Not By Works

[VCO]

If obedience is the outcome of faith, as you say, that makes obedience a required part of faith. You have to stop hearing it as obedience is required to buy salvation. That's not what's being said.

You agree that obedience is the byproduct of the faith that saves but you are unwillingly to admit that makes it required with the faith that saves. You're being contradictory.

NOT BY A LONG SHOT.

Obedience is an ACT OF LOVE FOR GOD.


What part of the verse do you not understand?


John 14:15 (ESV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.


A WHAT PART OF THESE VERSES, DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND EITHER?


Titus 3:4-7 (ESV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Ralph-]

How is it that Matthew 7 and Hebrews 6 can only mean to you people that salvation is by works? How can you not see that they are both saying if you don't have works when Jesus comes back you're not going to be saved? That makes works required for salvation. Just not the way you are only able to understand that.

Why are you only able to see works being required to be saved as trying to earn your salvation? Is it because you have no works and can't admit this hard truth? The Bible says if you do not have works when Jesus comes back you will not be saved. The unfaithful, lawless, unchanged person is showing by their life that they do not have justification apart from works through faith in Christ. That's why the person who has no works will be lost not saved, while the person who does have works will be saved. That's not one trying to win God's approval for salvation. That's one showing by how they live that they have God's approval for salvation through the forgiveness of sin.

 

[Ralph-]

Obedience is an ACT OF LOVE FOR GOD.


What part of the verse do you not understand?


John 14:15 (ESV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

If you don't have works then you show that you don't love Jesus and are not saved. That makes obedience required. Or else you don't love Jesus. If you have no works when Jesus comes back you will be turned away not saved. That makes works required to be saved when he comes back.

 

[dcontroversal]

If you don't have works then you show that you don't love Jesus and are not saved. That makes obedience required. Or else you don't love Jesus. If you have no works when Jesus comes back you will be turned away not saved. That makes works required to be saved when he comes back.

You sure sound like Fran.........and salvation is by faith...NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST

 

[shrume]

If you don't have works then you show that you don't love Jesus and are not saved. That makes obedience required. Or else you don't love Jesus. If you have no works when Jesus comes back you will be turned away not saved. That makes works required to be saved when he comes back.

Rom 6:
23) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eph 2:
8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Rom 10:
9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Cor 3:
13) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14) If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[stonesoffire]

You sure sound like Fran.........and salvation is by faith...NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST

yes! Was thinking the same thing.

 

[stonesoffire]

If you don't have works then you show that you don't love Jesus and are not saved. That makes obedience required. Or else you don't love Jesus. If you have no works when Jesus comes back you will be turned away not saved. That makes works required to be saved when he comes back.

You would toss aside those who are babe, those who haven't yet received the meat of the Word. Those who are still lambs and haven't yet matured in Sonship. There's the dividing line. Jesus won't. That's why He is God and we are not. We don't always see things clear, but He's above....if we rest...sit down with Him in the heavenly realms....then we too begin to see as He sees.

Thats why you say obedience, works. You haven't yet come to His rest. So keep on laboring to get there. Eventually you'll get tired and cry out for His rest.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To be saved in Matthew 7 at Christ's return you have to not be lawless. That makes works required to be saved when Christ returns.

In Hebrews 6, to not be burned up in the end you have to have works. That makes works required to be saved when Christ returns.

In Matthew 18, if you did not do righteous things you will go to the left and into the lake of fire, not saved when Christ returns.

So how can you say that works are not required to be saved?

well thank you. Thanks for proving you teach salvation by works. Not by grace.

Of course they are required to be saved. They don't earn salvation. They are not required that way. They are required because they are what accompanies salvation according to Hebrews. They show you have salvation. You can not be saved with only faith, because as even you say, faith alone is not real faith. The faith that will save you when Jesus comes back is the faith that works. That makes works required for salvation. You have to have works when Jesus comes back or you will not be saved because it is unsaved people who don't have works.

You can not mix the two. Either works are required and we are saved by works. Or we are saved by faith, and works are the end result.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen sister.....Jesus begins and finishes his work of faith in us.....so glad you have not fallen for this "salvation can be lost or forfeited crap"..........

You sure sound like Fran.........and salvation is by faith...NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST

Did not she and that other guy make up Ralph’s name and make his profile. I am pretty sure it is one of the two.

 

[VCO]

If you don't have works then you show that you don't love Jesus and are not saved. That makes obedience required. Or else you don't love Jesus. If you have no works when Jesus comes back you will be turned away not saved. That makes works required to be saved when he comes back.

You are saved while you are still enemies of GOD. THEREFORE IT IS NOT PART OF SALVATION.


Romans 5:8-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have now received this reconciliation through Him.


