God's sovereignity and man's "freedom"...
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I think alot of the arguments against reformed theology stems from people wanting to be in control of their salvation. They are afraid of not being in control
Furthermore: These trust that they've chosen themselves into heaven instead of the biblical account that God Sovereignly elected those whom he would save, in other words, he chose, not man; 1 Corinthians 1:26-31. This milk of the word is rejected by those who've chosen themselves into heaven, and vast amounts of time are used to prove they did it, not God, as they also attempt to get God off the hook for his decree to elect whom he will as they see this as unfair.
That's just...wow...nevermind! Just think about all that. We have millions who really do not like God's account or true biblical revelation. They've then written their own narrative.
I don't think all Calvinists are going to heaven, let alone any other group.
If a person thinks that their mere decision gets them into heaven, as is being taught by the easy-believe-ism camp, say a prayer, decide and guaranteed heaven? I see a huge issue with that. Why? It's a false gospel.
Furthermore, it is only a gospel from A to B. It is all designed around "getting to heaven." It skips over the need for repentance, evidence of conversion, sanctification in this life and much more. It is a "get out of hell free card" and now go live your life, you're going to heaven when you die. Point A to point B. Nothing in between really matters.
Do I believe free-willers are saved? Of course, just like in any other camp. But that isn't the issue and is above my paygrade on making a definitive broad brushed conclusion. We are to instead examine the message in light of Scripture, and that message is found wanting. It is not biblical.
If a person thinks that their mere decision gets them into heaven, as is being taught by the easy-believe-ism camp, say a prayer, decide and guaranteed heaven? I see a huge issue with that. Why? It's a false gospel.
Furthermore, it is only a gospel from A to B. It is all designed around "getting to heaven." It skips over the need for repentance, evidence of conversion, sanctification in this life and much more. It is a "get out of hell free card" and now go live your life, you're going to heaven when you die. Point A to point B. Nothing in between really matters.
Do I believe free-willers are saved? Of course, just like in any other camp. But that isn't the issue and is above my paygrade on making a definitive broad brushed conclusion. We are to instead examine the message in light of Scripture, and that message is found wanting. It is not biblical.
Man is figuratively dead until he trusts in the word of truth, the gospel of salvation, in which after he believes he is sealed with the promise of holy Spirit, i.e. born again of the Spirit. (Ephesians 1:13) Being born of the Spirit is when man is quickened.
Faith [belief] comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God.
One must believe in the only begotten Son of God in order to inherit eternal life; i.e. be born again - God wouldn't ask mankind to do something that it is impossible for him to do. No one comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God's plan of salvation . . . the whole reason of being sent, dying, and being resurrected. Those who remain in unbelief: remain dead in trespasses and sins - Those who believe partake of the divine nature, the new birth, Spirit born within - made alive.
As I said - figuratively (spiritually) you are dead (no Spirit) and figuratively (spiritually) you are made alive (born again of Spirit). (
Spiritually, i.e. figuratively, metaphorically, we were dead in trespasses and sins - we were not literal corpses.) As I have repeatedly said on a number of occasions - because something is said in a figurative language does not make it any less true. God uses the word "dead" to emphasize the life of a person in trespasses and sins without God and without hope.
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You are dead - separated from God because of sin and transgressions; Strong's Concordance: 2.
metaph., A. spiritually dead, 1. destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins;
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without God and without hope; no Spirit life.
You are made alive through belief in Jesus Christ - reconciled to God; born again of the Spirit.
Just the opposite of what Ephesians 1:13 says: In whom you also trusted, AFTER that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER that you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of HIS glory.
John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
All men are Arminian until after they come to know Christ as Savior then some become Calvinists.
Jesus Christ is the Light that lighteth every man. The Word and the Spirit lighten even the darkest heart. Thanks to God for those who respond to the Light. Woe to those who turn from it preferring the darkness. John 3:19
There is no place where man can hide from the truth of Gods Light. Many endeavor to do so but they are doomed to fail.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
All men are Arminian until after they come to know Christ as Savior then some become Calvinists.
Jesus Christ is the Light that lighteth every man. The Word and the Spirit lighten even the darkest heart. Thanks to God for those who respond to the Light. Woe to those who turn from it preferring the darkness. John 3:19
There is no place where man can hide from the truth of Gods Light. Many endeavor to do so but they are doomed to fail.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
D
I have heard this several times that God's sovereignty and man's freedom are like two parallel lines that will meet in eternity. Thanks to Dr. R.C. Sproul, he has debunked this ideology.
In the above picture, you see two railroad tracks that run parallel to each other. If you look off into the distance, it does look like they meet on the horizon. However, in reality, they do not. If these two tracks meet, 1) they are not parallel to each other, and 2) the train and all the ppl on it are in grave trouble, as they will crash. So, in reality, God's sovereignty and man's "freedom" will never meet anywhere.
