What is the proper salary for a pastor?

[Depleted]

Over here vicars of the main denomination have the job until they retire.
They normally spend a few years in one parish then are moved on to the next.
If they leave the pension payments stop and they draw the pension when they eventually retire.

The church I go to is not post of main denominations over here.

We have a board of trustees who set the salary and pension payments.
Anything paid outside of that, like expenses are noted in the accounts.

Salary and pension payments are not, but the figures are freely available on request
Also we have had leaders who have had books published and have been happy for the royalties to be paid to the local church or to the central church that oversees the local churches.

I do the accounts for a small independent church.

The leader is paid nothing. Last year they gave him a gift of £500.
I have to note that in the accounts.

Do there is some regulatory control.

Ah! The difference. Over here, the nondenoms, or even some of the denoms (AG for example) can, and do, fire pastors. Sometimes they fire for disagreements. Sometimes they fire because they found a hotshot pastor willing to take the job. And sometimes, (like in my denom), they're fired for speaking against doctrine... or just out-and-out ineptness. (And you have to be truly inept, as in can't figure out how to do a sermon.)

I've known a few middle-aged pastors who just lost their jobs, and their homes, with 90 days to get out of the church's house. And they were the pastor for 10-25 years at the same church.

 

[Willie-T]

Taxes? are you guys not a 501 3c?

It's not a complete free ride. Income from non-ministerial services are taxable and churches are required to withhold Federal and state income tax from this non-exempt income. They are also required to withhold employee's share of Social Security and Medicare taxes under FICA, and pay the employer's share for the non-exempt income.

 

[Depleted]

OK, you can have higher apartment prices. You will have also more expensive hospital bills.

According to wiki, average salary in the USA is 60,154. I think its strange if a servant of God wants to have 10x more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage

See the whole picture. Look at how much it cost to live in NYC, even Harlem. And then compare it to living in Tennessee.

I honestly think $60,000 is fair here in Philly. (Especially, if they get a house too.) Not so much if they lived even halfway between Philly and NYC.

Then again, I haven't worked since 1999, so I'm not the one to get the latest figures on COL. (My $45,000 number came from our government's number a few years ago. Don't know if it jumped that much, or just difference sources.)

 

[BillG]

Of course money in the church is a sensitive issue. When we were in school we rented a nice home in the last year or so of schooling. After graduation and ordination we bought a house and stayed in the church and continued ministry there.

One woman in the church had a huge issue with us buying a house, we were "getting too big for our britches" she says, "awful fancy" "materialistic." Then I told her, guess what, the house we rented was more per month, and the money isn't going down the drain. She never whined when we rented the house, and it was a nicer and newer home than the one we bought.

People can be petty and easily offended, especially professing Christians.

It's the same over here with housing.
We have a modest 3 bedroom house (although the estate agents call it 4 because we have a little study room that just about fits a single bed and nothing more)

If people want to rent a house the same as ours then they have to pay 2.5 what we are paying.

I don't get why people feel it's wrong fur church leaders to own a house or a decent car.

With regards to cars. Surely it's better to have a decent car that won't break down because it's a banger.
Driving a car that will not break down when woken up in the middle of the night to go minister.

 

[Willie-T]

I have never had a car and I live in 36m2 apartment

But! I bought new Greek New Testament for myself this week, for 35 euros. What a great Christmas!

My wife and I each drove 100 to 300 miles a week in our jobs. That's as much as 600 miles a week, combined. In many places in the US, it is almost impossible to earn a living without a car.

 

[Depleted]

Paul says lots, Messiah says do it for free:

1 Corinthians 9:14, "In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel."


1 Timothy 5:17-18, “Elders who handle their duties well should be considered worthy of double compensation, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, “You must not muzzle an ox while it is treading out grain,” and “A worker deserves his pay.”


1 Corinthians 9:11-12, “If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap material benefits from you? If others enjoy this right over you, don’t we have a stronger claim? But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we tolerate everything in order not to put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of the Messiah.”


Matthew 10:7-8, “As you go, proclaim, ‘The kingdom of heaven is near! Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, drive out demons. Without payment you have received; without payment you are to give.”

Are you and Dan friends? If not, I think the two of you ought to be friends, 'cuz you both came up with either the same verses or verses that agree with each other.

