Not By Works

[Hizikyah]

Faith plus works for or to keep or maintain = false gospel, no power, double cursed <---Galatians 1 and 3

James 2:24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone."

James was one of the 3 main disciples and walke with Yahshua/Jesus daily, and was also His brother, He knew true doctrine well.

Also Jamess (Jacob) letter was a reply to Paul's leter to the Galatians in which Paul questioned the discipleship of James:



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 2:9[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]TS 2009[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So when James, Cephas, and John (who were reputed to be leaders) recognized the grace that had been given me, they gave Barnabas and me the right hand of fellowship, agreeing that we should go to the gentiles and they to the circumcised.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New International Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New Living Translation[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In fact, James, Peter, and John, who were known as pillars of the church, recognized the gift God had given me, and they accepted Barnabas and me as their co-workers. They encouraged us to keep preaching to the Gentiles, while they continued their work with the Jews.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]English Standard Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G1380 δοκέω dokeo (d̮o-ke'-ō) v., 1. to suppose, consider, imagine., 2. (by implication) to seem (truthfully or uncertainly)., 3. (by inference) to presume., 4. (also) to repute or estimate., 5. (by extension) to be of reputation, estimable. {(used only in an alternate in certain tenses)} [a prolonged form of a primary verb, δόκω dốkō of the same meaning], KJV: be accounted, (of own) please(-ure), be of reputation, seem (good), suppose, think, trow, Compare: G1166, G1209, G2309, G3543, G3049, G5426, See also: G1384

[/FONT]Yet Yahshua/Jesus was clear:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 19:28, "Jesus told them, “I tell all of you with certainty, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne in the renewed creation, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, governing the twelve tribes of Israel."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 21:10-14, “He carried me away in the Spirit to a large, high mountain and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven. The glory of God was its radiance, and its light was like a valuable gem, like jasper, as clear as crystal. It had a large, high wall with twelve gates. Twelve angels were at the gates, and the names of the twelve tribes of Israel were written on the gates. There were three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west. The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the lamb were written on them."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:11-15, “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy, let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart. And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood.”[/FONT]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

WHen did I say anything about serving ones self?

All you talk about is law. You never talk about serving anyone!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you do misrepresent when you say lawyer and phaisee.

faith does produce works, I agree.

saying faith + works is not saying faith does not produce works, you are splitting hairs on linguistics, come on really? Ohh you did't put a period you must beleive somethin else! LOL

James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"


James 2:24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone."

James was one of the 3 main disciples and walke with Yahshua/Jesus daily, and was also His brother, He knew true doctrine well.

So James contradicted paul. Thanks, I might as well through my bible out. It is useless.

Which one of these mathematical equestrians is true?

faith plus salvation = works

Faith plus works equals salvation?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Time for some words of wisdom from me.. lol

Faith does produce works. But to do works ONLY for the purpose of getting, keeping, or maintaining salvation is fruitless. Works are NOT necessary to do in order to keep salvation. However, they ARE necessary to do, in order to show our obedience to God. We do them for that reason, and that reason only.

The money you loaned a neighbor won't save you. The driveway you shoveled for a disabled friend won't save you. The clothes you donated to Goodwill will not save you. FAITH AND GRACE is what saves us.. Works do not.

 

[Hizikyah]

Faith plus works for or to keep or maintain = false gospel, no power, double cursed <---Galatians 1 and 3

cursed huh?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 1:8-9, “But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that person be cursed! What we have told you in the past I am now telling you again: If anyone proclaims to you a gospel contrary to what you received, let that person be cursed!”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 3:8-11, “but no one can tame the tongue. It is an uncontrollable evil filled with deadly poison. With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse those who are made in God’s likeness. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. It should not be like this, my brothers! A spring cannot pour both fresh and brackish water from the same opening, can it?”[/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

All you talk about is law. You never talk about serving anyone!

That is not true, people hate the Law so I seek to show what the word says about it, it is the only standard of what love is according to YHWH:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 4:20, “"If someone says, "I love Yah," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love Yah whom he has not seen."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT]

 

[dcontroversal]

James 2:24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone."

James was one of the 3 main disciples and walke with Yahshua/Jesus daily, and was also His brother, He knew true doctrine well.

