Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

[CS1]

It had a question mark, it was not personal to you, just a general question of a belief a person might have since tongues are for personal edification according to what has been written on this thread.

If tongues makes a person more Christ like well that would be a good thing ....I am all for all believers to be more Christ like

I still do not read a specific example of personal edification because of speaking in tongues, a similar example to me would be like going to a bible study and then sharing with another believer a specific truth I had learned at the bible study that I did not know before and therefore I was edified at that bible study.

I would hope that if I was asked this question about how I was edified at a bible study I would be able to give a specific example.

Thanks for the response

I do not believe the gift of tongues makes one more Christ -like no more than studying studying the bible. to Be Christ Like is to be obedient to His word and Love as HE loves. How does tongues edify 1. the Spirit makes intersession for us. 2. when one speaks in tongues or prays they are speaking to God. What can be more edifying then that? 1cor 14:2-4

 

[notuptome]

The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. The wisdom that is obtained through the Fear of the Lord is the wisdom to know you need a savior. Before you receive that revelation wisdom from the Holy Spirit, you cannot get other wisdom of God.

If you really think the wicked shrink in terror of a living God, you need to re-examine yourself.

What you suggest is exactly what I have described as the purpose of the bible. One receives knowledge through reading or hearing the word of God. The Holy Spirit moves in the heart to make manifest the truth of the word of God. The soul is then brought to the point of decision. Making the choice to receive Christ and be saved or reject Christ and be condemned.

John 16:7 ¶ Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Now go ahead and endeavor to intimidate me. I examine myself before Christ everyday.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

I do not believe the gift of tongues makes one more Christ -like no more than studying studying the bible. to Be Christ Like is to be obedient to His word and Love as HE loves. How does tongues edify 1. the Spirit makes intersession for us. 2. when one speaks in tongues or prays they are speaking to God. What can be more edifying then that? 1cor 14:2-4

1 Cor 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Please show me where the speaker does not know the tongue which he speaks.

Edification demands knowledge and understanding.

1 Cor 14:6 ¶ Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

Verse nine clinches the matter.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[beastslayer1970]

What you suggest is exactly what I have described as the purpose of the bible. One receives knowledge through reading or hearing the word of God. The Holy Spirit moves in the heart to make manifest the truth of the word of God. The soul is then brought to the point of decision. Making the choice to receive Christ and be saved or reject Christ and be condemned.

John 16:7 ¶ Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Now go ahead and endeavor to intimidate me. I examine myself before Christ everyday.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Stop breaking your arm off patting yourself on the back. Christ does not mend that kind of break.

 

[notuptome]

Stop breaking your arm off patting yourself on the back. Christ does not mend that kind of break.

Well somebody had an extra bitter pill today.

Let your speech be seasoned with grace.

Col 4:6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Beez]

I do not believe the gift of tongues makes one more Christ -like no more than studying studying the bible. to Be Christ Like is to be obedient to His word and Love as HE loves.

I have not found it to be so, that those who support what churches often think of as "tongues" are more "Christ like." Rather, my experience of being around such for decades shows just the opposite. Sad. Wish that was not true.

 

[CS1]

1 Cor 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Please show me where the speaker does not know the tongue which he speaks.

Edification demands knowledge and understanding.

1 Cor 14:6 ¶ Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

Verse nine clinches the matter.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

"Please show me where the speaker does not know the tongue which he speaks."

Ok just as soon as you show me the scripture that says Unknown tongues aka languages are known which he speaks.

 

[CS1]

1 Cor 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Please show me where the speaker does not know the tongue which he speaks.

Edification demands knowledge and understanding.

1 Cor 14:6 ¶ Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

Verse nine clinches the matter.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

your human reasoning blocks you from seeing edification . The gifts of the Holy Spirit all produce it collectively. That is what you seem not to see. But no matter if you do or don't 1cor chapter 12, 13 and 14 are in context to that very point. Just because you do not see it does not means it is not there. study more I guess

 

[notuptome]

"Please show me where the speaker does not know the tongue which he speaks."

Ok just as soon as you show me the scripture that says Unknown tongues aka languages are known which he speaks.

I only offer a simple reading of the text. Why would anyone assume that the speaker did not know what he was speaking? I would see that as adding complexity into the passage to support an assumed conclusion.

What is offered is that the hearers do not understand and that is where in a public setting an interpreter is required. The exhortation in verse nine is to speak in a tongue easily understood. Speaking into the air does not seem to be a profitable enterprise.

I submit that the speaker does know the tongue or language as does God. This is why the speaker is edified even if his audience is not.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

I only offer a simple reading of the text. Why would anyone assume that the speaker did not know what he was speaking? I would see that as adding complexity into the passage to support an assumed conclusion.

