
be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Matthew 15:28
41 Saying, What wilt thou that I shall do unto thee? And he said, Lord,
that I may receive my sight.
42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
43 And immediately he received his sight, and followed him, glorifying God:
and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise unto God.
Luke 18:
1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer,
being the ninth hour.
2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily
at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered
into the temple;
6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee:
In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up:
and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking,
and leaping, and praising God.
9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God:
Acts 3:
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils;
they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them;
they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mark 16:
Works for me.
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That's how a lot of healing works. That's how we learn in these mortal bodies. It took us a long time in our unsaved state to be thoroughly convinced in our old minds about how to live life here on planet earth. Now as new creations IN Christ we have a new manner of living to learn about and as we put ON Christ., we put OFF those old habits of life that taught us to fend for ourselves, take care of ourselves by pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps.
God works with us where we are and grows us up to be what we were called to be. We have the promises bought and paid for. Now we go forward and have them by grace through faith... the same way we were saved by grace through faith.
Lot's of junk is in the world but that doesn't mean that junk is for us. The world., the flesh and the devil will still come at us but we have the helmet of salvation and the shield of faith to fend off the fiery darts of the wicked one. We are supposed to "resist" but when it comes to many things coming at Christians in this life., they do not resist because they were never taught how. Some Christians live lives as if they have no helmet and no faith like Heb.11:1 speaks of. We have things the unsaved man doesn't. Why do so many Christians just put down their armor and act like they are at the mercy of the world?
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Sorry Joaniemarie, I cant find this princip in the Bible, that People are healed 10,20,30,90 %. Our do I missunderstand you? The bible says that we are get new bodys. An so long this not has taking place, we are in our fleshly body end getting sick. Everything else is far from any reality. In no letter of the NT this is taught from the Holy Spirit. How to overcome our old nature is another topic.
That's how a lot of healing works. That's how we learn in these mortal bodies. It took us a long time in our unsaved state to be thoroughly convinced in our old minds about how to live life here on planet earth. Now as new creations IN Christ we have a new manner of living to learn about and as we put ON Christ., we put OFF those old habits of life that taught us to fend for ourselves, take care of ourselves by pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps.
God works with us where we are and grows us up to be what we were called to be. We have the promises bought and paid for. Now we go forward and have them by grace through faith... the same way we were saved by grace through faith.
Lot's of junk is in the world but that doesn't mean that junk is for us. The world., the flesh and the devil will still come at us but we have the helmet of salvation and the shield of faith to fend off the fiery darts of the wicked one. We are supposed to "resist" but when it comes to many things coming at Christians in this life., they do not resist because they were never taught how. Some Christians live lives as if they have no helmet and no faith like Heb.11:1 speaks of. We have things the unsaved man doesn't. Why do so many Christians just put down their armor and act like they are at the mercy of the world?
[/QUOTE]
Sorry Joaniemarie, I cant find this princip in the Bible, that People are healed 10,20,30,90 %. Our do I missunderstand you? The bible says that we are get new bodys. An so long this not has taking place, we are in our fleshly body end getting sick. Everything else is far from any reality. In no letter of the NT this is taught from the Holy Spirit. How to overcome our old nature is another topic.
Illness befalls us as a consequence of the original sin.. It's NOTHING that WE do to ourselves. God doesn't beset us with illness just because we refuse to repent, or because we have some sort of blame..
And many here, including myself, will tell you that their illnesses have blessed them greatly.
Maybe some day after you've had cancer, or a heart attack, or become disabled in some horrific accident, you can come back here and tell us what YOU have been blessed with because of your illness.
And many here, including myself, will tell you that their illnesses have blessed them greatly.
Maybe some day after you've had cancer, or a heart attack, or become disabled in some horrific accident, you can come back here and tell us what YOU have been blessed with because of your illness. Joaniemarie you says : "There are many reasons and only God knows why some are not being healed because none of us can get inside the minds of someone else. We each have enough to do to walk our own faith out in all seriousness and single mindedness."
This means you see the responsibiltiy that someone becomes and stayes sick in the person itself. With other words: If you are sick it is your fault and you have not enough faith. Is this what you want to say?
you say: "The apostle John knew Jesus loved him. John recorded it in his books calling himself the "disciple whom Jesus loved" John practiced the love of Jesus in his life. I see how important that is and I've followed John's example. My life has not been the same. The HolySpirit taught this to me through reading the Bible and hearing about the love of God in Christ preached over and over. My old manner of living had to be de-programmed. The Holy Spirit does that as we submit."
