Why is God So Mean?

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The moon travels away from the earth at a certain amount of inches a year. One scientist pointed out that if dinosaurs died 65,000,000 years ago he could tell you why. Because the moon was so close it would have decapitated them

I'd like to be the first to point out that I was wrong, the moon travels away about 4 centimeters and that scientist was wrong about where the moon would have been 65,000,000 years ago. But I stand strong on the other points.
 
I was going to use a more philosophical, intellectual title to address this matter, but the bible itself says of itself that it is so simple that a fool shouldn't err. So, like a child, I'm keeping it simple, because there really is no other way to put it.

I was born and raised in the pentecostal church. I no longer claim Christianity, but in my search for knowing God, I still listen to sermons. The sermons I listen to are usually by black hellfire and brimstone preachers, because that;s what I'm most familiar with. I don't know if you're familiar with a man named G Craig Lewis. But if you are, then you have an idea of the type of ministers I listen to. What I honestly have a hard time understanding is why it feels to me that God is hell-bent on sending me to hell?

You might think that I'm exaggerating when I make this statement, but I am by no means being overdramatic. I try very hard to believe that when these preachers say "God loves you but hates your sin," that they mean it. I try with everything within me to believe that these people really love me. But I have to be honest. I have never felt love coming from these preachers. I always feel that they are just saying what they have been taught to say, if they aren't just in it for the show. I do believe that some of them are genuine and sincere. But you can also be sincerely wrong.

even all of these testimonies I have ben hearing over the years of people who died and went to hell, and were brought back to tell about it. I listen closely, and what I gather is that it is very hard to make it into Heaven. And I don;t undertand if God really wants people in Heaven, why He made it so hard to get in. It just doesn't seem right. It seems to me like He plays favorites. But why create people just to throw them in hell. It's almost like He enjoys it. Even many preacher talk as if they're glad there is a hell and glad you're going. It's like if you don't live up to THEIR standard (personal hidden agenda), you can't do anything right, and for that you ARE going to hell. I also don;t understand why God is so hard on homosexuals when He created the very biology that made them that way. And don;t tell me that they weren't born that way, because I am one.

Unless you have seen things through, of course, you cannot fully understand where I'm coming from, and most of this is just hot air to you. And this is another thing; Christians are poor listeners and bad at understanding. They just love to judge others so they can (secretly... and often unconsciously)feel better about themselves. I know this because I've spent my lifetime (29 years) around them. I've seen Christians of every kind, so I know what I'm talking about. But I would literally be here for a couple of days describing to you all of the contradictions I have observed throughout this exclusive belief system.

And as much as I want to know God and be His closest friend, I feel that He doesn't really want to get to know me, but is just out to play mind games with me. I'm not being irreverent or sacrilerious: I'm just being honest. It makes me not feel like praying, even though I want to. It makes me not want to read the bible, because it's full of contradictions (and don't tell me there aren't, when they are very blatant). God just seems, to me, to be the cruelest, most cold blooded, hard hearted, unforgiving, stone faced, dominating, ruthless, non caring, bi-polar, sadistic, spiteful, wicked terrorist of all time.

Have you seen this recent testimony of a girl, Angelica Zambrano, who claims to have gone to hell for 23 hours and saw Selena Quintanilla, Michael Jackson, and children in hell?
"23 Hours Dead" - Testimony of Angelica Zambrano (with English voice-over) - YouTube

I feel your discouragement very much and would have to agree with much of what you say it's a shame that the christian faith has found itself in it's present predicament especially when it comes to the holier than thou's of the faith which do not practice what they preach. True shame that you don't claim Christianity anymore and the fire and brimstone preachers (not all) well there using the fear approach to faith and this has a lot of negative aspects. The only time I can recall Jesus losing his cool is at the temple with the money changers.....and who could blame him if you came to your fathers house and people were spray painting grafitti on the walls and deficating on the floor you would be ticked too. I use analogy I know the money changers didn't do this verbatum but it serves to make the point. People get very emotionaly charged when talking doctrine especially if they're different. I guess main thing is to show compassion and understanding even if you do not agree with their point of view and pray for understanding to come to both parties. Best thing I've found is a personal relationship with Jesus is best that way it's just you and him.
anyway keep your stick on the ice were all in this together
 
This is the statement that I hear so many times and its the one that really represents to entire problem with Christianity.