What is offered is that the hearers do not understand and that is where in a public setting an interpreter is required. The exhortation in verse nine is to speak in a tongue easily understood. Speaking into the air does not seem to be a profitable enterprise.

I submit that the speaker does know the tongue or language as does God. This is why the speaker is edified even if his audience is not.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I only offer what the text says and why would anyone assume that the speaker did know what he was speaking when the Bible says unknown tongue? I would see that as adding false narrative into the passage to support an assumed conclusion, founded in human reasoning and not in what 1cor chapter 12, 13 and 14 say.


what is offered is cause and effect the gift of tongues attracted 3000 to be saved. Peter Preached to what that was and they believed the gift of tongues was used . in 1cor 12, 13, and 14. Again we see that tongues is a sign not to them that believe, but to them that believe not . You can submit what ever you like that does not change what the Word of God says because you can't understand or your human intellect is unfruitful .

 

[notuptome]

I only offer what the text says and why would anyone assume that the speaker did know what he was speaking when the Bible says unknown tongue? I would see that as adding false narrative into the passage to support an assumed conclusion, founded in human reasoning and not in what 1cor chapter 12, 13 and 14 say.

Why not confine your discussion to a more manageable portion of scripture? We were in a portion of chapter 14 and now you want to shield yourself from examination of the scripture by piling on three entire chapters.

what is offered is cause and effect the gift of tongues attracted 3000 to be saved. Peter Preached to what that was and they believed the gift of tongues was used . in 1cor 12, 13, and 14. Again we see that tongues is a sign not to them that believe, but to them that believe not . You can submit what ever you like that does not change what the Word of God says because you can't understand or your human intellect is unfruitful .

You are making the efficacy of the gospel secondary to the presence of tongues. There are 20 verses in Acts 2 where Peter preaches the gospel before 3000 souls receive Christ as their Messiah. Interesting to notice that we do not know what was actually said in the first 13 verses only that it was heard in the tongues of those present.

You must think that the Holy Spirit does not open the understanding of the scriptures to those who are not Pentecostal. You continue to insinuate I rely on human reasoning.

Pr 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

Why not confine your discussion to a more manageable portion of scripture? We were in a portion of chapter 14 and now you want to shield yourself from examination of the scripture by piling on three entire chapters.

You are making the efficacy of the gospel secondary to the presence of tongues. There are 20 verses in Acts 2 where Peter preaches the gospel before 3000 souls receive Christ as their Messiah. Interesting to notice that we do not know what was actually said in the first 13 verses only that it was heard in the tongues of those present.

You must think that the Holy Spirit does not open the understanding of the scriptures to those who are not Pentecostal. You continue to insinuate I rely on human reasoning.

Pr 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter

For the cause of Christ
Roger

nouptome I have never, never made the gift of tongues secondary to the Gospel . You need to stop lying and making rude suggestions. No where have I ever said, suggested , or claimed such a foolish thing . as you have a bad habit of doing yet again you ATTACK those who do not agree with you. I would never even think of the Holy Spirit in such a way to be for only pentecostals. You are insulting, rude and have a display of unbiblical arguments which you result too when you cannot provide Biblical reproof. Human reasoning = carnal minded which cannot understand the things of God.

 

[notuptome]

I only offer what the text says and why would anyone assume that the speaker did know what he was speaking when the Bible says unknown tongue? I would see that as adding false narrative into the passage to support an assumed conclusion, founded in human reasoning and not in what 1cor chapter 12, 13 and 14 say.


what is offered is cause and effect the gift of tongues attracted 3000 to be saved. Peter Preached to what that was and they believed the gift of tongues was used . in 1cor 12, 13, and 14. Again we see that tongues is a sign not to them that believe, but to them that believe not . You can submit what ever you like that does not change what the Word of God says because you can't understand or your human intellect is unfruitful .

nouptome I have never, never made the gift of tongues secondary to the Gospel . You need to stop lying and making rude suggestions. No where have I ever said, suggested , or claimed such a foolish thing . as you have a bad habit of doing yet again you ATTACK those who do not agree with you. I would never even think of the Holy Spirit in such a way to be for only pentecostals. You are insulting, rude and have a display of unbiblical arguments which you result too when you cannot provide Biblical reproof. Human reasoning = carnal minded which cannot understand the things of God.

Perhaps it was not your intent to do so but that is how you came across in your previous post.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dino246]

Please show me where the speaker does not know the tongue which he speaks.

1 Corinthians 14:2, 14, 19. Please read my post #480.

Edification demands knowledge and understanding.

