Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

[mj007]

You can't blame it on the different doctrines, blame it on people.

People can either choose to focus on the criteria of a doctrine as the defined truth;

Or that the truth is we are to unite, under Jesus Christ, no matter which creed, because at the end of the day, Jesus is at the centre, and loving our neighbour is centre to that.

The command is love.
God is Love.

People more often than not, choose their own ego/intelligence, than they choose to love with the faith that the highest intelligence comes from God, and not them. 'My' doctrine is right, 'yours' is wrong, 'my' religion is right, 'yours' is wrong, 'my' church is right, 'yours' is wrong. While intelligent deduction might conclude some truth in these logics, at the same time they are devoid of love.

From observation, people become more devoid of love with age, and it gets replaced by their own version of 'what love is'. Love is rejecting someone based on x. Love is treating someone mean. Love is giving people the harsh truth. Love is being over-protective. Love is sheltering your kids at home so they can't be in 'the dangerous world' (that you have experienced). But only by being like a child again, that you once were, before you grew an adult mind that fears bad experience and warps it's own makeup, ideology, and perception, can you really change that. This is something Jesus said, in a way that adults don't understand. And because they don't understand it they never try to.

Love is the unifier of the universe, the particle of existence that brings things together. You are either bringing things together or you are breaking things apart, or you believe that you are breaking things apart and saying you are bringing things together by doing so!?

denominational differences in belief creates a branching off of the church, it was never meant to divide into factions over details and small differences, every christian believes in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, that should be enough to bring folks together despite our pride and wanting to holfd to things taught that are incorrect and very provable in scripture. we should be able to remain together in spite of those differences, because our common faith is in the same savior.

remember Jesus said of a Kingdom.

mark 3:24 "And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand."


satan uses those kinds of things against people, so through false doctrine, He has divided folks who should be holding tightly together looking for commonalities in Christ, rather than labeling a denomination, or looking for any small difference in doctrine. i really believe God is Good and His will is that we wouls all repent and be saved so im not thinking Hes looking for a technicality to convict us by whi9ch particular church body we attend, or How exactly we pray or worship ect.... chaos and arguments are a device of the enemy working to divide the church because it weakens us and creates things like bitterness, arguing, slander and other things....

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello followJesus,

denominational differences in belief creates a branching off of the church, it was never meant to divide into factions over details and small differences, every christian believes in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, that should be enough to bring folks together despite our pride and wanting to hold to things taught that are incorrect and very provable in scripture. we should be able to remain together in spite of those differences, because our common faith is in the same savior.

So, where does one draw the line? What constitutes a false teaching?

As for Roman Catholicism, it is the most deceptive religious system on the planet, hiding right out in plain site. She is not called "the mother of prostitutes" for nothing. Within her can be found most of the pagan practices that stemmed from Babylon. For example, after Constantine had deemed Christianity as the official religion of Rome, all of the pagan practices were just relabeled.

Queen of heaven worship was transposed upon Mary and mother and son worship was overlaid upon Mary and Jesus.

The pantheon of god's that were being worshiped in Rome was just diverted to praying to the saints.

Then there is what Rome did to the institution of breaking bread, which represents Christ's body that was broken for us and partaking of the cup, which represents his blood that was shed for the sins of many. They took those elements and turned it into the Eucharist which says that the priests call Christ down out of heaven where he enters the Eucharist where transubstantiation takes place, so that the partaker is eating the literal flesh and blood of the Lord. By the way, according to Roman dogma, anyone who says that this is just symbolic as representing the Lord's body and blood and not literal, let him be anathema.

An how about the teaching of Purgatory? According to the RCC, at the time of death every Catholic must enter into Purgatory to purge off sins through fire that were not atoned for while alive, which by the way is no where taught in scripture. The length of time in Purgatory differs depending on the individuals sins. What a slap in the face to Jesus who paid the penalty for all sin and who says that all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven. And that if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanses us of all unrighteousness.

Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God's holy people. For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

 

[stand2]

Very well put.

 

[beastslayer1970]

Satan=impersonating God

The Beast=impersonating Jesus Christ

The False Prophet=impersonating the Holy Spirit"


the Dragon, satan, Gives His power and authority to the Beast and the beast is made in His image as Jesus is the express image of God and God Gave Him all power and authority..... it is an mock for sure. the beast though is for certain not a single man, it is explained well in revelation. satan is a spirit, a heavenly being like an angel and all angels are spirits. the Beast is comprised of a political power comprised of 8 Kings, the eigth being the beast Like a Lamb who speaks as a dragon. if you look in daniel and revelation its pretty extensively explained


revelation 12:3 " And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
revelation 13 " And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."


revelation 17 " So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.


The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast."


the eighth King, is the One man , the beast with seven Heads is comprised of eighteen Kings including eight king and seven Kingdoms.

seven Kings, 5 already had ruled, one was in power and one was to come after John saw the vision. and then there are ten future Kings also which made up the ten horns.

All that said, you still have 1 beast. 10 kingdoms give their power to one beast.

One kingdom will be a single unified church. There is coming a time when Protestant,, Reformed and Catholic will unite. The NAR movement and many Charis-maniac evangelicals are already paving the way for this to happen. The USA evangelicals are a power unto themselves.

Another Kingdom might be a united terrorist regime, that includes China, North Korea, Russia, ISIS, Hams , Hezebollah, etc.

Another Kingdom might be a united tech/Media / Arts & Entertainment . I believe the false prophet will rise out of this kingdom.

Another Kingdom will be a united world wide financial market-think Bitcoin, Ethereum and wall street, and all world finance but on a unified larger scale.

We will see the 7 mountain mandate morph into 10 kingdoms, it is already happening as we speak.

This is why suggesting the beast and/or false prophet is a movement or church cannot be true.

 

[oldethennew]

walk the walk, talk the talk, the proof is in the putting forth...........it's where our
heads and hearts are in unity with our Saviour and His Words and Ways for us to follow,
and not a mere sinful man's ways and words...

 

[Bladerunner]

All that said, you still have 1 beast. 10 kingdoms give their power to one beast.

One kingdom will be a single unified church. There is coming a time when Protestant,, Reformed and Catholic will unite. The NAR movement and many Charis-maniac evangelicals are already paving the way for this to happen. The USA evangelicals are a power unto themselves.

Another Kingdom might be a united terrorist regime, that includes China, North Korea, Russia, ISIS, Hams , Hezebollah, etc.

Another Kingdom might be a united tech/Media / Arts & Entertainment . I believe the false prophet will rise out of this kingdom.

Another Kingdom will be a united world wide financial market-think Bitcoin, Ethereum and wall street, and all world finance but on a unified larger scale.

We will see the 7 mountain mandate morph into 10 kingdoms, it is already happening as we speak.

This is why suggesting the beast and/or false prophet is a movement or church cannot be true.

The false Prophet will be trying to get everyone in the world to believe in a one world religion. He will be riding the anti-christ back in order to get this done. The False Prophet is likely to be AS the POPE. Rem. There is a prophecy that this Pope is the last one.

I am not dogmatic about this but it is very pausible. Again, I suggest yoiu read 'The Woman Rides the Beast 'by David Hunt. It is good reading and tells you things you maybe did not want to know!

 

[followjesus]

You can't blame it on the different doctrines, blame it on people.

People can either choose to focus on the criteria of a doctrine as the defined truth;

Or that the truth is we are to unite, under Jesus Christ, no matter which creed, because at the end of the day, Jesus is at the centre, and loving our neighbour is centre to that.

The command is love.
God is Love.