It seems so sad to me that you denigrate your virtues, achievments, thoughts, actions and principles in this way.

When Christians say "I'd be nothing without God" it makes me shudder. My view is that you made God, not the other way round.

I hope for, and expect, responses to my statement but please dont bash me


I can understand your thought process and the reason behind the words you post and say. I too feel that like you this statement "I'd be nothing without God" is rather obscure. However I will propose another thought pattern to your process.

I also agree with this statement and know that it is 100% truth "I'd be nothing without God" perhaps it's time for me to share alittle about my life with you. I am a diagnosed schzaphrenic court-ordered to accept social security and too live with my mother. I am 39 years old and this happened by an idaho judge aprox 8 years ago. i would have to check my records but that is beside the point.

I grew up as any other Indiana born Texas raised boy did i suppose. I was born in the north but am southern at heart. I was always popular on the play ground I could run a football like no-one's bussiness from in-zone to in-zone without a single person grabbing my flag or tackleing me. I truly felt invincible on the football field. Kids always picked me first, my flag football team was happy to have me. I begged and begged my couch to let me run the football when I was but 5 years old. Finally the last play of the game he said ok Butch (that's the name my grandmother gave me when I was 2 days old and has stuck throughout my life) I ran that football from the one yard line on the kick-off to the inzone without a single person touching my flag. The coach was flabergasted he said I should of had you running from the beginning. Well unfortuantly we moved and the town we moved too had no football team for 5-6 year olds.

I started playing on a school team in 8th grade. The coach didn't know what to do with me I was so big for a 8th grader he wanted me to be a line man. So I did as I was instructed and blocked. In a scrimage game with the varsity team my clavicle got broke and my mom was mad, she was so mad she went up there and told the coach he had no bussiness making 8th graders play 11-12th graders and I was no longer allowed to play football in school. However I dominated during recess and noone could tackle me I could spin out of any tackle.

Now was that me or was that God? That is open to debate. I did not know who Jesus truly was then. Sure I had been to church and sunday school with my family many a time. But I honestly had no idea who Jesus was.

I have been in and out of mental hospitals since I was 16 am 39 now. Prolly been to over 10 different mental hospitals in my lifetime. At first I was terrified to tell doctors what I saw, heard, smelt, or dreamed. I thought for so long I had to act normal to keep myself out of the hospital. Was truly terrifying for me growing up.

Then when I was 22 years old I was staying with my mom and her boyfriend. Was working on his ranch and staying in one of his sons rooms who was away living with his ex-wive or the sons mother if you will. And believe it or not there was a ouji or weedji board in the closet. I had never missed with anything like that before in my life so i was curious. The little plastic thing really moved and i was talkin to something not me.

Whatever was moving the board spelled out that it wanted me to rape and kill. And my mama raised me right I immediatly said OMG that's evil. And I became very scarred. Then it spelled out that it was gonna kill me that night. I was freaking out. I was scarred outta my mind, I knew if I went and told my mom what I was experienceing back to the mental hospital. I hated those places all the drugs made me feel like a zombie half the time.

So for the first time in my life I cryed out to God, I cryed out to Jesus asking for help because I did not wanna die. A peace came over me I had never felt. I knew I would be ok, I immediatly put the board back in the closet. The next day I had such a craving to read the bible OMG I wanted to know God and I knew the bible had that information. Of course there was not a single bible to be found in the whole house. We was like 20 miles or so from town and I had no license or car. Well a few days later I told my mom what had happened and she immediatly made her boyfriend burn the thing with fire telling him under no reason would she stay in a house with a weedgie board. We then went to town and she took me to a second hand store in town and I searched the store for a bible. I found an old NRSV bible tattered and torn and I broke down in tears and was so happy.

