predestination?

[OtherWay210]

To SovereignGrace

You're wrong to believe God is " unfair" . If you've gotten that impression from Pauls words there, then you need to study and read carefully.

I said Paul names himself as predestined. I did not imply anything ..
Don't hate the messenger, and certainly don't let the Bible Gods words offend you . I'm just sharing scripture Im not interested in a argument about this subject.

If God is not a respecter of Persons, then its safe to assume Paul earned his being predestined to the work of God . You've basically answered your own question.

You might consider what God said to Jeremiah and his being foreordained .

Understand these are people that were integral in bringing Gods' words forward ..

 

[dcontroversal]

My view....God predetermined before he cast down the world that ALL who come to him through Jesus would be received as sons and daughters....!

 

[Depleted]

I personally would Not take anything your teacher says as biblical. Hes Ignorant .

There are people like Paul who were predetermined to be saved.. When you say predestined, you're saying something that was agreed upon before the fact. Paul explains, that before the foundations of the age, he was chosen to do Gods will at this time, while he walked the earth Ephesians 1:4-6

. What is Gods will ? That no one should perish but have eternal life, as 2 Peter 3 states. What does John 3:16 say ?

There are some, who are predestined, to bring the flock into eternal life. This is not about some random scenario your teacher might want to paint to rectify his own unease ; about the variables of life and the choices people make probably to his chagrin ...

Stick with how Gods words say these things, as The scriptures outline Gods plans ...

The ignorance isn't on the teacher's side, since he did stick to what God said.

 

[Depleted]

To SovereignGrace

You're wrong to believe God is " unfair" . If you've gotten that impression from Pauls words there, then you need to study and read carefully.

I said Paul names himself as predestined. I did not imply anything ..
Don't hate the messenger, and certainly don't let the Bible Gods words offend you . I'm just sharing scripture Im not interested in a argument about this subject.

If God is not a respecter of Persons, then its safe to assume Paul earned his being predestined to the work of God . You've basically answered your own question.

You might consider what God said to Jeremiah and his being foreordained .

Understand these are people that were integral in bringing Gods' words forward ..

Whoa, dude! You could use some tutorial help in reading comprehension. You've twisted what was said so badly, it stopped making any sense.

 

[Blain]

The flaw with thinking there is a flaw with predestination, is the only way to do that is to disagree with the Bible. Not a good flaw to have.

With all due respect Lynn It isn't the bible I disagree with it's the view of it what it says that I am in disagreement with.
Yes there are many scriptures that seem to point to predestination but there are also many that say other wise such as Joshua 24:14-15 14 “Now therefore fear the Lord and serve him in sincerity and in faithfulness. Put away the gods that your fathers served beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”
And also
Acts 10:34 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

And again 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

So according to the first scripture we can choose whom we serve

and according to the second God does not play favorites

and according to the third God desires that all are saved., if he desires it then why would limit who could be saved or not? If one cannot choose him then are we to say those who were not chosen before sorry about your bad luck enjoy the fiery pits of hell?

 

[SovereignGrace]

To SovereignGrace

You're wrong to believe God is " unfair" . If you've gotten that impression from Pauls words there, then you need to study and read carefully.

I said Paul names himself as predestined. I did not imply anything ..
Don't hate the messenger, and certainly don't let the Bible Gods words offend you . I'm just sharing scripture Im not interested in a argument about this subject.

If God is not a respecter of Persons, then its safe to assume Paul earned his being predestined to the work of God . You've basically answered your own question.

You might consider what God said to Jeremiah and his being foreordained .

Understand these are people that were integral in bringing Gods' words forward ..

Peter proclaimed God is not a respecter of ppl in Acts 10:34, and Paul wrote it down in Romans 2:11 to support it as well.

I rest my case.

FYI, I never said God was unfair. Never even alluded to this.

 

[Zi]

All great points and I'll add to just for general reading......

John the Baptist said Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world

With all due respect Lynn It isn't the bible I disagree with it's the view of it what it says that I am in disagreement with.
Yes there are many scriptures that seem to point to predestination but there are also many that say other wise such as Joshua 24:14-15 14 “Now therefore fear the Lord and serve him in sincerity and in faithfulness. Put away the gods that your fathers served beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”
And also
Acts 10:34 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

And again 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

So according to the first scripture we can choose whom we serve

and according to the second God does not play favorites

and according to the third God desires that all are saved., if he desires it then why would limit who could be saved or not? If one cannot choose him then are we to say those who were not chosen before sorry about your bad luck enjoy the fiery pits of hell?