People more often than not, choose their own ego/intelligence, than they choose to love with the faith that the highest intelligence comes from God, and not them. 'My' doctrine is right, 'yours' is wrong, 'my' religion is right, 'yours' is wrong, 'my' church is right, 'yours' is wrong. While intelligent deduction might conclude some truth in these logics, at the same time they are devoid of love.

From observation, people become more devoid of love with age, and it gets replaced by their own version of 'what love is'. Love is rejecting someone based on x. Love is treating someone mean. Love is giving people the harsh truth. Love is being over-protective. Love is sheltering your kids at home so they can't be in 'the dangerous world' (that you have experienced). But only by being like a child again, that you once were, before you grew an adult mind that fears bad experience and warps it's own makeup, ideology, and perception, can you really change that. This is something Jesus said, in a way that adults don't understand. And because they don't understand it they never try to.

Love is the unifier of the universe, the particle of existence that brings things together. You are either bringing things together or you are breaking things apart, or you believe that you are breaking things apart and saying you are bringing things together by doing so!?

You can't blame it on the different doctrines, blame it on people."

because you are not looking at the fact that false doctrine affects the people, Leads them astray lol just Like in the ot, just like in the garden false doctrines destroy people from within the mind, you cant seperate the people, from what they believe....it shaoes thier mind and Heart and thats where the actions come from doctrine is life and death.

2 peter 2"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.


it is infact the doctrines that create the false beliefs in thier minds is the thing. people hear the word doctrine, and dont realize it shapes the way we think and believe. it is the doctrine just as it was in Eden, its the seed, Mans actions ar the fruit. its the entire issue we believed the wrong word and died. Now gotts believe the right word, and Live. simplicity. false doctrine causes all sorts of issues its the reason the apostles warned so sternly about it.

proper doctrine, creates proper belief, begats children of God. there is a reason Jesus made such a big deal about sticking to His teachings, the proper doctrine is that simple " take my yoke upon you and learn from Me"

that will Keep anyone on course to pray, seek, and do the things He teaches us. its the foundation and true North of Gods Word. false doctrine, is to be rejected and causes corruption in the very people you are so sure to Blame. Cast away the person because they were duped or deceived?...or correct the doctrine, using the Holy scriptures and words of the Lord Jesus Christ and pray for light to shine?


truth saves, deception Kills. an eternal truth be careful what you believe......


2 timothy 4 : I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

1 timothy 6:3 " If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself."


doctrines create People because it creates our true Beliefs, very important to stick with the gospel. and to keep doctrine correct

 

[followjesus]

All that said, you still have 1 beast. 10 kingdoms give their power to one beast.

One kingdom will be a single unified church. There is coming a time when Protestant,, Reformed and Catholic will unite. The NAR movement and many Charis-maniac evangelicals are already paving the way for this to happen. The USA evangelicals are a power unto themselves.

Another Kingdom might be a united terrorist regime, that includes China, North Korea, Russia, ISIS, Hams , Hezebollah, etc.

Another Kingdom might be a united tech/Media / Arts & Entertainment . I believe the false prophet will rise out of this kingdom.

Another Kingdom will be a united world wide financial market-think Bitcoin, Ethereum and wall street, and all world finance but on a unified larger scale.

We will see the 7 mountain mandate morph into 10 kingdoms, it is already happening as we speak.

This is why suggesting the beast and/or false prophet is a movement or church cannot be true.

it really is evident the Beast who was, is not and will come up from the abyss, is an eight King Meaning a man. this is the same who is speaking boldly against the Lord. but the Beast out of the earth, is a compilation over time past present and future Kigs and Kingdoms or "rulers" so really the world today its a political figure that Holds the Power to do the things the Beast does. and ploitical reings such as kingdoms from ancient times also included in the Beast with seven Heads, and they are all connected.


often its Helpful to remember that when we are studying the Bible, Most often the prophecies and things revolve around the world from a perspective of Israel being the central part of the World. the Main enemy of Israel Has been Islam so about 1400 Years or so, from Islam there are many different factions and caliphates that Have formed in the World. thier Movement is to turn the World against Israel and dominate it in the name of allah.

