The King James Bible

[hornetguy]

The KJV is the only translation in which words
added to the text for syntactic clarity are italicized,
which makes it inherently more honest than
your NASB, or any other English translation.

That is completely false. Two random cut/pastes from the NASB.

[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were [SUP][aj][/SUP]pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “[SUP][ak][/SUP]Brethren, [SUP][al][/SUP]what shall we do?” [SUP]38 [/SUP]Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [SUP]39 [/SUP]

[SUP]11 [/SUP]While he was clinging to Peter and John, all the people ran together to them at the so-called [SUP][d][/SUP]portico of Solomon, full of amazement. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But when Peter saw this, he replied to the people, “Men of Israel, why are you amazed at this, or why do you gaze at us, as if by our own power or piety we had made him walk? [SUP]13 [/SUP]The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His [SUP][e][/SUP]servant Jesus, the one whom you delivered and disowned in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But you disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, [SUP]15 [/SUP]but put to death the [SUP][f][/SUP]Prince of life, the one whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are witnesses. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And on the basis of faith in His name, it is [SUP][g][/SUP]the name of Jesus which has strengthened this man whom you see and know; and the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect health in the presence of you all.

well, rats.... apparently when you put something in quotes on here, it italicizes everything... . in the first quote, the words "this" and "said" are italicized.

In the second one, the words "this", "the one", "the one", "a fact", "it is", "comes".... all are italicized. Look it up for yourself on BibleGateway if you wish.

 

[IamWhoIam]

“Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:” (Romans 1:19:20)

They are found in the creation!

Indeed, look at the three leaf clover, in a field of clovers, there can be found one that stands out among the others, designed not like the rest but to have four leafs. Curious thing why is that, why would God create a plant to randomly produce 4 leaves instead of the usual 3 leaves.

 

[hornetguy]

Arguably it's not.
In fact the NASB gets it wrong out of the gate
with its use of the word "heavens" in Genesis 1:1.

How odd..... the interlinear Greek Bible that I looked up, translates the Greek word as "heavens".....

Perhaps that is the correct translation? But not if the KJV says otherwise..... that about right?

 

[Willie-T]

Good. Our currency in bills run from 1,2(very rare now), 5, 10, 20, 50, & 100. So the joke was to get real money from a fake $18 bill. I thought it was hilarious.

You forgot the $3..... That is very popular anymore.

 

[Magenta]

Indeed, look at the three leaf clover, in a field of clovers, there can be found one that stands out among the others, designed not like the rest but to have four leafs. Curious thing why is that, why would God create a plant to randomly produce 4 leaves instead of the usual 3 leaves.

Researchers from the University of Georgia have reported finding the gene that turns ordinary three-leaf clovers into the coveted four-leaf types. Masked by the three-leaf gene and strongly influenced by environmental condition, molecular markers now make it possible to detect the presence of the gene for four-leaves. (wiki)

 

[Angela53510]

Arguably it's not.

The KJV is the only translation in which words
added to the text for syntactic clarity are italicized,
which makes it inherently more honest than
your NASB, or any other English translation.

"[[53 And each one departed to his own house. ...Jesus stood up straight and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11 She replied, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you either. Go, and from now on do not sin any more.”]] NET John 7:53...8:10

"[53 So each one went to his house... 11 “No one, Lord,” she answered.“Neither do I condemn you,” said Jesus. “Go, and from now on do not sin anymore.”] HCSB John 7:53...8:11

The thing I like about modern Bibles is they clearly address manuscript issues. For example, in the above two versions, (and many others) the text is bracketed for this story of Jesus with the woman caught in adultery. It is bracketed, because NONE of the earliest manuscripts have it, nor do any of the church fathers quote it. It is spurious. It is quite simply a later addition to the text.

NIV says the following, and then italicizes the whole story.

