"God's will that none perish".. but "some will perish"?..

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QuickenedByHim

Senior Member
Jun 18, 2017
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Something Ive been wondering.. If God is "NOT willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9), then why will some partake in the second death like Revelation 21:8 says??

If it's God's will that no man perish then why will some men perish? Spirit led thoughts and scripture references please.
 
QuickenedByHim said:
If it's God's will that no man perish then why will some men perish?
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The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, which comes from the world.

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The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. <~ From Romans 1.​
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Because most people chose to do their will instead of God’s will. He wants them to repent and be saved, but most people won’t do the will of God.
 
QuickenedByHim said:
Something Ive been wondering.. If God is "NOT willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9), then why will some partake in the second death like Revelation 21:8 says??

If it's God's will that no man perish then why will some men perish? Spirit led thoughts and scripture references please.
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That is quite simple to understand....When people DO God's Will they will NOT perish....but is so obviously seen from Rom 14 that those who choose for themselves over and above God can not possibly claim His protection !!!
Jesus/Yashua did tell us that only those who DO His Father's Will are set for His Kingdom....so why they think they can reject and ignore GOD is really beyond common sense !!!
The DISobedient, stubborn and INcorrigible are WIcked and have no chance of eternal life with a HOLY God !!!
The Judge is standing at the door...their time to repent is short !!! They are being WArned NOW !!!
 
OneFaith said:
Because most people chose to do their will instead of God’s will. He wants them to repent and be saved, but most people won’t do the will of God.
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I completely agree, what I'm trying to say here thought is that if it is God's WILL that no men perish, then why will some men perish? <If it's not God's will!>
 
QuickenedByHim said:
I completely agree, what I'm trying to say here thought is that if it is God's WILL that no men perish, then why will some men perish? <If it's not God's will!>
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Not every will has the final saying in decision making. Nothing new about that, we do that every day too.
 
OneFaith said:
Because most people chose to do their will instead of God’s will. He wants them to repent and be saved, but most people won’t do the will of God.
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yes and that is why MANY will perish.... already being on the road to DEstruction. Being on a 'slippery slope will make it harder and harder to repent and stop ....NOW is the time to hear GOD !!!
Look at Heb 12v17 and let it be an example !!!
 
Because it’s also God’s Will for mankind to have freewill- to chose to love and obey Him on their own- otherwise we’d be like robots with no choice of our own. But God wants us to make the correct choice.
 
OneFaith said:
Because it’s also God’s Will for mankind to have freewill- to chose to love and obey Him on their own- otherwise we’d be like robots with no choice of our own. But God wants us to make the correct choice.
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Can you define free will?

An alcoholic has no free will, but still, he is not a robot.
 
trofimus said:
Not every will has the final saying in decision making. Nothing new about that, we do that every day too.
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You think you will be saved 'in spite of yourself no matter how wicked ? true, God does make exceptions in RARE cases but is doubtful that any of us rate among the 'great of God.

General rule is we 'choose to obey God for only HE has Life Eternal to give Deut 30v19,20.
 
beta said:
You think you will be saved 'in spite of yourself no matter how wicked ? true, God does make exceptions in RARE cases but is doubtful that any of us rate among the 'great of God.

General rule is we 'choose to obey God for only HE has Life Eternal to give Deut 30v19,20.
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I was saying that the will of God that none will perish is not the decisive one. Other reasons lead Him to allow the death of some.
 
QuickenedByHim said:
Something Ive been wondering.. If God is "NOT willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9), then why will some partake in the second death like Revelation 21:8 says??

If it's God's will that no man perish then why will some men perish? Spirit led thoughts and scripture references please.
Click to expand...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Malachi 2:17, “You have wearied [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]with your words, and you have said, “In what way have we wearied Him?” In that you say, “Everyone who does evil is good in the eyes of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and He is delighting in them,” or, “Where is the Master of right-ruling?”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:31, “But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Mosheh and the prophets, neither would they be persuaded even if one should rise from the dead.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Zechariah 7:11-13, "But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which YHWH of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from YHWH of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says YHWH of hosts!"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Malachi 4:1-4, “For look, the day shall come, burning like a furnace, and all the proud, and every wrongdoer shall be stubble. And the day that shall come shall burn them up,” said [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts, “which leaves to them neither root nor branch. But to you who fear My Name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings. And you shall go out and leap for joy like calves from the stall. And you shall trample the wrongdoers, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,” said [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts. Remember the Torah of Mosheh, My servant, which I commanded him in Ḥorĕḇ for all Yisra’yl – laws and right-rulings.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 6:9-11, “Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the reign of Yah? Do not be deceived. Neither those who whore, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor greedy of gain, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers shall inherit the reign of YHWH. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were set apart, but you were declared right in the Name of the Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and by the Spirit of our Father.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:10, In this the children of Yah and the children of the devil are manifest: Everyone not doing righteousness is not of Yah, neither the one not loving his brother.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3 John 1:11, “Beloved ones, do not imitate the evil, but the good. The one who is doing right is of Yah, but he who is doing evil has not seen Yah.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:3-6, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked.”[/FONT]
 
Because it’s also God’s Will for mankind to have freewill- to chose to love and obey Him on their own- otherwise we’d be like robots with no choice of our own. But God wants us to make the correct choice.