a central cornerstone of thier religion is that Jesus Christ is not the Son of God, that He was Not crucified for Our sins, that He did not die and raise up again. this is central and shows that Islam is not only opposed to Judaism, an even older conflict, but sets itself up as a direct opposite of Jesus Christ and everything christianity teaches about Christ. this 20 yers ago was not as prevelant but now you Have groups in many nations creating chaos and destruction from syria, iraq, iran, egypt, many african countries, across europe, and spreading through the world on a course for western civilization built on christianity.

You have countries Left in ruins, in ashes such as iraq ( ancient babylon) and syria ( damascus ) all of these things are directly because of a holy war between Chritianity, and Islam it is the most glaring issue in the world and has been raging for centuries and No one can solve it.as it spreads through ideology, again, false doctrine of Islam I would have to believe with its growth and exact contradiction to Jesus Christ and the Gospel, Islam would have to be a part of the things unfolding. it is the fastest growing religion on earth, and has several different deadly terrorist orginazations doing these things in gods name. all in the name of Islams god........when you take ino account, that Israel is central to prophecy, and realizr there iw an islamic mosque that sits even Now on Gods temple Mount and inscribed on the ceailing of " the dome of the rockz" ,,,its says " God absolutely Has no Son" among other anti christian things. its too much to not be a main part of the beast and His power of destruction on earth.....

 

[Jackson123]

You can't blame it on the different doctrines, blame it on people.

People can either choose to focus on the criteria of a doctrine as the defined truth;

Or that the truth is we are to unite, under Jesus Christ, no matter which creed, because at the end of the day, Jesus is at the centre, and loving our neighbour is centre to that.

The command is love.
God is Love.

People more often than not, choose their own ego/intelligence, than they choose to love with the faith that the highest intelligence comes from God, and not them. 'My' doctrine is right, 'yours' is wrong, 'my' religion is right, 'yours' is wrong, 'my' church is right, 'yours' is wrong. While intelligent deduction might conclude some truth in these logics, at the same time they are devoid of love.

From observation, people become more devoid of love with age, and it gets replaced by their own version of 'what love is'. Love is rejecting someone based on x. Love is treating someone mean. Love is giving people the harsh truth. Love is being over-protective. Love is sheltering your kids at home so they can't be in 'the dangerous world' (that you have experienced). But only by being like a child again, that you once were, before you grew an adult mind that fears bad experience and warps it's own makeup, ideology, and perception, can you really change that. This is something Jesus said, in a way that adults don't understand. And because they don't understand it they never try to.

Love is the unifier of the universe, the particle of existence that brings things together. You are either bringing things together or you are breaking things apart, or you believe that you are breaking things apart and saying you are bringing things together by doing so!?

yes we command to love, and love is to warn love one who walk toward a chasm to stop and change direction.

to warn catholic to back to the bible is live, prevent them from hell.

to say catholic go to heaven is hatred, but It Will happen that to say catholic go to heaven Will be popular and politically correct.

so hatred or hidden hatred Will be politically correct. What a joke?

 

[Ernie07]

Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved? Please post with scripture.

Hi MessageOfTheCross,

I'm new here so I hope it's not too late to respond. I'll start by stating that I am a devout Catholic so I'll just give you my perspective. Obviously to me, Catholicism is Christian and I would answer that anyone who believes in what I would say are the "core" beliefs in Jesus could be considered Christian namely that He is the Son of God, fully man and fully God, 2nd person in the Trinity, born of the virgin Mary, died on the Cross to save us from our sins, rose from the dead defeating death and sin, and will come again to judge the living and the dead.