Went back to the ranch worked and read the bible at the dinner table and everywhere I went I could not put the bible down I read and read and read. Then one sunday I asked my mom if I could goto church and she gave me a ride and dropped me off at a Carpenter's non-denominational church. Was a female preacher/pastor and she was talking about the prodigal son. Then asked if anyone wanted to be saved I immediatly said yes and accepted Christ into my heart. Praise God!

Now I would like to tell you that it was easy street and a bed of roses after that but unfortuantly that would not be the truth. Well my 17 years has been one hell of a ride let me tell you The Spirit of the Lord has lead me to preach on the street corners of america, homeless and in my life I have forsaken all for the sake of the gospel. I have suffered much for Jesus. I was diagnosed with schrizaphrenia when I was 16. And have always been the odd man out since my illness manifested.

People would often fist-fight me hit me, kick me, knock me down. Even before I was saved I could never bring myself to hit people back. I suppose some could say and often said that I was afraid. But those that would hit me would leave saying OMG your nuts cause I would stand up look them right in the eye and say that all you got hit me again. If that is the kinda person you are just kick me in the head.

My fear was not of them, but I have always feared God's judgement for my actions. I feared God would be angry at me if I inflicted pain on others.

So, anyway after I was saved I tried to the best of my abilty to forsake all for Christ preached on the street corners, in the highways, the bi-ways the lowest and forgotten places of america. At one time God even lead me to Salt Lake City, Utah to preach in the temple courtyard and the sidewalk around the temple which I walked 3 times by God's decree. For what that is worth about 11 years ago I meet a woman named Cher and we confessed our love for one another and married ourselves under God and made a vow to God that we would remain faithful to one another.

We were not married in a church were not married legally by any of man's ways. God blessed us with a little girl named Rachel. However at the time of her pregnancy her, her mother, and her church all wanted her to get an abortion. They all said we was nuts and were living in sin. Which very well maybe I have no idea. I do know I shaved my head and made a vow to God Almighty to remain faithful to her. So I honor that I do not fear man. I do fear God.

Well needless to say I tried to get custody because her sister was given my daughter the judge ruled that her sister would have custody because me and Cher both had a mental illness history. So I became so angry at the entire world, at God, at mankind, at myself and I truly just wanted to die. I was praying for God to take me home because if these are the rules if this is my life I can't take this crap anymore. No I was not sucidal I was not gonna kill myself by any means I fear God and now that is wrong.

Well whether you want to believe me or not I had a vision in my mind of an Angel of Lord God Almighty wielding a flaming sword. I didn't see him physically. I saw and heard him in my mind. He told me "Cameran you are forever loved, Cameran you are forever forgiven, Cameran you are forever redeemed, Cameran you are forever justified, Cameran you are forever saved." I felt the tears from this angel fall upon my eyes around the sides and below them. I felt them embed in my skin like an unseen tatoo. I can't explain this and I am not trying too.

So has been 10 years for me being seperated from my wife if you will I use the term losely. I have not laid with another woman and will not unless I become truly married under God and man. All I can do is warn you. Do not take your vows to Lord God Almighty hastely or lightly for He will bring everything rather secret or unsecret to judgement and you will have to give an account of yourself for all the things you know about and even those things you do not know about. Which I am sorry to say is alot more than the things you know about. Becareful when you entertain strangers for some have entertained angels unware.

God Bless and thank you for letting me share a little of my life with you. I hope this has help you understand that I can honestly say It is not I that live, but Christ that lives within me.
 
What do you mean?
I mean another title to this thread would have been better :)

No one in their right mind wants to go to Hell, sir. I do not want to go to Hell, and I get tired of people telling me that I'm sending myself to Hell. It's another christian cliche.' And it's simply a cop-out of explaining why a "loving," "merciful" "omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent (all-powerful, all-seeing, and all-knowing)" creator would CREATE such a place. The FACT is I did not create Hell. Hell came out of HIS mind. And from all of the many things I have read and heard about Hell, it seems that this creator God has a rather dimented mind. He comes off as more of a Bi-polar psychopath than a loving father. And if God "predestined" me to Hell, then no matter how much He supposedly tries to reach out to me, I'm going to Hell anyway, because He knew and formed me even before the foundations of the world...