I agree though I am not sure how biblical it is.:)

I completely agree, what I'm trying to say here thought is that if it is God's WILL that no men perish, then why will some men perish? <If it's not God's will!>

Great question! Is our free will stronger than God's? :)
 
FlSnookman7 said:
Because it’s also God’s Will for mankind to have freewill- to chose to love and obey Him on their own- otherwise we’d be like robots with no choice of our own. But God wants us to make the correct choice.

I agree though I am not sure how biblical it is.:)

I completely agree, what I'm trying to say here thought is that if it is God's WILL that no men perish, then why will some men perish? <If it's not God's will!>

Great question! Is our free will stronger than God's? :)
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A truth simply spoken, I think it is Scriptual:

John 7:17, “If anyone chooses to do His desire, he shall know concerning the teaching, whether it is from YHWH, or whether I speak from Myself.”

Genesis 4:7, “If you do right, will it not be accepted? If you don’t do right, sin crouches at the door. Its desire is for you, but you are to rule over it.”

Deuteronomy 30:19-20, “I have called the heavens and the earth as witnesses today against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore you shall choose life, so that you live, both you and your seed, to love יהוה your Strength, to obey His voice, and to cling to Him – for He is your life and the length of your days – to dwell in the land which יהוה swore to your fathers, to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Ya‛aqoḇ, to give them.”

Psalm 9:7-8, “But יהוה abides forever, He is preparing His throne for judgment. And He judges the world in righteousness, He judges the peoples in straightness.”

Malachi 3:16-18, “Then those who reverenced יהוה spoke often one to another, and יהוה paid attention and heard them; and a Book of Remembrance was written in His presence of those who gave reverence to יהוה, and who thought upon His Name; And they will be Mine! says יהוה of hosts. In that day when I make up My jewels I will spare them, as a man spares his own son who serves him. Then you will return, and again discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him who servesיהוה, and him who does not serve Him.”

 [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Philippians 4:13, "I have strength to do all, through Messiah who empowers me.”[/FONT]


Psalms 84:4-6, “Blessed are those who dwell in Your house, They are ever praising You. Selah. Blessed is the man whose strength is in You, Your Highways are in their heart. Passing through the valley of weeping, They make it a fountain; The Teacher also covers it with blessings.”
Psalm 27:13-14, "What if I had not believed To see the goodness of יהוה In the land of the living! Wait on יהוה, be strong, And let Him strengthen your heart! Wait, I say, on יהוה !"

 
QuickenedByHim said:
Something Ive been wondering.. If God is "NOT willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9), then why will some partake in the second death like Revelation 21:8 says??

If it's God's will that no man perish then why will some men perish? Spirit led thoughts and scripture references please.
Click to expand...

You are misisng the important word, any ""SHOULD"" perish... It means Gods mercy is open to all mankind.. But He cannot unjustly save anyone.. It takes people accepting the loving gift of forgiveness that Jesus has secured for all men by atoning for their sins on the cross..
 
QuickenedByHim said:
Something Ive been wondering.. If God is "NOT willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9), then why will some partake in the second death like Revelation 21:8 says??

If it's God's will that no man perish then why will some men perish? Spirit led thoughts and scripture references please.
Click to expand...

God will not force people to recieve his gift.

As he said to Isreal. His will was to take them as a hen, and gather them under his wings, But they were not willing.

Romans 1 says it well. He turned man over to allow them to do what they wanted. But they have no excuse.
 
trofimus said:
Can you define free will?

An alcoholic has no free will, but still, he is not a robot.
Click to expand...

Try this: If an alcoholic has a gun put to his head and he knows the trigger will be pulled if he drinks, that will cure most (but not all) from the alcoholism (as long as the gun is to their head!). The free will is still there in the alcoholic!
 
DJ2 said:
An alcoholic has no free will? Why??

I believe you need to define free will.
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For me, free will/free choice means that we are not forced to do something.

But we are making choices according to our inclinations.

Some inclination can get so strong (in drug addicted, in alcoholics, in too animalistic people), that they are actually forced to do what they do not want to do anymore. Are they robots, then?
 
Chester said:
Try this: If an alcoholic has a gun put to his head and he knows the trigger will be pulled if he drinks, that will cure most (but not all) from the alcoholism (as long as the gun is to their head!). The free will is still there in the alcoholic!
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You think that this is an example of free will, to have a gun put to your head? :) No, its just a stronger inclination to preserve the life than the inclination to drink.

And who knows, how many people would be shot, finally. I would not recommend to do such experiment.

"Free" is nothing in it.
 
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