In regards to whether Catholics are saved I would answer that all Catholics who believe in Jesus as our Lord, God, and Savior and that those who confess their sins (having no unconfessed mortal sin) will be forgiven and "cleansed from all unrighteousness" will be saved (1 John 1:8-9). Catholics believe that we are saved by grace and that faith in Jesus is necessary for salvation (John 3:36), which is obtained as a gift through grace. No one deserves this grace, but God the Father through His love for us, sent His only Son to die for us and serve as the sacrificial lamb giving us all the hope of one day being with Him in heaven. So yes, Catholics can be saved under these conditions, but can also lose their salvation based on on future unconfessed/unrepentant mortal sin.

I'm not a theologian or formal apologist, but if you have any further questions I'll do my best to answer. Thanks.

-Ernie-

 

[notuptome]

Hi MessageOfTheCross,

I'm new here so I hope it's not too late to respond. I'll start by stating that I am a devout Catholic so I'll just give you my perspective. Obviously to me, Catholicism is Christian and I would answer that anyone who believes in what I would say are the "core" beliefs in Jesus could be considered Christian namely that He is the Son of God, fully man and fully God, 2nd person in the Trinity, born of the virgin Mary, died on the Cross to save us from our sins, rose from the dead defeating death and sin, and will come again to judge the living and the dead.

In regards to whether Catholics are saved I would answer that all Catholics who believe in Jesus as our Lord, God, and Savior and that those who confess their sins (having no unconfessed mortal sin) will be forgiven and "cleansed from all unrighteousness" will be saved (1 John 1:8-9). Catholics believe that we are saved by grace and that faith in Jesus is necessary for salvation (John 3:36), which is obtained as a gift through grace. No one deserves this grace, but God the Father through His love for us, sent His only Son to die for us and serve as the sacrificial lamb giving us all the hope of one day being with Him in heaven. So yes, Catholics can be saved under these conditions, but can also lose their salvation based on on future unconfessed/unrepentant mortal sin.

I'm not a theologian or formal apologist, but if you have any further questions I'll do my best to answer. Thanks.

-Ernie-

Oh Ernie. This is not what you want to say in this forum. Roman Catholic doctrine is expressed to be Christian like but really it does not receive Salvation as a gift but makes it earned by grace received through sacraments and labors of atonement.

What would a Roman Catholic tell someone who asked them what is required to go to heaven?

I will caution you that this subject often gets a little rough but no one here hates Catholics but many have real problems with Catholic doctrine, the pope and Mary worship.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Nehemiah6]

I'm not a theologian or formal apologist, but if you have any further questions I'll do my best to answer. Thanks.-Ernie-

Hi Ernie, and Welcome.

It is good to see that a devout Roman Catholic understands and believes Gospel truth. There is just one little catch. If you open your Catechism you will discover that unless a Catholic includes the sacraments for his salvation, he is not really saved.

 

[Ernie07]

Oh Ernie. This is not what you want to say in this forum. Roman Catholic doctrine is expressed to be Christian like but really it does not receive Salvation as a gift but makes it earned by grace received through sacraments and labors of atonement.

What would a Roman Catholic tell someone who asked them what is required to go to heaven?

I will caution you that this subject often gets a little rough but no one here hates Catholics but many have real problems with Catholic doctrine, the pope and Mary worship.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Hi Roger,

Maybe I'm just naive, but I'm not sure what you mean by "earned by grace". Every time I receive the Eucharist I receive grace but that's because of the grace of God and not by anything I've earned. In fact, I find myself asking God, "why" very often. Why do I have faith? Why was I not born a Muslim, Buddhist, or some other faith? Why have I been so graced and blessed? I'm in awe of God's mercy, forgiveness, love...

What is required to go to heaven? Belief in Jesus and being in a state of grace (no unconfessed mortal sins). I guess I can see what you're saying though about the sacraments where I do need to be baptized, confess my sins, receive the Eucharist...but it's simply because of what the Church says to do...and backed up by the Bible (Baptize 1 Pet 3:21, Confession John 20:21-23, Eucharist John 6:53). Now you might not agree with the Church's interpretation, but why should a Catholic agree with anyone else's? Shouldn't there be a definitive criteria for truth?