Actually, many people in their right mind are plotting their way to hell, And yes ofcourse, God can create anything he wants, does it change the fact that he is God?.What do u mean by demented mind?, And God does not *predestine* anybody to hell. We have a choice to make that is why there is something like free will..You're right, God formed you and he formed you to serve him. Not to throw you to hell, but you can decide to deny his free call of Love and call him *demented*. And end up in hell!.. Or you can accept this love and give Heaven a shot and see if God won't help you to make heaven;)


It's not about a church, in particular. I've been the member of 4 different churches in my 29 years of living, but I also grew up watching christian television on a regular basis and listening to sermons. My mother was the audio person who recorded all of the sermons, so I had the privilege of being able to listen to the same sermon over and over again. I also used to order teaching albums and books from many different ministries. I have listened to sermons on youtube and other video sharing sites. I've read many articles on the internet... so my understanding of God is a culmination of many years, of thousands of hours, of thousands of sermons, by hundreds of ministers. Currently, I don't attend church, and haven't regularly for 3 years or more... But if you want to know what I have been listening to lately, just type in "G. Craig Lewis" into youtube.com and pull up as many of his teachings as you can and listen to them: As a matter of fact, listen to these for starters G Craige Lewis "The truth behind hip-hop" - YouTube , G Craige Lewis - Choose a Side! 1 of 2 - YouTube , G Craige Lewis - Choose a Side! 2 of 2 - YouTube , EX Ministries Video EX-CAST I - YouTube (I think there are 5 parts to this EX cast). Also take a little time to read his blog G. Craige Lewis Blog . The point is, don't just tell me to change preachers without first listening to that preacher yourself to understand why I listen to him.

It's not how far, but how well!.. It's not about how many hours or how many sermons you've listened to, it's how they have influenced your life. Positively or Negatively?. If after all the sermons you claim to have listened to, you still have such terrible ideas about God and it's so easy for you to God all sort of names,then you've obviously been listening to the wrong thing.


And I have people telling me, all the time--after expressing these concerns to them,that I should change churches, change gods, change religions, change beloief systems. But it's not that easy. Life doesn't work that way, where you just make something disappear because you don't agree with it. This is an excapist mentality. But I'm not the kind of person who just shuts a person out completely because I don't agree with what he's saying. I could miss very valuable information that way. And what if what they are saying is true? Just because I may stop listening to what they're saying doesn;t change the truth about it.

The truth doesn't change, but many messages or sermons change the truth. Or simply put, many sermons or churches don't preach the truth, the preach Lies, Fear, Condemnation.. They're simply called HERETICS, search for the TRUTH. It's there waiting for you

What if I try my hardest and still don't make it in? Then I would have wasted my whole life on a gamble. I'm sorry but I take the state of my eternal soul too seriously to play rush-and-roulette with it. I need to KNOW for a fact where I am going before I get there. I don't like those kinds of surprises. As I said, I think that the greatest tragedy in the universe is wasted time. And I don't want to waste my time wish and hoping that I will be one of the lucky ones to make it into Heaven. If I'm going to Hell then I would rather go out with a bang. ...And if things like being mad at someone, not paying tithes, gossiping, smoking, doubting, prayerlessness, cursing, ignorance.. slandering, being effeminate, having pride, having vanity, eating too much, lying, disobeying God (all things mention in the bible, and these "encounters"...and these are not all of the sins) will send a person to Hell, then aren't all of us going to Hell? I mean if it is true that a person can lose his salvation, then there is no way that a person can be completely conscious of all of these things at one time. You will have to walk around constantly saying "Lord forgive me.. Lord forgive me.. Lord forgive me..." non-stop. Say you die unexpectedy and suddenly before being able to say Lord forgive me. Then won't you go straight to Hell?