 

[Blain]

And just for extra measure

Romans 10:9-10

Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Romans 10:13
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

 

[notuptome]

Pr 15:2 The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of the unwise poureth out foolishness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

With all due respect Lynn It isn't the bible I disagree with it's the view of it what it says that I am in disagreement with.
Yes there are many scriptures that seem to point to predestination but there are also many that say other wise such as Joshua 24:14-15 14 “Now therefore fear the Lord and serve him in sincerity and in faithfulness. Put away the gods that your fathers served beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”
And also
Acts 10:34 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

And again 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

So according to the first scripture we can choose whom we serve

and according to the second God does not play favorites

and according to the third God desires that all are saved., if he desires it then why would limit who could be saved or not? If one cannot choose him then are we to say those who were not chosen before sorry about your bad luck enjoy the fiery pits of hell?

I would say I do believe in predestination. Just not the fatalistic view of it.

God did predetermine things, He did not predetermine that man would fall by CHOOSING to rebell. But he did predetermine that he would not destroy man, but he loved them so much, he gave his only son, and predetermined that whoever through faith receives him, he will conform to his image.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I would say I do believe in predestination. Just not the fatalistic view of it.

There is no question that God does pre-determine, foreordain, and predestine certain events and elect certain individuals for specific purposes. The crucifixion of Christ was pre-determined and foreordained BEFORE the foundation of the world.

Him, being delivered by the determinate* counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain (Acts 2:23).

*Strong's Concordance

horizó: to mark off by boundaries, to determine​

Original Word: ὁρίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: horizó
Phonetic Spelling: (hor-id'-zo)
Short Definition: I define, determine, appoint, decree
Definition: I separate, mark off by boundaries; I determine, appoint, designate.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3724: ὁρίζω

ὁρίζω; 1 aorist ὡρισα; passive, perfect participleὡρισμένος; 1 aorist participle ὁρισθεις; (fromὅρος a boundary, limit); from (Aeschylus and) Herodotus down; to define; i. e.

2.to determine, appoint: with an accusative of the thing, ἡμέραν, Hebrews 4:7; καιρούς, Acts 17:26(numerous examples from Greek authors are given in Bleek, Hebrew-Br. 2:1, p. 538f); passive ὡρισμένος, 'determinate,' settled, Acts 2:23; τόὡρισμένον, that which hath been determined, according to appointment, decree,Luke 22:22; with an accusative of person Acts 17:31 (ᾧ by attraction for ὅν (Winers Grammar, § 24, 1; Buttmann, § 143, 8)); passive with a predicate nominative, Romans 1:4 (for although Christ was the Son of God before his resurrection, yet he was openly appointed (A. V.declared) such among men by this transcendent and crowning event); ὁρίζω, to ordain, determine, appoint,Acts 10:42; followed by an infinitive Acts 11:29 (Sophocles from 19 d. (i. e. Aegeus (539), viii., p. 8, Brunck edition)). (Compare:ἀφορίζω, ἀποδιορίζω, πρωρίζω.)

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you (1 Pet 1:20)

But what God does not do is pre-select some for salvation and others for damnation. That would defeat the very reason for the crucifixion of Christ -- to become the propitiation for the sins of the whole world (1 John 1:1,2).

 

[wattie]

For predestination.. there is

1) A place in heaven pre-set for anyone who believes in Jesus according to John 3:16 plus Romans 10 and other scriptures.. so that is one kind of predestination.. this isn't predestining people for heaven or hell.. it's having a place in heaven pre-set for anyone who believes in Jesus.

2) Jesus' churches were pre-set as the primary means by which we are to grow and worship and learn in Jesus. They are the means by which we are 'conformed to His will' .The book of Ephesians has this kind of predestination.

Someone who is saved has a place in heaven prepared for them-- their faithfulness will determine what rewards in heaven they get.

Scriptural baptism of someone who is already saved will set the requirements for joining one of Jesus' churches.

 

[Dai3234]

With all due respect Lynn It isn't the bible I disagree with it's the view of it what it says that I am in disagreement with.
Yes there are many scriptures that seem to point to predestination but there are also many that say other wise such as Joshua 24:14-15 14 “Now therefore fear the Lord and serve him in sincerity and in faithfulness. Put away the gods that your fathers served beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”
And also
Acts 10:34 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

And again 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

So according to the first scripture we can choose whom we serve

and according to the second God does not play favorites

and according to the third God desires that all are saved., if he desires it then why would limit who could be saved or not? If one cannot choose him then are we to say those who were not chosen before sorry about your bad luck enjoy the fiery pits of hell?

If God wants everyone to be saved, he would make sure the Bible was extremely obvious, simple, and basically impossible to get wrong, yes?