In my faith journey there was a time when I had decided to leave the Catholic Church, but in my search for a church to attend it was frustrating because there were so many to choose from each seemingly having a little different version of the truth. So, how could I find the church that Jesus described in MT 16:18...where was the Church He built and protected from the gates of hell that taught The Truth and not a personal version? For me, Jesus' truth is the same today as it was yesterday so all I had to do was find "truths" that spanned from the earliest days of the church to today. Much to my surprise it was the Catholic Church that met this criteria.

There's more to the story, but that's for another time. Thanks for the dialogue.

-Ernie-

 

[Ernie07]

Hi Ernie, and Welcome.

It is good to see that a devout Roman Catholic understands and believes Gospel truth. There is just one little catch. If you open your Catechism you will discover that unless a Catholic includes the sacraments for his salvation, he is not really saved.

Hello,

Hopefully my response to Roger explains my thoughts on this topic. If not, please let me know. Thanks.

-Ernie-

 

[Jackson123]

Hi MessageOfTheCross,

I'm new here so I hope it's not too late to respond. I'll start by stating that I am a devout Catholic so I'll just give you my perspective. Obviously to me, Catholicism is Christian and I would answer that anyone who believes in what I would say are the "core" beliefs in Jesus could be considered Christian namely that He is the Son of God, fully man and fully God, 2nd person in the Trinity, born of the virgin Mary, died on the Cross to save us from our sins, rose from the dead defeating death and sin, and will come again to judge the living and the dead.

In regards to whether Catholics are saved I would answer that all Catholics who believe in Jesus as our Lord, God, and Savior and that those who confess their sins (having no unconfessed mortal sin) will be forgiven and "cleansed from all unrighteousness" will be saved (1 John 1:8-9). Catholics believe that we are saved by grace and that faith in Jesus is necessary for salvation (John 3:36), which is obtained as a gift through grace. No one deserves this grace, but God the Father through His love for us, sent His only Son to die for us and serve as the sacrificial lamb giving us all the hope of one day being with Him in heaven. So yes, Catholics can be saved under these conditions, but can also lose their salvation based on on future unconfessed/unrepentant mortal sin.

I'm not a theologian or formal apologist, but if you have any further questions I'll do my best to answer. Thanks.

-Ernie-

To me Christian must base oN the bible teaching, catholic pray to Mary, It is not bible teaching

 

[Magenta]

In my faith journey there was a time when I had decided to leave the Catholic Church, but in my search for a church to attend it was frustrating because there were so many to choose from each seemingly having a little different version of the truth. So, how could I find the church that Jesus described in MT 16:18...where was the Church He built and protected from the gates of hell that taught The Truth and not a personal version? For me, Jesus' truth is the same today as it was yesterday so all I had to do was find "truths" that spanned from the earliest days of the church to today. Much to my surprise it was the Catholic Church that met this criteria.

The church that Jesus founded did not teach that Mary was a mediator between man and God as the RCC does; in fact, in the church founded by Jesus, He alone is the sole mediator between man and God. The RCC also mandates that you accept the dogmas of Mary's immaculate conception and her bodily ascension to heaven without ever having experienced physical death, both of which have no Biblical basis at all. The RCC claims that Mary was sinless her whole life, and also that she remained a virgin her whole life, again, without any Biblical basis. Jesus had brothers and sisters, and Mary claimed herself in need of a savior, and made sin offerings. According Mary sinlessness and saying it was necessary so that Jesus could have been born sinless really rather borders on blasphemy. The RCC elevates Mary far above any status Jesus gave her.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

I was born into a Catholic family and I can tell you that many Catholics believe in Jesus as Lord and are saved. Don't forget The Holy Spirit indwelling us is a separate event from salvation. A person CAN be saved for a long time before receiving The Holy Spirit.
I think this is one of the main differences, not that Catholics aren't saved but that they practice dead religion rather than relationship. When you've grown up in it you don't know any different. And The Catholic Church doesn't go out of it's way to encourage Bible study.

