“Christalignment" heard of this?

[Speak2Me]

No answer about the snakes? Oh, well.... I guess that is an entirely different thing. ☺
What if God is actually telling some of these Bethel weirdest to use "Christian cards" to blow the minds of the Tarot Card Readers who come to laugh at Christianity?

There's an answer to the snake issue.

God chose that to show Moses His power to convince him, knowing ahead of time that Moses would need that miracle to destroy what Pharaoh's magicians were doing.

Did you happen to notice that after that 'incident', Moses NEVER did that again?
So , yeah, it WAS an entirely different thing. ☺

 

[Willie-T]

There's an answer to the snake issue.

God chose that to show Moses His power to convince him, knowing ahead of time that Moses would need that miracle to destroy what Pharaoh's magicians were doing.

Did you happen to notice that after that 'incident', Moses NEVER did that again?
So , yeah, it WAS an entirely different thing. ☺

And God has never used "cards" before. And if the one He might be seeking through this weird thing in 2017 comes to Him, it might never happen again. When did you get elected to declare when and how God does things?

 

[Willie-T]

There's an answer to the snake issue.

God chose that to show Moses His power to convince him, knowing ahead of time that Moses would need that miracle to destroy what Pharaoh's magicians were doing.

Did you happen to notice that after that 'incident', Moses NEVER did that again?
So , yeah, it WAS an entirely different thing. ☺

BTW, it wasn't Moses. It was Aaron.

 

[Speak2Me]

And God has never used "cards" before. And if the one He might be seeking through this weird thing in 2017 comes to Him, it might never happen again. When did you get elected to declare when and how God does things?

Since when does God copy the devil? Since God has a plan & purpose for everything, tell me what His purpose is in using these cards when He proved in scripture He mostly uses SAINTS?

We are God's ambassadors. It's our job, not a deck of cards.

BTW, when did you get elected to stand up for these false doctrines & practices?

And, WHO did your electing?

 

[Nehemiah6]

What is majorly interesting and telling about this thread is you don't have to be anything like the OP has posted in order to be on the "bad list". You don't even have to suck graves. You can just be Christians who don't agree with some here and you will be vehemently spoken against.,warned about and accused exactly the same as the people falling down and looking palsied on the floor in the video posted on this thread.

For that reason alone I would recommend you do your own research and not judge based on threads like this.

This is rich coming from someone who regularly and unabashedly posts false doctrine from false teachers. Did you do some serious Bible research before endorsing Joseph Prince, Paul Ellis, and all the rest of those who deliberately mislead Christians?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

it should be noted that at first people were like 'oh no Bethel would never do that'

then, when it is illustrated that they would in fact do it, or allow a teacher on staff to not only practice it, but teach her students to do the same and then set up in the welcome section of the church, it's all oh who are you to judge

but it's never really been about Bethel actually...they have pretty much been off the rails long before this

it is about occult practices that are becoming accepted by those who should expose and refute them

so now we have a couple of folks defending the use of these occult cards as a Christian 'ministry'

I think we are actually seeing how deception works right in this thread

Bereans

be one

 

[joaniemarie]

This is rich coming from someone who regularly and unabashedly posts false doctrine from false teachers. Did you do some serious Bible research before endorsing Joseph Prince, Paul Ellis, and all the rest of those who deliberately mislead Christians?

That's the thing Nehemiah., I don't post false doctrine. But I DO post the truth 'unabashedly'

In fact it is you who need to study before bashing people. You need to take some time and study to know what is false and what is true. But sadly you won't and you will continue to condemn other Christians who don't agree with everything you do.

 

[Lancelot]

Pulpit and Pen has a reputation for this kind of reporting. They want to connect this to Bethel because they don't agree with Bethel's theology. I would be very surprised to find that the leadership at Bethel condones this in any way. It's just a guilt-by-association ploy IMO.

 

[Lancelot]

Okay, I did some research and discovered that Kris Vallotton, the senior associate pastor of Bethel, released a statement that read:

Someone told me there is an article stating that some Christians are now using “Christian Tarot Cards” (apparently called “Destiny Cards”), and that some people associated with Bethel were doing so.This is insane! First of all, whoever is doing this needs to repent and stop the craziness in the “name of reaching people for Christ.” Secondly, Bethel has graduated 10,000 students, has 9000 people in their congregation and a couple million followers. For some reason when some “Christian” does something crazy, the media often want to blame the church they go to or the podcast they listen to etc…guilt by association. Believers are called to love the broken so we are privileged to have them named among us. But broken people often act broken. Assigning their broken condition to the people loving on them is like blaming doctors for their patients sickness!
There are also people who listen to our teaching and create strange and/or anti-biblical applications in our name. For example, people hear my teaching about God raising up Daniel’s who was numbered among the sorcerers, to reach the Nebuchadnezzar‘s of our day; and then they go out in the name of “Kris” and act like sorcerers! Yikes man…use your brain! That’s not what I said nor am I okay with it.
Loving people creatively is exciting but we need wisdom as we move into the cesspool called “the world”. Please stop the craziness!