But God did not. I suppose it's all man's fault. Even though Revelation is the future. So He knows where it's all going, right. Therefore it's predestination, even though predestination is depressing, I can't deny it at the moment.

 

[John146]

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

What's the adoption?Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Those who are in Christ have been predestined unto the adoption which is the redemption of the body. It is a future thing. Thus the term pre...destination. The body of the believe needs redeeming. The destination is determined ahead of time for those in Christ. For one to be predestined, one has to get in Christ through believing the gospel. In the future, the believer's body will be changed into the image of Christ.

1 Corinthians 1549 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

As you can see, predestination has nothing to do with one being predetermined unto salvation, rather it is a beautiful future promise for the one who is already in Christ.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If God wants everyone to be saved, he would make sure the Bible was extremely obvious, simple, and basically impossible to get wrong, yes?

Since the Gospel message is indeed *extremely obvious, simple, and basically impossible to get wrong*, the answer is *No*. That is not even the issue. God does want everyone to be saved, but sinners must meet God s conditions in order to be saved. Those two conditions are stated in Acts 20:21 -- repentance and faith. Those who will not repent and believe -- i.e. obey the Gospel -- will not be saved.

 

[Blain]

If God wants everyone to be saved, he would make sure the Bible was extremely obvious, simple, and basically impossible to get wrong, yes?

But God did not. I suppose it's all man's fault. Even though Revelation is the future. So He knows where it's all going, right. Therefore it's predestination, even though predestination is depressing, I can't deny it at the moment.

Actually yes it is all mans fault, our interpretation of his word is what makes it the way it is. true enough God did not make his word obvious there are indeed many hidden secrets and treasures to be sought in studying it but that has nothing to do with him wanting all to be saved. You cannot determine a doctrine to be true or not based on a lacking of understanding of the word God

 

[Blain]

I would say I do believe in predestination. Just not the fatalistic view of it.

God did predetermine things, He did not predetermine that man would fall by CHOOSING to rebell. But he did predetermine that he would not destroy man, but he loved them so much, he gave his only son, and predetermined that whoever through faith receives him, he will conform to his image.

I believe in predestination to a point. I do believe he has predestined everything he has seen the beginning middle and end to this story as if it has already happened however I believe that when it comes to salvation things are not always set in stone.

 

[Willie-T]

I can't do as some of you seem to want to do. Predestination means only one thing, and that is that God decided before you were born, if you would go to Hell, or not. All the rest of this stuff of trying to make it mean something else is not what Calvinists openly state.

And, I don't believe in any of that self-righteous junk.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe in predestination to a point. I do believe he has predestined everything he has seen the beginning middle and end to this story as if it has already happened however I believe that when it comes to salvation things are not always set in stone.

I disagree, The Bible says we have been predestined to be conformed to his image, It also says he predestined, who was called, who was justified and who was glorified. It also says we were predestined to be adopted as sons, and given an inheritance which will never fade away,

God knows who will be saved, and since he knows who will be saved, he knows who to go after, and who will never recieve him no matter what he does.

Again, I just do not believe in fatalistic view of predestination. God did not destine individuals to hell.

 

[Depleted]

With all due respect Lynn It isn't the bible I disagree with it's the view of it what it says that I am in disagreement with.
Yes there are many scriptures that seem to point to predestination but there are also many that say other wise such as Joshua 24:14-15 14 “Now therefore fear the Lord and serve him in sincerity and in faithfulness. Put away the gods that your fathers served beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”
And also
Acts 10:34 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

And again 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

So according to the first scripture we can choose whom we serve

and according to the second God does not play favorites

and according to the third God desires that all are saved., if he desires it then why would limit who could be saved or not? If one cannot choose him then are we to say those who were not chosen before sorry about your bad luck enjoy the fiery pits of hell?

"Now therefore" what? "Now therefore" shows something happened before this sentence and it is related to ti. What was that?

"Then Peter" what? Something apparently happened right before this that caused this sentence.

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise," what? Why is anyone thinking the Lord is slack? And what is he slack about? Apparently something happened before this sentence.

A repeated problem, when you take scripture out of context. You can make is say anything you want it to say. One example -- 2 Peter 3:9 as the one I chose. When looked into what came before this the answer is "scoffer." So you think this is about everyone because we are scoffers? And God saves all including scoffers?

Sorry, but you get your theology by pick-and-choose verses that, taken out of context can be made to say whatever you want. Except, they are out of context, and none of them have to do with predestination, so you really never proved any point. Kind of tried to bamboozle me and hoping no one would notice.