Man does have a "freedom", but this "freedom" is confined to his nature. Look no further than Joseph being betrayed and sold into slavery by his brothers. They wanted to kill him, but one of his brothers, I think it was Reuben, talked them out of doing that, and sold him into slavery instead. No one coerced them into doing this, as they freely and gladly ridded themselves of their younger brother. As Joseph told them later, "you did it for evil, God did it for good." So there's man's freedom and God's sovereignty in full view.
Then there's the cross of the Christ. As Peter stated "this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death."[Acts 2:23] Again, no one coerced them into having the Christ crucified. They acted in accordance with their wicked hearts, as they hated the Christ with nary a cause to do so. As the Christ plainly stated, ‘THEY HATED ME WITHOUT A CAUSE.’[John 15:25]
So, the sooner ppl realize that God's sovereignty and man's "freedom" will meet nowhere, and that both are biblically true, the sooner we can go on to debating real truths.
In the above picture, you see two railroad tracks that run parallel to each other. If you look off into the distance, it does look like they meet on the horizon. However, in reality, they do not. If these two tracks meet, 1) they are not parallel to each other, and 2) the train and all the ppl on it are in grave trouble, as they will crash. So, in reality, God's sovereignty and man's "freedom" will never meet anywhere.
Man does have a "freedom", but this "freedom" is confined to his nature. Look no further than Joseph being betrayed and sold into slavery by his brothers. They wanted to kill him, but one of his brothers, I think it was Reuben, talked them out of doing that, and sold him into slavery instead. No one coerced them into doing this, as they freely and gladly ridded themselves of their younger brother. As Joseph told them later, "you did it for evil, God did it for good." So there's man's freedom and God's sovereignty in full view.
Then there's the cross of the Christ. As Peter stated "this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death."[Acts 2:23] Again, no one coerced them into having the Christ crucified. They acted in accordance with their wicked hearts, as they hated the Christ with nary a cause to do so. As the Christ plainly stated, ‘THEY HATED ME WITHOUT A CAUSE.’[John 15:25]
So, the sooner ppl realize that God's sovereignty and man's "freedom" will meet nowhere, and that both are biblically true, the sooner we can go on to debating real truths.
He was put in the ICU on December 2 with respiratory problems. He's been on oxygen, at least, since the 2016 conference, so respiratory not good. But he is in stable condition. (FB from December 2nd, so no updates to give.)
Nope, sorry.
You've never believed a person to be only figuratively made alive until it became a convenient out and argument at this present time. Your theory has been concisely shown to be invalid and absurd. You're simply writing in your narrative and theology ad lib as you go along, and it isn't sound theology dear sister.
We are not made alive figuratively, nor were we dead figuratively, both are literal realities.
You've never believed a person to be only figuratively made alive until it became a convenient out and argument at this present time. Your theory has been concisely shown to be invalid and absurd. You're simply writing in your narrative and theology ad lib as you go along, and it isn't sound theology dear sister.
We are not made alive figuratively, nor were we dead figuratively, both are literal realities.
That is not only a very superficial observation, but quite derogatory, and avoids the real issue.
It is Calvinists who believe they are in control, and they have God all "figured out" -- that He is such a strange God that he actually selects some for Heaven and others for Hell. That He actually made a decree to damn human beings to Hell before they were created!
That is truly an abominable doctrine which contradicts and contravenes the Word of God.
As to the truth about salvation, only God can save any sinner, and nothing one does on his own can make him right with God. However God commands all sinners to (1) REPENT and (2) BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.
So unless a person obeys the Gospel, he cannot be saved. And unless Calvinists believe that God does the repenting and the believing, they have to admit that sinners must respond to the Gospel, and that is exactly what non-Calvinists believe.
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:29-31).
It is Calvinists who believe they are in control, and they have God all "figured out" -- that He is such a strange God that he actually selects some for Heaven and others for Hell. That He actually made a decree to damn human beings to Hell before they were created!
That is truly an abominable doctrine which contradicts and contravenes the Word of God.
As to the truth about salvation, only God can save any sinner, and nothing one does on his own can make him right with God. However God commands all sinners to (1) REPENT and (2) BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.
So unless a person obeys the Gospel, he cannot be saved. And unless Calvinists believe that God does the repenting and the believing, they have to admit that sinners must respond to the Gospel, and that is exactly what non-Calvinists believe.
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:29-31).
Brother,
We agree that You have not chosen me but I have chosen you means precisely what it says.
We recognize unequivocally evidence of our mutual Salvation.
We disagree on the role of freewill in the process.
Since we are unlikely to persuade each other, or those who are likeminded; and the issue will be resolved when Jesus calls us home: could our respective camps stop sniping at each other and spend our time more profitably as brothers and sisters who don't let a point of disagreement destroy the unity of the body?