No way, all of us are going to hell, if we try our best, God is ready to help us, till we just CAN'T DO THESE THINGS AGAIN. Do you mean to say, there is nobody in Heaven?, can't we crucify our flesh?. Must we smoke?, must we gossip?, must we slander?, must we curse?,must we have pride?, must we eat too much?, must we lie?, must we disobey God?, must we be effeminate?.. NO.. we can do without all these and you know it :)

I've always heard people say "For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten son..." But the truth of the matter is that God so messed up the world that it was the least He could do. Christians sing that song "God is in control." Well, if He is in control, He has a rather poor track record, and He's bad at saving people. If He's not in control then stop lying. Why even sing the song?

Bunch of rubbish i don't want to reply to.. There is something as free will, just know that. If God will brainwash us.. Then it's not worth it!!!!


To link homosexuality with liars, serial killers, murderers, prostitutes... is to assume that a person has control over his sexual preference. Well, orientation is inherent. And I don't have time or space here to go through the evidences of homosexuality being natural. But put it like this. If you can't be born homosexual, then also cannot be born heterosexual. It would be impossible, because homosexuality and heterosexuality have the exact same makeup. It's still sexuality; the only difference is gender. Let me ask you, what do you say about people who were born with both genitalia and are forced to choose a gender? Are they going to Hell? ...There are over 400 species in the animal kingdom that are known to be homosexual. Are they evil animals? ... We are sexual creatures. The very first statement that's made about us when we are born is a sexual statement: "It's a boy!" "It's a girl!" And if you don't believe that sexual orientation is predetermined in the womb, you should do some study into biology.

Do u believe you are an animal?. I thought we were made from sand?.. Are you bringing science into this?.If animals are homosexuals, i think that should be a good reason why we shouldn't be?

Thanks for being honest with this.

My pleasure

Bye!
 
Well in short it's not God who is mean, it's our sin that condemns us NOT GOD. We all have free will and if we chose to exercise our free will in the form of committing sin......Then as the bible states THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH.....simple equation.....very simple. The hard part for us as earth bound humans is recognizing sin for what it is not vindicating it with our own personal beliefs.

SELAH
 
I've always heard people say "For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten son..." But the truth of the matter is that God so messed up the world that it was the least He could do.
God did not mess up this world. Satan did, and used humans to do that. THE GREAT CONTROVERSY - YouTube

Well, if He is in control, He has a rather poor track record, and He's bad at saving people. If He's not in control then stop lying.

He's in control of those who give Him the control. As for the rest, this world is presently ruled by the Prince of Darkness.
 
I mean another title to this thread would have been better :)

What title would you have chosen?


Actually, many people in their right mind are plotting their way to hell, And yes ofcourse, God can create anything he wants, does it change the fact that he is God?.What do u mean by demented mind?, And God does not *predestine* anybody to hell. We have a choice to make that is why there is something like free will..You're right, God formed you and he formed you to serve him. Not to throw you to hell, but you can decide to deny his free call of Love and call him *demented*. And end up in hell!.. Or you can accept this love and give Heaven a shot and see if God won't help you to make heaven;)

It is impossible for someone to plot their way to Hel, because they don't know what Hell is like in the first place, or even if there is a real Hell. You would have to see a place first before you can come up with a plot. And do you really think that a person would consciously choose to be tortured for eternity? Come on man, really? seriously? I'm sure if Hell is real, everyone there was surprised when they got there. Some people have never heard of God, Jesus, Heaven, or Hell... yet, because they weren't christians, they went to Hell. Are you telling me they "chose" Hell? Honestly? And whether we have free will or not, God created that free will, and most preachers will say, "God knows your thought before you think it" and that in His inifinity knowledge, He already knows what you're going to choose. And the very fact that future prophecies in the bible are set in stone (no one can ever pray them away or do anything to change them) proves that people were predestined to Heaven and Hell, just as they were predestined to what they would do on earth. afterall, what we do here decides where we go in eternity. ...But I guess no one ever eally takes the time to think these things through, but just go along with what they've heard another man say.