Will you say that so more you love God so less you are sick? The measure of getting and stay sick is the love to God?
This means you see the responsibiltiy that someone becomes and stayes sick in the person itself. With other words: If you are sick it is your fault and you have not enough faith. Is this what you want to say?
you say: "The apostle John knew Jesus loved him. John recorded it in his books calling himself the "disciple whom Jesus loved" John practiced the love of Jesus in his life. I see how important that is and I've followed John's example. My life has not been the same. The HolySpirit taught this to me through reading the Bible and hearing about the love of God in Christ preached over and over. My old manner of living had to be de-programmed. The Holy Spirit does that as we submit."
Will you say that so more you love God so less you are sick? The measure of getting and stay sick is the love to God?
7
I have no clue by your assertion concerning my 'completely true claim'
get a clue...try actually reading what people write
you know, these emotional diatribes that are written sound more like a child having a tantrum and insisting on getting it's way
don't you think people would be lining up for TRUE healings? yet they don't
it's just alot of words created by name it and claim it with no substance
no...you do not believe what is written. you twist what is written and then go farther and say that we don't believe in healing when we have stated mulitple times that we do believe God does heal
however, He does not heal on command, demand or the number of times you claim it
I have found that the more someone makes a fuss about God healing, the less proof they have of what they say
I'm being neither one. If you or others proclaim that healing is there simply for the "believing" or "having faith", then it must follow that nobody in your assembly is sick, or has a disease, or has died from a disease (cancer for example).....
I'm simply wanting you to clarify or "prove" your belief that God WILL heal any illness that true believers pray about....because I disagree with that premise.
I believe that God will heal who HE wills, not who we "demand" that He heals. Really, that is all you guys are saying.... if we follow the "formula" by praying, and knowing He will heal, that God WILL heal.... A+B=C
That is not what scripture says to me...
and I have seen ZERO evidence to the contrary...
I'm simply wanting you to clarify or "prove" your belief that God WILL heal any illness that true believers pray about....because I disagree with that premise.
I believe that God will heal who HE wills, not who we "demand" that He heals. Really, that is all you guys are saying.... if we follow the "formula" by praying, and knowing He will heal, that God WILL heal.... A+B=C
That is not what scripture says to me...
and I have seen ZERO evidence to the contrary...
Thank you for sharing that SOF., Those verses are what He does in the lives of His children. Not ONLY because He says so., but we who have experienced Him this way can't help but attest to His faithfulness to do as He promises. We talk about it and post about it and praise Him for it.
He loves us so much and His love is shown. He doesn't ask us to trust Him to give us bread we need and then turn around and go against His own nature and give us a stone or a snake. He doesn't promise to catch us and then when we trust Him and lean our whole person on Him., allow us to fall on our faces like some sadistic earthy parents. He is always good and His love endures forever. We can count on Him to do what He daily instructs us to do for others.
How many times does the Bible tell us to lie to people? Does the Bible say to gain people's trust only to allow them to fall on their faces? Does the Bible say to be stingy and hold back good from others? No., the Bible tells us to be like Jesus and what did Jesus always do? Those who read about Him and know Him can answer this question.
D
There is no destiny.
Destiny is an unknown power who plays willy-nilly on the universe for unknown reasons.
There is God. There is but one God. He is known. He ain't playing willy-nilly. His purpose is clear. He will have himself a people who will love and worship him forever. AND "forever" started the day he saved us. And he predestined us to be one of his people, not because we deserve it, but because he loved us for whatever reason the God-who-created-the-universe chose to love us.
With that understanding, don't you think he'll get us where he wants us when we need to be there, with, or without our permission? And given how much he went through to prove his love, don't you think, ultimately, we'll love him for that too, even if we didn't want to go there in the first place?
There is no destiny. If God heals us, that's because he needed us to be healed for his love of us and for our purpose in him. If he doesn't, that's because we don't need to be healed for his love of us and for our purpose in him.
I'm not sure I ever want to let go. Then again, Jonah didn't want to go to Nineveh either. I trust God to work it all out whether I want to or not. I don't like not knowing what is coming. On the other hand, he gave me the ultimate plan, so he will get me where he wants be to go.