NOW what does scripture say about love for GOD?


1 John 4:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love because He first loved us.


When was that love first placed in our Hearts?


Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


You do not get to claim any of the Credit for the LOVE that GOD PLACE IN YOUR HEARTS.


Romans 9:15-16 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For He tells Moses: I will show mercy to whom I will show mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] So then it does not depend on human will or effort but on God who shows mercy.


Your bragging is in VAIN.

 

[Bicycleman]

I agree with all the folks, who say works won't get you into heaven, but the Jehova Witness and Catholics will disagree. i have a running debate with a Catholic right now over the works issue. He even thinks that because Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus are good people, they will go to heaven.

 

[Bicycleman]

If you don't have works then you show that you don't love Jesus and are not saved. That makes obedience required. Or else you don't love Jesus. If you have no works when Jesus comes back you will be turned away not saved. That makes works required to be saved when he comes back.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. If you do not accept Christ as your savior and become born again, then you are not Christian. Works alone won't save your soul.

 

[Ralph-]

Thats why you say obedience, works. You haven't yet come to His rest. So keep on laboring to get there. Eventually you'll get tired and cry out for His rest.

So I should keep being patient, long suffering, kind, gentle, and peaceable, the things I couldn't do before I was saved, so that I'll get tired and cry out for God to make me patient, long suffering, kind, gentle, and peaceable?

 

[Ralph-]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. If you do not accept Christ as your savior and become born again, then you are not Christian. Works alone won't save your soul.

You're right. You do not understand what I'm saying.

In Matthew 7, Jesus talks about the people he will turn away because they were lawless. That means you have to be obedient or else He will turn you away when He comes back. That doesn't mean your obedient works will earn his acceptance. Your obedient works show that you have the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works. So as you can see, this has nothing to do with works saving you. People who have faith have works and are saved. People who don't have works don't have faith and are not saved.

 

[dcontroversal]

well thank you. Thanks for proving you teach salvation by works. Not by grace.



You can not mix the two. Either works are required and we are saved by works. Or we are saved by faith, and works are the end result.

Option two is what the bible teaches...saved by faith alone and the by product being fruit or works....from 1 piece to innumerable pieces irrelevant... and those who have believed unto salvation have already done the work of the Heavenly Father and have obeyed the gospel!

 

[dcontroversal]

Did not she and that other guy make up Ralph’s name and make his profile. I am pretty sure it is one of the two.

I agree fully.......

 

[Ralph-]

1 Cor 3:
13) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14) If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Everyone on both sides has been saying saved people WILL have works. How is it now that the person with no works is a saved person? If you interpret this passage as meaning you don't have to have works with your faith to be saved when Jesus comes back then you make this part of the the Bible contradict Hebrews 6, Matthew 18, Romans 8, and Matthew 7. All those parts say the person who doesn't have works won't be saved.

 

[dcontroversal]

I agree with all the folks, who say works won't get you into heaven, but the Jehova Witness and Catholics will disagree. i have a running debate with a Catholic right now over the works issue. He even thinks that because Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus are good people, they will go to heaven.

There is but one gospel that saves a man and it goes like this...

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE......the rest are false gospels with no power and all, regardless of color, creed, name, status etc. that leave this world without believing the one true gospel and acknowledging Jesus by faith will learn the meaning of snap, crackle and pop

 

[Ralph-]

well thank you. Thanks for proving you teach salvation by works. Not by grace.



You can not mix the two. Either works are required and we are saved by works. Or we are saved by faith, and works are the end result.

What is required is faith. Even you say that faith WILL work, or else it's not really faith. That makes works required to be with your faith, or else it isn't real faith and you won't be saved when Jesus comes back. We knew that anyway. That's what the Bible says. People who don't have works of obedience when he comes back will not be saved. The Matthew 7 people will be turned away because they are lawless. The Hebrews 6 people will be burned because they are barren of fruit. And the Matthew 18 people will be burned up because they have no works of love for Jesus. But everyone on your side wants to say that is wrong and you do NOT need works with your faith to be saved when Jesus comes back.

 

[dcontroversal]

You're right. You do not understand what I'm saying.

In Matthew 7, Jesus talks about the people he will turn away because they were lawless. That means you have to be obedient or else He will turn you away when He comes back. That doesn't mean your obedient works will earn his acceptance. Your obedient works show that you have the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works. So as you can see, this has nothing to do with works saving you. People who have faith have works and are saved. People who don't have works don't have faith and are not saved.

Yep....Fran could not get over Matthew 7 and the root being biblical salvation.....the one's cast which are plenteous in number, claimed to know JESUS and put their trust into the works done in his name........WORKS DO NOT SAVE OR KEEP SAVED.....end of story!