It's not how far, but how well!.. It's not about how many hours or how many sermons you've listened to, it's how they have influenced your life. Positively or Negatively?. If after all the sermons you claim to have listened to, you still have such terrible ideas about God and it's so easy for you to God all sort of names,then you've obviously been listening to the wrong thing.

Well, I can't expand anymore on this. You obviously don't understand me, because you are not me. You haven't heard what I've heard, seen what I've seen, or experienced what I've experienced. so of course, you're going to devalue everything that I've experienced because you haven't experienced it yourself. This is only natural. So unless you walk in my shoes, it's impossible for you to understand me... which is unfortunate.


The truth doesn't change, but many messages or sermons change the truth. Or simply put, many sermons or churches don't preach the truth, the preach Lies, Fear, Condemnation.. They're simply called HERETICS, search for the TRUTH. It's there waiting for you

Refer to the previous response^


No way, all of us are going to hell, if we try our best, God is ready to help us, till we just CAN'T DO THESE THINGS AGAIN. Do you mean to say, there is nobody in Heaven?, can't we crucify our flesh?. Must we smoke?, must we gossip?, must we slander?, must we curse?,must we have pride?, must we eat too much?, must we lie?, must we disobey God?, must we be effeminate?.. NO.. we can do without all these and you know it :)

What about tithers? Non-tithers go to Hell too. But If salvation is a "free gift," why is there an admi$$ion fee attached?


Bunch of rubbish i don't want to reply to.. There is something as free will, just know that. If God will brainwash us.. Then it's not worth it!!!!

Again, God created free will, then predetermined our choices. So like everything else in christianity, the word "free" always comes with a catch. And many of these people who have claimed to have been on tours of Heaven and Hell claim that Heaven was virtually "empty" and Hell was "full" (enlaring itself everyday). So if Satan is the god of this world, which god is obviously winning? It looks to me like satan has more power than God, to have 10 times as many trophies as God does. ...And also, if God created Hell for the devil and his angels then what are human beings doing in Hell? You might say because the're part of satan's family. Ok... but why is Hell renovate itself for human beings? from all tof th testimonies I've heard, it sounds like Hell was custom made for human beings? So are we fallen angels or humans?


Do u believe you are an animal?. I thought we were made from sand?.. Are you bringing science into this?.If animals are homosexuals, i think that should be a good reason why we shouldn't be?

The fact that animals are homosexuals shows that there is an autonomy to nature. It's not about animals; it's about nature: The very nature that God created. And when animals die, they turn back into the same kind of "sand" as we do when we die.


My pleasure

;)

Bye!

-----------------------------------
 
no offence - but those testimonies about people "going to hell" then being brought back I get quote skeptical over. it's not mentioned in the bible
 
I totally understand the feeling God is mean, as I have felt such too....I created a website **HERESY LINK REMOVED** to discuss my conclusions....hope you have a read and let me know what you think
 
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I totally understand the feeling God is mean, as I have felt such too....I created a website **HERESY LINK REMOVED** to discuss my conclusions....hope you have a read and let me know what you think

Icarus,I don't like having to tell you this but,this is a 6 years old thread,the last post was made in 2011,so you are talking to "noone" just letting you know,I've done it too,read the thread date next time you post.
 
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I am new to this forum, but I have studied this subject extensively. There is a scripture which says, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge," or something very close to that.

What would you say or do if you suddenly found out that homosexuality was a result of nutritional deficiencies? Would you laugh? Since I'm new to this forum, I don't know how to post hyperlinks, nor do I know if that is even possible, but I can instruct you on how to re-create a hyperlink do get the results that I have seen. To see such results, go a search engine called alltheinternet dot com, and type in the following search terms: homosexual tendencies result from nutritional deficiencies

Then read the links, and the research behind them! Zinc deficiencies play a major role in homosexuality. To get more background on it, find and read U.S. Senate document number 264, which was placed into record in the year 1936, which was 81 years ago! That is how long people have been nutritionally deficient, at least in the United States!