If the priests taught you the Bible you would see that you don't need the priests

But as a Catholic you certainly recognise God, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I left the Catholic church when I was about 18 because I began to research The Bible for myself and I discovered that many of the Catholic practices were sheer idolatry which was displeasing to God. I was doing religious studies and I wanted to understand the foundation of our faith. I wanted to know the truth. Jesus revealed himself to me personally but I had a basic understanding of his ministry because of growing up Catholic. I did used to believe in him and talk to him as a child.

The biggest problem many Catholics have (to put it in Biblical terms) is that they 'cling to worthless idols'. A lot of people have trouble letting go of the Mother goddess worship and the veneration of saints and statues. Some of them get quite offended if you point out that it is idol worship. Those were the things I began to find repulsive as I got to know The Lord. So I left.
I don't trust The Vatican at all but I think it would be wrong to say that people who are Catholics aren't saved. The Lord will deal with them on an individual basis I'm sure.


Below is the prayer we recited at mass on Sundays. You can see it includes all the necessary articles of Christian faith.

"We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made.

For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried.

On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."


Now apart from the part about "one holy Catholic church" I can't see how that confession of faith isn't Christian.

Thousands recite it every Sunday and thousands believe it even if they don't trust The Pope.
There are definitely some problems there but I think the Catholics are a part of The Body of Christ.
Remember the Letters from The Lord in Revelation. He is still doing a work in us collectively as well as individually.

Pray for them! There are Millions worldwide and The Catholic Church is the only representative of The Christian faith in some poor parts of the world. I know an ex-Hindu girl who heard about Jesus through The Catholics in India. It was the beginning of her search for him.

 

[tourist]

Hi Roger,

Maybe I'm just naive, but I'm not sure what you mean by "earned by grace". Every time I receive the Eucharist I receive grace but that's because of the grace of God and not by anything I've earned. In fact, I find myself asking God, "why" very often. Why do I have faith? Why was I not born a Muslim, Buddhist, or some other faith? Why have I been so graced and blessed? I'm in awe of God's mercy, forgiveness, love...

What is required to go to heaven? Belief in Jesus and being in a state of grace (no unconfessed mortal sins). I guess I can see what you're saying though about the sacraments where I do need to be baptized, confess my sins, receive the Eucharist...but it's simply because of what the Church says to do...and backed up by the Bible (Baptize 1 Pet 3:21, Confession John 20:21-23, Eucharist John 6:53). Now you might not agree with the Church's interpretation, but why should a Catholic agree with anyone else's? Shouldn't there be a definitive criteria for truth?

In my faith journey there was a time when I had decided to leave the Catholic Church, but in my search for a church to attend it was frustrating because there were so many to choose from each seemingly having a little different version of the truth. So, how could I find the church that Jesus described in MT 16:18...where was the Church He built and protected from the gates of hell that taught The Truth and not a personal version? For me, Jesus' truth is the same today as it was yesterday so all I had to do was find "truths" that spanned from the earliest days of the church to today. Much to my surprise it was the Catholic Church that met this criteria.

There's more to the story, but that's for another time. Thanks for the dialogue.

-Ernie-

I was born and raised a Catholic and always had a problem with venial and mortal sins. Scripturally, both are the same as a single sin will condemn you except for the saving grace of Jesus dying on the cross for your sins. Jesus died on the cross for all of your sins that you will ever commit.

Yes, I believe that, from my understanding of scripture that once you are saved you are always saved. It is not necessary to live in fear of losing your salvation if you should die with an unconfessed mortal sin. All sins are mortal sins, biblically there is no such thing as a venial sin.