Then he removed that post and offered this one after discussing it with the parties involved:

Let’s be clear: 1- I was speaking against Tarot cards and their use, which I am still against.

2- I was addressing people who were accusing Bethel taking part in this practice. We don’t and never have been been apart of this. So that’s still true!


3- The people who were named in the article, were never named in the people’s accusations of us (that I knew of at the time) nor did I name anyone in my posts.


4- The article turned out to be fake news against great people who love God, don’t use Tarot cards and lead 1000s of people who do, to Christ.


So yes, I retract any implication I made against them for obvious reasons.

https://www.facebook.com/kvministries

Apparently this is a ministry that evangelizes at New Age festivals with a booth and artistic cards that are clearly not tarot cards. You might question their methods but in no way is Bethel promoting the use of tarot cards here. As I suspected, Pulpit and Pen jumped to conclusions out of religious prejudice.

 

[Willie-T]

This is rich coming from someone who regularly and unabashedly posts false doctrine from false teachers. Did you do some serious Bible research before endorsing Joseph Prince, Paul Ellis, and all the rest of those who deliberately mislead Christians?

BTW,6........ "Serious Bible research" doesn't mean just finding a site constructed by someone else who also hates a certain preacher or practice, then just copying their rhetoric. It means going to the Bible and finding that although you might not agree with your target's interpretation, by God, they actually DID come to their conclusions by reading the exact words of the Bible.

I have found none of these supposed "False Teachers" who just invented a doctrine out of thin air. I may not see eye-to-eye with how they look at the verses they derive their doctrine from, but I cannot claim they did not take it directly from the same Bible you or I read. I asked another poster if they knew where this so-called heretical notion of "Imparting" came from. Do you?

 

[Willie-T]

it should be noted that at first people were like 'oh no Bethel would never do that'

then, when it is illustrated that they would in fact do it, or allow a teacher on staff to not only practice it, but teach her students to do the same and then set up in the welcome section of the church, it's all oh who are you to judge

but it's never really been about Bethel actually...they have pretty much been off the rails long before this

it is about occult practices that are becoming accepted by those who should expose and refute them

so now we have a couple of folks defending the use of these occult cards as a Christian 'ministry'

I think we are actually seeing how deception works right in this thread

Bereans

be one

I am not endorsing the use of these cards. It is not something I would ever do. What I AM standing against is the damning of people who are probably doing far more to reach the lost than their prosecutors. Sure we might be more comfortable if they stuck with the traditional methods we use.... methods that, historically, have seldom ever reached a certain segment of our population.... but that is not what they feel they are being led to continue ineffectively doing.

I repeat (and suggest you go read) Gamaliel's admonishment to the then-ruling Religious Powers who felt such animosity and hatred that they resorted to physically beating the Apostles........ BECAUSE they KNEW that only they understood the ways God was allowed to seek the lost. "You might be fighting against God!"

Just because I may not like what I see them doing.......... actually means very little in the eyes of God.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Pulpit and Pen has a reputation for this kind of reporting. They want to connect this to Bethel because they don't agree with Bethel's theology. I would be very surprised to find that the leadership at Bethel condones this in any way. It's just a guilt-by-association ploy IMO.

no no

they have a reputation for calling out the heresies and false teachers and prophets

as far as Bethel goes, there is no false reporting

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I am not endorsing the use of these cards. It is not something I would ever do. What I AM standing against is the damning of people who are probably doing far more to reach the lost than their prosecutors. Sure we might be more comfortable if they stuck with the traditional methods we use.... methods that, historically, have seldom ever reached a certain segment of our population.... but that is not what they feel they are being led to continue ineffectively doing.

I repeat (and suggest you go read) Gamaliel's admonishment to the then-ruling Religious Powers who felt such animosity and hatred that they resorted to physically beating the Apostles........ BECAUSE they KNEW that only they understood the ways God was allowed to seek the lost. "You might be fighting against God!"