Him I know. Destiny I don't, because it doesn't exist.
Destiny is an unknown power who plays willy-nilly on the universe for unknown reasons.
There is God. There is but one God. He is known. He ain't playing willy-nilly. His purpose is clear. He will have himself a people who will love and worship him forever. AND "forever" started the day he saved us. And he predestined us to be one of his people, not because we deserve it, but because he loved us for whatever reason the God-who-created-the-universe chose to love us.
With that understanding, don't you think he'll get us where he wants us when we need to be there, with, or without our permission? And given how much he went through to prove his love, don't you think, ultimately, we'll love him for that too, even if we didn't want to go there in the first place?
There is no destiny. If God heals us, that's because he needed us to be healed for his love of us and for our purpose in him. If he doesn't, that's because we don't need to be healed for his love of us and for our purpose in him.
I'm not sure I ever want to let go. Then again, Jonah didn't want to go to Nineveh either. I trust God to work it all out whether I want to or not. I don't like not knowing what is coming. On the other hand, he gave me the ultimate plan, so he will get me where he wants be to go.
Him I know. Destiny I don't, because it doesn't exist.
Amen! Works for me too. I love those verses because they testify of the instruction we need and what we have. It is a sad thing when human beings distort the truth., for instance just the other day I heard someone say those who believe these verses (as if we are not supposed to believe these verses shhheeessshhh) temp God by drinking poison.
The Bible does not tell us to drink poison!! That is foolishness and stupidity. The verses say if anyone of us while living here on earth and dealing with evil in the world drink poison or is bitten by a snake it will not kill them. God protects us from the evil and the evil people in the world who seek to do us harm. He doesn't tell us to go out there and take the evil into ourselves.
And yet like people do with this verse and so many other verses about the promises of healing by faith., they distort the meaning and ignore the verses. I appreciate your posts Waggles that you post the verses regardless of the opposition here.
Is it any wonder unknowing Christian people reject Bible verses they have traditionally been taught to ignore because banana heads have taught them the verses mean to actually drink poison., go get poisonous snakes and make them bite you or jump off a builds expecting that God is going to save them from their own stupidity and presumption and wrong interpretation.
Each of us has the opportunity to LEARN how to properly interpret the Bible as we ALLOW THE HOLY SPIRIT to teach us and guide us in HIS instruction. But too many Christians ignore the verses rather than study them out and allow the Holy Spirit to do His job in their lives. Healing is real for today and it is a part of our inheritance in Christ. Praise the Lord for He is good and His mercy endures forever!
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1. Is it not true that when someone's time is up, they may simply die at the appointed time?
2. Is it also not true that Christians who partake of the Lord's Supper unworthily may be subject to weakness, sickness, and premature death?
3. Is it not also true that there is a "sin unto death", and the apostle tells us not to pray for that?
Divine healing is definitely something to pray about, but there is no guarantee that the one prayed for will be healed. Many faithful Christians never get healed. And all are subject to sickness, disease, and death in their mortal bodies. Paul's "thorn in the flesh" was probably a physical disability (since "flesh" here means the body) for which he prayed and was given no relief. Epaphroditus nearly died of his sickness, but was healed through prayer. Timothy was advised to drink a little wine for the sake of his presumably delicate stomach.
Some Christians claim that the spiritual gift of healing is still in place. If that were true, there should always be a miracle worker in every church, and every Christian should be healed immediately through this person (apart from prayer). But that is not the case.
2. Is it also not true that Christians who partake of the Lord's Supper unworthily may be subject to weakness, sickness, and premature death?
3. Is it not also true that there is a "sin unto death", and the apostle tells us not to pray for that?
Divine healing is definitely something to pray about, but there is no guarantee that the one prayed for will be healed. Many faithful Christians never get healed. And all are subject to sickness, disease, and death in their mortal bodies. Paul's "thorn in the flesh" was probably a physical disability (since "flesh" here means the body) for which he prayed and was given no relief. Epaphroditus nearly died of his sickness, but was healed through prayer. Timothy was advised to drink a little wine for the sake of his presumably delicate stomach.
Some Christians claim that the spiritual gift of healing is still in place. If that were true, there should always be a miracle worker in every church, and every Christian should be healed immediately through this person (apart from prayer). But that is not the case.