Another problem area with me was the need to confess your sins to a priest in order to receive forgiveness. I don't find that to be biblical at all, all one has to do is confess your sin to the one that has the authority to forgive sin and that is God. The constant need of going to confession each time you sin has been the source of anxiety and fear for many Catholics and is totally unnecessary.

I never fully understood Holy Communion and the changing of bread and water into the body and blood of Jesus. I asked a priest once (during confession) why is it necessary to receive communion on a regular basis if the Holy Spirit already lives in your heart. Does this mean that you receive an extra portion of the Holy Spirit by performing a mere physical act? He said, "Well my son, it's a mystery".

Apparently he didn't know either. Actually, the confession was in the form of a conversation and I gave him the Reader's Digest version of the sins I had or supposedly committed during the last 25 years. He let me off easy with only a single Our Father for penance.

It has now been another 25 years since my last confession.

 

[tourist]

I was born into a Catholic family and I can tell you that many Catholics believe in Jesus as Lord and are saved. Don't forget The Holy Spirit indwelling us is a separate event from salvation. A person CAN be saved for a long time before receiving The Holy Spirit.
I think this is one of the main differences, not that Catholics aren't saved but that they practice dead religion rather than relationship. When you've grown up in it you don't know any different. And The Catholic Church doesn't go out of it's way to encourage Bible study.

If the priests taught you the Bible you would see that you don't need the priests

But as a Catholic you certainly recognise God, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I left the Catholic church when I was about 18 because I began to research The Bible for myself and I discovered that many of the Catholic practices were sheer idolatry which was displeasing to God. I was doing religious studies and I wanted to understand the foundation of our faith. I wanted to know the truth. Jesus revealed himself to me personally but I had a basic understanding of his ministry because of growing up Catholic. I did used to believe in him and talk to him as a child.

The biggest problem many Catholics have (to put it in Biblical terms) is that they 'cling to worthless idols'. A lot of people have trouble letting go of the Mother goddess worship and the veneration of saints and statues. Some of them get quite offended if you point out that it is idol worship. Those were the things I began to find repulsive as I got to know The Lord. So I left.
I don't trust The Vatican at all but I think it would be wrong to say that people who are Catholics aren't saved. The Lord will deal with them on an individual basis I'm sure.


Below is the prayer we recited at mass on Sundays. You can see it includes all the necessary articles of Christian faith.

"We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made.

For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried.

On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."


Now apart from the part about "one holy Catholic church" I can't see how that confession of faith isn't Christian.

Thousands recite it every Sunday and thousands believe it even if they don't trust The Pope.
There are definitely some problems there but I think the Catholics are a part of The Body of Christ.
Remember the Letters from The Lord in Revelation. He is still doing a work in us collectively as well as individually.

Pray for them! There are Millions worldwide and The Catholic Church is the only representative of The Christian faith in some poor parts of the world. I know an ex-Hindu girl who heard about Jesus through The Catholics in India. It was the beginning of her search for him.

I agree completely with your perception and it appears we both had a similar journey as I was born and raised a Catholic as well. I no longer attend mass but do not fault those that do if it brings them spiritual comfort to do so. As you have pointed out Catholics acknowledge the divinity of Jesus Christ during each mass and the forgiveness of sins by the death of Jesus on the cross. That is what makes them Christian.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Oh Ernie. This is not what you want to say in this forum. Roman Catholic doctrine is expressed to be Christian like but really it does not receive Salvation as a gift but makes it earned by grace received through sacraments and labors of atonement.

What would a Roman Catholic tell someone who asked them what is required to go to heaven?

I will caution you that this subject often gets a little rough but no one here hates Catholics but many have real problems with Catholic doctrine, the pope and Mary worship.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

When I was 9 years old as a Catholic I would have told you I believed I was going to heaven because Jesus paid for my sins with his blood. I understood that as a child. And I understood it from being Catholic. I believed he was real and I prayed to him.