"

[The earliest manuscripts and many other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53—8:11. A few manuscripts include these verses, wholly or in part, after John 7:36, John 21:25, Luke 21:38 or Luke 24:53.] NIV
​

I would put the italicized quotes up here, but unfortunately, the rest of the post would then be in italics. Please find it at the end of this post!

This whole concept of the KJV being so great, because it italicizes a "This" or an "is" is totally bogus! If you knew anything about Greek, you would realize that English, the receiving language, is so different than Greek, that literally every single sentence has to have these kinds of changes. I'm talking word order, deciding whether an Aorist actually is representing the past, the present or the future, since it really only points out "aspect," or that a present tense form is actually the historical present, meaning we need to translate it as past tense. These are not something modern Biblical Greek scholars have made up. Scholars have known about this centuries.

Noun cases, which English does not have, historical present, Aorist, etc, etc etc, are things that simply are NOT in English. Therefore, any translator, be it Wycliffe, KJV, RSV, NASB, NIV, NLT or NET have to make choices in every verse. KJV made a very wrong choice, in many places, to stick with Greek word order, making it difficult to actually understand. And it also can affect theology, when word order gets reversed, or the case is wrongly translated. If you want examples, just ask, and I will find them. In fact, give me any verse, and I will translate it for you, simply and basically. This is one of the big problems with websites like Blue Letter Bible. People think they are reading word for word Greek, when in fact, like Strong's, they are reading a back translation based on the KJV.

So, if the KJV says it one way, the Greek underneath, then people take it to me the manuscripts were written that way. But even the KJV can NOT follow the Greek exactly. It is just not possible. Just like anyone studying German, as I have found, has to realize that the language does not directly translate word for word.

In fact, I would imagine a German Bible would be much more accurate than any English translation, simply because German does maintain noun cases, and hence can keep the Greek word order. This is something I want to work on this semester, as I continue to study German. And this is why claims that the need to keep thee's and thou's, 2nd person singular, even though no one actually knows how to parse those verbs, is bogus, too! Because, we don't use those forms of speech in modern English. That would be like pointing to the KJV and saying because they don't keep the noun cases, it is not accurate. English doesn't have noun cases, so how on earth could they be translated? We use word order to convey what noun cases transmit. And ironically, this is a big area the KJV does fall down! It uses the wrong English word order, making it difficult to understand in English, although it was point blank obvious in Greek.

That is why the receiving language is so important in translation. There is a lot of utter ignorance by people, who quote Scripture to prove their version is "pure" when it has nothing to do with a modern, or early modern English translation. They quote "mistakes" in other versions, when yes, there are differences, because modern scholarship has shown the earlier versions to be wrong, as we now have almost 6000 extant copies of the NT, to say nothing of contemporaneous Koine Greek works, to compare and draw conclusions that were unknown in 1611.

As an advanced Greek scholar, but certainly not professional, I have access to so many tools, so much information that was unknown 400 years ago, despite the translators being, I am sure, among the top Greek scholars of their day. That's just like a Catholic saying only Jerome's 4th century Latin translation is the correct translation of the Bible. Jerome's Greek and Hebrew was extremely poor, resulting in many mistakes. Maybe he was the "best" of his day! But, simply not good enough for the exegetical tasks we have today.

Of course, arguing against this blind cultic nonsense that God somehow "inspired" the KJV rather than the original manuscripts, is pretty hard to refute. When someone is caught in a cult, they always think what they have been brainwashed to believe is the only correct truth.

I do challenge anyone who thinks the KJV is perfect, to spend a year studying Greek. Mounce has some excellent books and videos for the total beginner. You would begin to see why the KJV doesn't just add the occasional "italicized" word here and there, but literally, because of the differing structures and grammar of both Greek and English, there are MEGA changes in the KJV text. Hebrew, which is used by the KJV is a little more accurate, since the word structure of Hebrew, at times, is closer to English than Greek. But still lots of issues. In seminary, when I took Hebrew, I had to compare the text to the KJV. I often found glaring errors. And I was just a first year student. My prof agreed with my findings, who is an OT and Hebrew expert.