So, in case you two haven't met yet...Dan? This is Hiz. Hiz, that's Dan. Talk. You two will like each other. lol

That said, while I agree to a certain extent, something has changed over the millennium. Back in those days, they were going out on missionary work. Traveling about a lot. Nowadays pastors tend to pastor one church locally and don't travel around as much.

Missionaries really shouldn't count on getting paid from the locals, because what are they living on before the locals become born again and then join with them?

But pastors stay in one place, and usually aren't the one starting the church, so they can count (or should be able to anyway) on support. So, do you still think they shouldn't get paid anything?

 

[Depleted]

If a church has many poor people who cannot even afford a family normal living and if this church also has a pastor who has more than average wage from the members, something is horribly wrong.

Right. Because the members of the church should be helping that family.

 

[Willie-T]

As little as we make, we have been debt-free for more than 20 years, and we can give a lot more money than I will admit...... because we both learned how to stretch our money years ago.

Right now, we are taking a course in finances, to be able to better help younger people who don't seem to have the foggiest idea of how to manage money. What we are hearing in that class from these kids is, truthfully, totally shocking to us. If I didn't hear it with my own ears, I wouldn't believe ANYONE could be so careless with their money.

 

[Depleted]

The translation of the 9th AD Old Testament into 21st AD English is not a historical evidence of what happened 2000 BCE, IMHO.

It may or may not be exact.

Try 100 AD translation then!

 

[Depleted]

Are you not a member of the Salvation Army?

Oh, you really need to look up Salvation Army. lol

 

[trofimus]

My wife and I each drove 100 to 300 miles a week in our jobs. That's as much as 600 miles a week, combined. In many places in the US, it is almost impossible to earn a living without a car.

I know, its different in here.

There are no huge residence quarters, so we can actually walk everywhere, shops and companies are near.

And for long distances, there is a good public transport, trains or buses.

So, life in Europe can be much more economical.

 

[trofimus]

Try 100 AD translation then!

I am fully satisfied with the idea that "thousand" can also mean "chief".

 

[trofimus]

Oh, you really need to look up Salvation Army. lol

Why? I was there once, to see if it is a church I would like to attend... but no.

 

[Susanna]

I know, its different in here.

There are no huge residence quarters, so we can actually walk everywhere, shops and companies are near.

And for long distances, there is a good public transport, trains or buses.

So, the life in Europe can be much more economical.

It's a lot of that in Houston as well, but I prefer my car lol.

 

[Willie-T]

Why? I was there once, to see if it is a church I would like to attend... but no.

Over here, the Salvation Army is usually known as a giant thrift shop that sells donated used items. They have some actual churches, but few people know about them. They visit a lot of jails.

 

[Willie-T]

It's a lot of that in Houston as well, but I prefer my car lol.

Our closest store is about two miles away. An hour round trip, walking.

 

[BillG]

I know, its different in here.

There are no huge residence quarters, so we can actually walk everywhere, shops and companies are near.

And for long distances, there is a good public transport, trains or buses.

So, the life in Europe can be much more economical.

In the UK public transport can cost more than driving.
It's not just public transport but also parking.

My wife leads up the young ministry in our church.
Our church is 5 miles away.

If she drives and parks for each hour she works 50% of her hourly rate is paid on parking.

 

[Ugly]

One of my old pastors made a salary st church. I'm not sure of the amount but I suspect it was reasonable but not excessive. He also had a side business he owned doing indoor landscaping for millionaires. He made pretty good money off of that. But he had around 10 kids, so he wasn't exactly rich in the end haha.
Sadly some people came to the church and a fee months later accused him, during service in front of the entire congregation, of stealing money from the church. Despite these people being new, and getting their info from some nameless "prophetess" half the church left. People that had helped build the church building with their own hands and had been under this pastor for over a decade ditched him with one unfounded allegation.

Sadly the man that made the accusation had been a friend of mine years earlier. He had always struck me as an odd guy.

 

[Willie-T]

In the UK public transport can cost more than driving.
It's not just public transport but also parking.

My wife leads up the young ministry in our church.
Our church is 5 miles away.

If she drives and parks for each hour she works 50% of her hourly rate is paid on parking.

Wow!!! And your petrol prices scare me to death. We are paying $2.17 USD right now.

 

[Susanna]

In the UK public transport can cost more than driving.
It's not just public transport but also parking.

My wife leads up the young ministry in our church.
Our church is 5 miles away.

If she drives and parks for each hour she works 50% of her hourly rate is paid on parking.

And you're driving in the left lane.

Lol