Also Jamess (Jacob) letter was a reply to Paul's leter to the Galatians in which Paul questioned the discipleship of James:



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 2:9[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]TS 2009[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So when James, Cephas, and John (who were reputed to be leaders) recognized the grace that had been given me, they gave Barnabas and me the right hand of fellowship, agreeing that we should go to the gentiles and they to the circumcised.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New International Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New Living Translation[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In fact, James, Peter, and John, who were known as pillars of the church, recognized the gift God had given me, and they accepted Barnabas and me as their co-workers. They encouraged us to keep preaching to the Gentiles, while they continued their work with the Jews.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]English Standard Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G1380 δοκέω dokeo (d̮o-ke'-ō) v., 1. to suppose, consider, imagine., 2. (by implication) to seem (truthfully or uncertainly)., 3. (by inference) to presume., 4. (also) to repute or estimate., 5. (by extension) to be of reputation, estimable. {(used only in an alternate in certain tenses)} [a prolonged form of a primary verb, δόκω dốkō of the same meaning], KJV: be accounted, (of own) please(-ure), be of reputation, seem (good), suppose, think, trow, Compare: G1166, G1209, G2309, G3543, G3049, G5426, See also: G1384

[/FONT]Yet Yahshua/Jesus was clear:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 19:28, "Jesus told them, “I tell all of you with certainty, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne in the renewed creation, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, governing the twelve tribes of Israel."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 21:10-14, “He carried me away in the Spirit to a large, high mountain and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven. The glory of God was its radiance, and its light was like a valuable gem, like jasper, as clear as crystal. It had a large, high wall with twelve gates. Twelve angels were at the gates, and the names of the twelve tribes of Israel were written on the gates. There were three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west. The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the lamb were written on them."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:11-15, “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy, let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart. And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood.”[/FONT]

This proves you do not know what you are talking about....his brothers did not believe until AFTER THE RESURRECTION and the context is MEN NOT GOD....SEE and you wonder why we hammer your false dogma and the James he speaking of is NOT THE HALF BROTHER OF JESUS, BUT RATHER THE BROTHER OF JOHN

 

[Hizikyah]

Hi H,

Do you not think faith will produce works?
What saves us?
What us evidence of faith?

Is it faith + works that saves?

Almost 2018 where I am. May our Father bless us all in the new year to come.

faith does produce works, I agree.James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"


James 2:24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone."

Truly it is YHWH that saves. As to our part that is why I posted this:

you do misrepresent when you say lawyer and phaisee.

faith does produce works, I agree.

saying faith + works is not saying faith does not produce works, you are splitting hairs on linguistics, come on really? Ohh you did't put a period you must beleive somethin else! LOL

James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"


James 2:24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone."

James was one of the 3 main disciples and walke with Yahshua/Jesus daily, and was also His brother, He knew true doctrine well.

yeah ok.

John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life." Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”


Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”


Malachi 3:14-18, “You have said, ‘It is worthless to serve Yah. And what did we gain when we guarded His Charge, and when we walked as mourners before יהוה of hosts? And now we are calling the proud blessed – not only are the doers of wrongness built up, but they also try Yah and escape. Then shall those who fear יהוה speak to one another, and יהוה listens and hears, and a book of remembrance be written before Him, of those who fear יהוה, and those who think upon His Name. And they shall be Mine,” said יהוה of hosts, “on the day that I prepare a treasured possession. And I shall spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him. Then you shall again see the difference between the righteous and the wrong, between one who serves Yah and one who does not serve Him."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

cursed huh?

Galatians 1:8-9, “But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that person be cursed! What we have told you in the past I am now telling you again: If anyone proclaims to you a gospel contrary to what you received, let that person be cursed!”


James 3:8-11, “but no one can tame the tongue. It is an uncontrollable evil filled with deadly poison. With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse those who are made in God’s likeness. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. It should not be like this, my brothers! A spring cannot pour both fresh and brackish water from the same opening, can it?”

This is sad, the word used in Gal 1: 9 is anathema,. It basically means damned.

The word used in James is katera. Which does mean cursed, but not damned.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is not true, people hate the Law so I seek to show what the word says about it, it is the only standard of what love is according to YHWH:

1 John 4:20, “"If someone says, "I love Yah," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love Yah whom he has not seen."


1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”


Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."


1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

No we do not hate law. We hate misapplication of the law. Get your facts straight!

 

[Hizikyah]

Matthew 19:28, "Jesus told them, “I tell all of you with certainty, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne in the renewed creation, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, governing the twelve tribes of Israel."