Just because I may not like what I see them doing.......... actually means very little in the eyes of God.

no one is fighting against God

here's a little secret

I spent 7 years in a ministry like this

7 years

I cannot thank my God enough that I was delivered from it because it took deliverance

thankfully, everyone does not have to have that kind of experience if they will pay attention to their Bibles, study them and realize God does not operate the way they are doing at NAR institutions in general

no need to pick on Bethel and I didn't mean for this thread to turn out that way, but I understand there are folks here that will stick up for anything because if they didn't, it would mean they need to confess their involvement in the occultic practices and turn to the truth

now if you don't participate? that's actually good news

however, I have no idea why you think you need to somehow think it might be God

yesterday you stated that no one can know if it is God or not and that statement, is in DIRECT opposition to what the word says

if I were to start writing about what I have seen and experienced, you might tell me I am lying

you go ahead and defend this occultic practice all you want and I will do the opposite

nothing against you personally ... I actually give 2 hoots which is why I began the thread...

I am sure you give 2 hoots also

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I dunno

should this thread be renamed 'Willie's Defense of What Might be God but Really isn't'?

seriously...who believes we can never know if something is of God or not?

I have a good number of Bibles in different translations and the entire library on board with the internet and not one single Bible translation states we cannot know if God is in something or not

so frustrating to try to get people who want to believe everything is God just because they do something in God's name, to see that it isn't God. when people are deceived, they just don't see it

and by that I mean those who are involved in the NAR movement

 

[Adstar]

Called “Destiny Reading Cards,” charismatics – some associated with Bethel Church in Redding, California – are engaging in what is essentially tarot card reading.

They call it a “reading” and refer to the program as “Christalignment.” They don’t do “predictions,” but they will help empower your destiny rather than control it. Using what is essentially tarot cards, they do a “reading” about relations, jobs and issues to help people “make better decisions in the future.”

article

so it seems anything goes Bethel is at it again

just when you think you have heard it all.....

wicca in the church.. How far they have fallen away from the Gospel..

 

[Willie-T]

I dunno

should this thread be renamed 'Willie's Defense of What Might be God but Really isn't'?

seriously...who believes we can never know if something is of God or not?

I have a good number of Bibles in different translations and the entire library on board with the internet and not one single Bible translation states we cannot know if God is in something or not

so frustrating to try to get people who want to believe everything is God just because they do something in God's name

The Bible clearly says that His ways are higher than our ways, and that we cannot decide how He is going to do something. So, why do you keep insisting you know what methods God will use to reach people caught by various things?

 

[kaylagrl]

no one is fighting against God

here's a little secret

I spent 7 years in a ministry like this

7 years

I cannot thank my God enough that I was delivered from it because it took deliverance

thankfully, everyone does not have to have that kind of experience if they will pay attention to their Bibles, study them and realize God does not operate the way they are doing at NAR institutions in general

no need to pick on Bethel and I didn't mean for this thread to turn out that way, but I understand there are folks here that will stick up for anything because if they didn't, it would mean they need to confess their involvement in the occultic practices and turn to the truth

now if you don't participate? that's actually good news

however, I have no idea why you think you need to somehow think it might be God

yesterday you stated that no one can know if it is God or not and that statement, is in DIRECT opposition to what the word says

if I were to start writing about what I have seen and experienced, you might tell me I am lying

you go ahead and defend this occultic practice all you want and I will do the opposite

nothing against you personally ... I actually give 2 hoots which is why I began the thread...

I am sure you give 2 hoots also

Yep,when you're in ministry you see some odd things.I was in a church in Maine,no offence to the state,and met some of the weirdest folk Id ever met. This "pastor" would take the women of the church and go pray in a graveyard. He'd also get them in a room and turn out the lights and pray,and he wasn't the type of man Id trust with the lights on,just sayin. And the people of the church let this go on!! He would "preach" for hours,just rambling basically.I got up and walked out. I wasn't about to support his foolishness. Even if I was the special guest. The whole lot of them were weird. That was years and years ago and I still tell people the story.Amazing what people will accept.

I recall when "feathers from the rafters" was all the rage and "gold in the teeth". Someone said to me "you don't believe God can put gold in the teeth"? I said "I believe He can,I just don't see why He would.There are people with cancer,other diseases,financial issues,family issues,excuse me if I don't believe God is concerned about putting gold in your teeth." Seriously,people need to grow up spiritually.

 

[Adstar]

Christian tarot cards / destiny cards


[video=youtube;h2kjND7uycE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2kjND7uycE[/video]

 

[Willie-T]

no no

they have a reputation for calling out the heresies and false teachers and prophets

as far as Bethel goes, there is no false reporting

Then, are you calling Kris Vallotton who is quoted in post #129, a flat-out liar?

 

[Willie-T]

Using the verse "Abstain from the appearance of evil" that way is a laugh. Jesus, Himself, 'appeared' to be a drunkard and a friend of Tax Collectors. And the Apostles "appeared" to be drunk, according to the mockers at Pentecost.

Paul hid out at a prostitute's house.

Jesus openly conversed with the woman at the well, something that was forbidden.

Jesus "appeared" to be a Blasphemer.... so the Religious mockers murdered Him.