Not that the KJV, if someone prefers it, isn't a good translation to know Christ. All Bibles, (except, the NWT, etc) reveal Christ from start to finish, and all translations proclaim the gospel.

Oh, here is your italicized John 7:53-John 8:11. Yep, NIV shows that this entire section is a later addition.

"53 Then they all went home,
1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.” John 7:53-John 8:11

 

[James37]

Indeed, look at the three leaf clover, in a field of clovers, there can be found one that stands out among the others, designed not like the rest but to have four leafs. Curious thing why is that, why would God create a plant to randomly produce 4 leaves instead of the usual 3 leaves.

Four is special, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. There is a pattern of 4 in the Bible where there are 3 like things with one different or set apart. The gospels are the obvious with the 1st 3 being called the synoptic gospels and John standing out by itself. Kinda like Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego, and the Son of God in the fiery furnace.

 

[SovereignGrace]

From John 5...

The Healing at Bethesda
5:1 After these things there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
2 Now there is in Jerusalem by the sheep gate a pool, which is called in Hebrew Bethesda, having five porticoes. 3 In these lay a multitude of those who were sick, blind, lame, and withered, [waiting for the moving of the waters; 4 for an angel of the Lord went down at certain seasons into the pool and stirred up the water; whoever then first, after the stirring up of the water, stepped in was made well from whatever disease with which he was afflicted.]

The last part of 3 and all of 4 and 5 are not found in most mss, iirc.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Then Mark 16:8-20 is not found in many mss.

How many have been killed by handling snakes? Looks like God's word is wrong. It says they will pick up serpents and not die. Yet, many have died from snake bites. My brother-in-law(wife's brother) years ago worked with someone who was raised up in snake handling churches. About 3-4 years one got him during service and he died that night.

I wonder about the validity of that portion of Mark 16.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Ah, ok... now I see I do not get the joke

Let me clarify this so you can understand the joke.

An $18 bill is not in our currency. The guy was wanting change for a counterfeit bill. So, the clerk was going to give him either three $6 bills or two $9 bills for change, both them being counterfeit bills as well. That way he wouldn't lose $18 to the guy.

Admit it, its an hilarious joke. Even if you still don't get it, its still hilarious.

 

[IamWhoIam]

Four is special, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. There is a pattern of 4 in the Bible where there are 3 like things with one different or set apart. The gospels are the obvious with the 1st 3 being called the synoptic gospels and John standing out by itself. Kinda like Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego, and the Son of God in the fiery furnace.

And 34 I think has negative and postive meanings in the bible, you may know more on that than me,

 

[preacher4truth]

i feel like an idiot

No worries! One time my boss asked me; "Do you think I look stupid?" My answer started to proceed out of my mouth when I recalled; "The truth shall set you free."

 

[SovereignGrace]

'Serpent-Handling' West Virginia Pastor Dies From Snake Bite - ABC News

This is the guy my brother-in-law once work with in Mooresville, NC at a Burlington plant.

 

[IamWhoIam]

And 34 I think has negative and postive meanings in the bible, you may know more on that than me,

For starters this number is a heptagonal number.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Snakebite death of Middlesboro pastor was quick, son says; medical treatment refused | Lexington Herald Leader

This guy had a show once called 'Snake Salvation'.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Now line up those two deaths and the many others with...

"they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”​[Mark 16:18]

Also, 'poison' is italicized in the text.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Aren't all snake handlers KJVO?

#food4thought

 

[IamWhoIam]

• Centered tetrahedral numbers
• Centered cube numbers
• Centered octahedral numbers
• Centered dodecahedral numbers
• Centered icosahedral numbers
• Stella octangula numbers

[h=2]

[/h]

 

[IamWhoIam]

34th time Abraham's name is mentioned is when he named his son Isaac (Genesis 21:3).

 

[James37]

Something I will ponder