Revelation 21:10-14, “He carried me away in the Spirit to a large, high mountain and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven. The glory of God was its radiance, and its light was like a valuable gem, like jasper, as clear as crystal. It had a large, high wall with twelve gates. Twelve angels were at the gates, and the names of the twelve tribes of Israel were written on the gates. There were three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west. The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the lamb were written on them."

This proves you do not know what you are talking about....his brothers did not believe until AFTER THE RESURRECTION and the context is MEN NOT GOD....SEE and you wonder why we hammer your false dogma

James letter was post resurrection and he lived his entire life learning from his older brother Yahshua/Jesus...

Matthew 19:28, "Jesus told them, “I tell all of you with certainty, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne in the renewed creation,you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, governing the twelve tribes of Israel."

 

[Hizikyah]

No we do not hate law. We hate misapplication of the law. Get your facts straight!

In general people fight against the Law so much it is clear there is enmity toward it.

SO you beleive the Law of YHWH as explained by the Messiah is right and to be followed?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

James letter was post resurrection and he lived his entire life learning from his older brother Yahshua/Jesus...

Matthew 19:28, "Jesus told them, “I tell all of you with certainty, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne in the renewed creation,you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, governing the twelve tribes of Israel."

Pauls letter was post ressurection also.

Paul said by grace through faith NOT OF WORKS

He said not by works of righteousness which we have done, by by Gods mercy

He said if it is grace it is not of works, otherwise, grace is no longer grace (ie, works cancel out grace)

I can go on and on and on.

Did James contradict paul?

 

[gb9]

That is not true, people hate the Law so I seek to show what the word says about it, it is the only standard of what love is according to YHWH:

1 John 4:20, “"If someone says, "I love Yah," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love Yah whom he has not seen."


1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”


Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."


1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

and what does John say the commands are- believe in the name of the Son and love one another. 1st John chapter 3

you lawyers love to quote 1st John to make your case, but you leave out what John says the commands are. ( not Sabbath )

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In general people fight against the Law so much it is clear there is enmity toward it.

SO you beleive the Law of YHWH as explained by the Messiah is right and to be followed?

The paul hates the law.

Again I ask you which is correct.

faith plus salvation = wiorks

faith plus works = salvation??

 

[dcontroversal]

John 7:5 For even His own brothers did not believe in Him

I suggest you wake up and get your head wrapped around the truth before you post.......when you post falsehoods like above all it does is prove you are missing the mark!

 

[Hizikyah]

This is sad, the word used in Gal 1: 9 is anathema,. It basically means damned.

The word used in James is katera. Which does mean cursed, but not damned.

331. anathema Strong's Concordance

anathema: that which is laid up, i.e. a votive offering​

Original Word: ἀνάθεμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: anathema
Phonetic Spelling: (an-ath'-em-ah)
Short Definition: a curse, a cursed thing
Definition: a votive offering, a thing devoted to God; a curse, the thing cursed.

2672. kataraomai Strong's Concordance

kataraomai: to curse​

Original Word: καταράομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kataraomai
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ar-ah'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: I curse
Definition: I curse.

 

[dcontroversal]

So James contradicted paul. Thanks, I might as well through my bible out. It is useless.

Which one of these mathematical equestrians is true?

faith plus salvation = works

Faith plus works equals salvation?

His whole premise is false.....and he does not have any understanding which James he is speaking about.......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

331. anathema Strong's Concordance

anathema: that which is laid up, i.e. a votive offering​

Original Word: ἀνάθεμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: anathema
Phonetic Spelling: (an-ath'-em-ah)
Short Definition: a curse, a cursed thing
Definition: a votive offering, a thing devoted to God; a curse, the thing cursed.

2672. kataraomai Strong's Concordance

kataraomai: to curse​

Original Word: καταράομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kataraomai
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ar-ah'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: I curse
Definition: I curse.

thanks, you just proved they are two different words. Which means your post was useless.

 

[dcontroversal]

Time for some words of wisdom from me.. lol

Faith does produce works. But to do works ONLY for the purpose of getting, keeping, or maintaining salvation is fruitless. Works are NOT necessary to do in order to keep salvation. However, they ARE necessary to do, in order to show our obedience to God. We do them for that reason, and that reason only.

The money you loaned a neighbor won't save you. The driveway you shoveled for a disabled friend won't save you. The clothes you donated to Goodwill will not save you. FAITH AND GRACE is what saves us.. Works do not.

Yay blue gives wisdom.........clap clap clap