Do we Believe Jesus and/or Obey Jesus?

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No, I did not sin because that teaching was only for the Jews during the dispensation of the Law.

That's where you are wrong.. Jesus spoke the truth in LUKE 6:30.. What He said was good and true..

You're decision to believe that it is not good and true and decision to not aknowledge your failure to live up to that perfect standard means you are currently not being forgiven for your transgression against His Word..

John 6: KJV
62 "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? {63} It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

 

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in other words if you don't obey him you never believed in him

So in other words when the day comes that you fail to obey Him it will be the day you condemn yourself by your own preaching..

You know obeying Him means Never failing to do his will.. Once you fail to obey Him once.. Just once.. You have failed to obey Him..

 

[Adstar]

so why was the devil thrown out of hell

Where in the Bible does it say that the devil was thrown out of hell ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did Jesus (before the cross) talk about salvation by grace?


It seems to me that Jesus (in the verse above) is not teaching how to be saved -- He is just prophesying that salvation (after the cross) would start by believing.

When the young rich man asked "what must I do to get eternal life" Jesus said "keep the commandments".


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Ok, this verse is better, but Jesus doesn't say that salvation is by grace.

Jesus knew the mans heart, He knew he loved money more. So he tried to get him to respond. The fact he had to ask what he had to do proved he did not understand the law. Or grace. Jesus wanted to show him he broke the first command, Thus he did not keep all the commands. If he would have realized that, He could have found grace and repented.

No one (OT or NT) was ever saved by law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus followed the OT.

Deut 6:
25) And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

Matt 19:
16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

After Jesus' resurrection, God's secret was revealed (Eph 3:2ff). As Paul wrote, and Peter taught, we are now saved by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ (Eph 1:13-14; Rom 3:20-22; 10:9-10). While it's true that salvation has always been by faith, and grace, OT believers had to demonstrate their faith by trying to keep the law. God knew that no man could keep it, so He granted grace to those who tried.

Gal 3: (ESV)
24) So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.

So people in the OT were saved by law? Who? And how? Since the law required perfection?

 

[shrume]

So people in the OT were saved by law? Who? And how? Since the law required perfection?

Please reread my post.

 

[Marcelo]

Wow! Am not an expert or anything but sounds like your lawyer did something against his oath as a lawyer and would be in big trouble if you reported him to the bar association.

Funny thing is that this one lawyer didn't know that I had already been victim of another lawyer. When he realized I knew how to file a complaint at the disciplinary board he quickly changed his mind and sent me the money.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please reread my post.

I did bro, It seeed to say Jesus did not teach grace, but when asked, he told people they had to follow the law. Did I misunderstand you?

 

[Marcelo]

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

This was written by John after the cross. I said the Lord Jesus himself (before the cross) never explicitly taught that salvation was by grace.

 

[ChristWhoLivesInMe]

amen, in the OT as well as the NT, no one was ever saved by the law because no one has ever kept the law as required by God (perfection)

Gal 3:21 "... for if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness should have been by the law."

I have read where (like John the Baptist parents) kept the law and were righteous before God. (Luke 1:6)

But there is no law given to give us eternal life.

Jesus said in John 10:10, "... I am come that they might have life.."

John 20:31, "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."

 

[Grandpa]

This was written by John after the cross. I said the Lord Jesus himself (before the cross) never explicitly taught that salvation was by grace.

The Lord Jesus showed His Grace.

He showed His Power.

He alluded to Salvation through Him by parables.

He told people they needed more faith.


But I think you are absolutely correct that He didn't teach Salvation by Grace, explicitly.

John 16:12 [FONT=&quot]I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.[/FONT]

 

[Marcelo]

That's where you are wrong.. Jesus spoke the truth in LUKE 6:30.. What He said was good and true..

You're decision to believe that it is not good and true and decision to not aknowledge your failure to live up to that perfect standard means you are currently not being forgiven for your transgression against His Word..

If I'm wrong I'm not alone. Suppose a gang of evil-doers break into your home and say: "this house is now ours". According to Luke 6:30 you can't demand it back. Are you and your family going to live in the streets?

 

[Marcelo]

The Lord Jesus showed His Grace.

He showed His Power.

He alluded to Salvation through Him by parables.

He told people they needed more faith.


But I think you are absolutely correct that He didn't teach Salvation by Grace, explicitly.

John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Thanks, brother! I think it's extremely important to give ears to Bible teachers who say there is a difference between the teachings of Jesus (before the cross) and those of Paul (Jesus' spokesman).

We don't have to trust such Bible teachers -- we can see the evidence for ourselves.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It seems to me that Jesus (in the verse above) is not teaching how to be saved -- He is just prophesying that salvation (after the cross) would start by believing.

Are you suggesting that no one got saved before the cross and while the Lord was on earth? If so kindly study the Gospels carefully and discover multiple examples of salvation by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ while He walked on this earth.

When the young rich man asked "

what must I do to get eternal life" Jesus said "keep the commandments".

Jesus was responding to an unbelieving Jew who wished to "inherit" eternal life. Since that was an impossibility, the Lord presented him with another impossibility, which was to keep the commandments perfectly. This man thought he was doing so until he was confronted with his idol -- his wealth. He was breaking the first three commandments right there. So when he was told to give up his idol and would not, that was the end of "inheriting" eternal life. Had he come to Christ and said "Lord, be merciful to me a sinner" he would have also been justified, like that publican.

Ok, this verse is better, but Jesus doesn't say that salvation is by grace.

Here we go again. Unless something is stated EXPLICITLY (according to some Christians) it cannot be true. When GRACE PERSONIFIED offers salvation, that is already a statement that salvation is by grace through faith.

 

[MarcR]

This was written by John after the cross. I said the Lord Jesus himself (before the cross) never explicitly taught that salvation was by grace.

You seem to be correct. This comes pretty close:Mt 9:10-13
10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
KJV

 

[justsomeone123]

Where in the Bible does it say that the devil was thrown out of hell ?

sorry ...heaven

 

[justsomeone123]

So in other words when the day comes that you fail to obey Him it will be the day you condemn yourself by your own preaching..

You know obeying Him means Never failing to do his will.. Once you fail to obey Him once.. Just once.. You have failed to obey Him..

really my preaching? don't you know jesus is the word of God he fulfilled the law and the prophets

 

[justsomeone123]

And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
so should we obey?

did you not read this?

 

[justsomeone123]

why do we teach others to obey parents, teachers, government, supervisors at work, doctors, news, religious leaders, celebrities, but not god?

 

[Didachos]

why do we teach others to obey parents, teachers, government, supervisors at work, doctors, news, religious leaders, celebrities, but not god?

You're right

Romans 6, 16.17: Paul says about "obedience"

[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? shall we sin because we are not under the law, but under grace? No, in no wise.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Or know ye not that to whom ye present yourselves slaves to obey, his slaves ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death or of the obedience unto righteousness?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thank God that, although ye were the slaves of sin, ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine unto which ye are delivered;

So the first obedience goes to God who spoke to us, taught us everything useful for our happiness and He expects that we obey to those teachings, because they mean His glorification and our happiness.