Please provide a scriptural reference to support this assertion.

 

[notuptome]

1 Corinthians 14 happened to be my daily reading yesterday. I noticed that after Paul discusses the distinction between praying with his spirit and praying with his mind (vs. 14-15), and the problem with having a 'foreign-tongue' speaker praying (vs, 16-17), he says...

18 I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all.
19 however in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue. (NASB, emphasis added)

These words "with my mind" as contrasted with "in a tongue" in both vs. 14 and 19 make it clear to me that the "tongue" is not simply a language that Paul had learned. This strongly suggests that tongues are a gift of the Spirit, not a naturally-learned language.

I would add that speaking in a naturally-learned foreign language is just as unedifying to hearers who don't understand the language as speaking in a Spirit-empowered tongue. The speaker may be edified, but the hearers aren't. In both cases, without an interpreter, it's best that the speaker keep quiet.

Pure supposition. It is equally valid that Paul was trained in Hebrew, Latin and Aramaic forming the root languages of most if not all the other languages commonly in use at the time.

1 Corinthians 14:2, 14, 19. Please read my post #480.
Verse two does not lend itself to anything other than the speaker knowing what he is speaking. Those to whom he is speaking do not know the tongue but the speaker does.

Verse 14 underlines the need for shared knowledge for the speaking to be fruitful.

Verse 19 again values known tongues above those that cannot be understood by the audience.


Please provide a scriptural reference to support this assertion.

This proves itself. If you do not understand our common language how could you understand if we had diverse languages? If you cannot understand what I am saying you cannot gain any benefit from the conversation.

This is evidenced all the time here when folks hear but do not listen to what is said. Hearing only what they want and only what supports their own position.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

1 Corinthians 14:2, 14, 19. Please read my post #480.



Please provide a scriptural reference to support this assertion.

I have typed this three times.

Verse 2 lends itself to the speaker knowing and the hearer not knowing. God knows all.

Verse 14 states without knowledge the mans understanding is unfruitful.

Verse 19 highlights the value of understanding.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[UnderGrace]

When any believer prays they are speaking to God, one does not need a private prayer language.

However, how does tongue edify? This is what I am not understanding, I just do not see anyone on this thread that has really given a concrete example.

I am sure we can are agree that to be edified is to grow in knowledge of our Lord, so how does tongues accomplish this?

I think it is a valid question and I am asking in earnest since I am trying to understand.

I do not believe the gift of tongues makes one more Christ -like no more than studying studying the bible. to Be Christ Like is to be obedient to His word and Love as HE loves. How does tongues edify 1. the Spirit makes intersession for us. 2. when one speaks in tongues or prays they are speaking to God. What can be more edifying then that? 1cor 14:2-4

 

[Dino246]

Pure supposition. It is equally valid that Paul was trained in Hebrew, Latin and Aramaic forming the root languages of most if not all the other languages commonly in use at the time.

If he spoke in any language he had learned, he would be speaking with his mind. Even if the language were unknown to his hearers, he would simply be speaking a foreign language, not a Holy Spirit-empowered language.

 

[Beez]

First, bluntly, I am not interested in arguing about the modern definition of tongues, among those who use tongues today. I simply accept what people say about this issue as their opinion.

But I am really confused, because the title says they are using "tongues" privately.

This is why the speaker is edified even if his audience is not.

So I am wondering who the "audience" is.

 

[kohelet]

First, bluntly, I am not interested in arguing about the modern definition of tongues, among those who use tongues today. I simply accept what people say about this issue as their opinion.But I am really confused, because the title says they are using "tongues" privately.So I am wondering who the "audience" is.

You're entitled to be confused, Beez. So is Rodge, whose mind has drifted by now from the topic to the church situation and says: "I only offer a simple reading of the text. Why would anyone assume that the speaker did not know what he was speaking?"

But we don't need to assume it. Paul writes that for church, the tongues speaker can ask for the gift of interpretation (14:13), so we accept what he wrote under the inspiration of the Spirit as true: the person with the gift of tongues doesn't understand the tongue or he wouldn't need the gift of interpretation.

"I submit that the speaker does know the tongue or language as does God. This is why the speaker is edified even if his audience is not," says Roger. But that makes no sense either. He needs to read chapters 12-14 through once or twice in one sitting. What Paul is writing isn't all that hard to understand - unless we're as bent on explaining tongues away as Roger seems to be. Then you can get all tied up in knots, as Roger has.

Anyway Beez, Rodge has wandered from the subject and has the church situation in mind here. If he didn't, the audience would be God, and He doesn't need edifying. Roger needs to understand that, "If I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful" (14:14).