GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[posthuman]

Jesus doesn't contradict me, you just refused to post the scripture that answered your own question.


4 For they (Not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

it feels weird to remind a guy called "studyman" that reading comprehension is essential to "study"

you view has Jesus commanding people to obey whatever teachers of false laws, false sabbaths, false festivals and purely human imaginations??

Jesus says they preached the truth but did not practice what they preached.
you say they preached lies.
Jesus says listen to them.
you say do not listen to them.

those are pretty direct contradictions, dude, and your position makes Christ a liar.

 

[posthuman]

ironically enough, if you didn't feel like you have to twist Colossians 2 into saying that Christ died to nail to the cross a bunch of purely human commandments that were never binding on anyone, instead of the truth, that by His death we have died to what actually bound us, then you could point at Matthew 23 and say "see! He is telling them to obey what the teachers of the Law say! they say keep sabbath!"

instead you have to radically twist what Christ said here now too, just to keep your hermeneutic consistent, since His words directly contradicts yours.

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Colossians 2:20, “If, then, you died with Messiah from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to it’s ordinances.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Are the Sabbath (7[SUP]th[/SUP] day) and the Feast days ordinances of the world or are they from YHWH?[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 23:4, “These are the appointed times of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], set-apart gatherings which you are to proclaim at their appointed times.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice (Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits – presenting Himself to YHWH)

2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice

3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever

4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints

5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years

6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness

7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Colossians 2:8, “See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world, and not according to Messiah.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 74:4, “Your adversaries have roared In the midst of Your appointments; They have set up their own signs as signs.”


[/FONT]

 

[Studyman]

it feels weird to remind a guy called "studyman" that reading comprehension is essential to "study"

you view has Jesus commanding people to obey whatever teachers of false laws, false sabbaths, false festivals and purely human imaginations??

Jesus says they preached the truth but did not practice what they preached.
you say they preached lies.
Jesus says listen to them.
you say do not listen to them.

those are pretty direct contradictions, dude, and your position makes Christ a liar.

Well, given you preach Jesus triumphed over God in Col. 2, I can understand your confusion. I'll try and make it as simple as I can.

When I am reading a book to someone, they hear what the Author of the Book says. But when I put down the book, and start explaining out of the design of my own mind, when the words of the Book mean, then those listening are getting, not necessarily what the Author says, but what I say.

So when Jesus tells the Apostles to listen to the only source of the Gospel of Christ on the planet in that time, the Scribes, He tells them to do what they read from the Author (ultimately God), but don't follow what they preach the words mean. Because they read the right words, but they don't follow or teach what the words say.

Matt. 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

They say "Abraham is our Father, and we follow the Law of Moses.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

I could go on, but if you don't get it by now, there remains little hope you will ever get it.


So no, Jesus isn't a liar, and on this topic Him and I are on the exact same page. You, well, you are on a different page.

 

[posthuman]

Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah - Mat 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to their takanot (reforms) and their ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."

Quoting Professor George Howard, translator of Shem Tob:
In regard to theology, Shem-tob’s Hebrew Matthew is heretical according to the standard of traditional Christianity. It never identifies Jesus with the Messiah. John the Baptist is given an exalted role (even takes on messianic traits), — Shem-Tob’s text envisions the salvation of the Gentiles only in the Messianic era.

Matthew was not written in Hebrew.
why are you quoting an unbelieving Jewish heretics bastardization of the scripture?

in order to show us exactly what this heretic inserted into scripture?
to show us clearly what a false teacher felt he had to add to the word of God in order to prove his own lies? so we can see just how human tradition and vain philosophy has to alter the actual word of God in order to justify its heresies?

i'll assume so. thank you, that's enlightening, actually, and very appropriate to know.

 

[Hizikyah]

Quoting Professor George Howard, translator of Shem Tob:
In regard to theology, Shem-tob’s Hebrew Matthew is heretical according to the standard of traditional Christianity. It never identifies Jesus with the Messiah. John the Baptist is given an exalted role (even takes on messianic traits), — Shem-Tob’s text envisions the salvation of the Gentiles only in the Messianic era.

Matthew was not written in Hebrew.
why are you quoting an unbelieving Jewish heretics bastardization of the scripture?

in order to show us exactly what this heretic inserted into scripture?
to show us clearly what a false teacher felt he had to add to the word of God in order to prove his own lies? so we can see just how human tradition and vain philosophy has to alter the actual word of God in order to justify its heresies?

i'll assume so. thank you, that's enlightening, actually, and very appropriate to know.

yet it is the onlyversion of Mat the has the 13 generations, all other version say 13 and only list 12.

The Ebionites were a Christian sect that claimed to preserve the original autograph of apostle Matthew in Hebrew. It is quoted often by Epiphanius in the 300s. He said its official title was “The Gospel according to Matthew.” (Epiphanius, Panarion 30, 13, 2-3.)


Apostle John told Papias around 90 A.D. about this book of Matthew: “Matthew put together the oracles [of the Lord] in the Hebrew language, and each one interpreted them as best he could.” (Eusebius, Hist. Eccl. iii. 39, quoting Exposition of the Oracles of the Lord)


Irenaeus likewise says: “Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect.” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book III, Chapter I, quoted in Eusebius,
Ecclesiastical History, Book V, Chapter VIII.)


Jerome around 404 A.D. wrote of this too: “The Hebrew [Matthew] itself has been preserved until the present day in the library at Caesarea which Pamphilus so diligently gathered.” (Jerome, Lives of Illustrious Men, Chapter III.)


“Matthew collected the oracles (ta logia) in the Hebrew language, and each interpreted them as best he could.” – Papias (Eusebius, H.E. 3.39.16)


“As having learnt by tradition concerning the four Gospels, which alone are unquestionable in the Church of God under heaven, that first was written according to Matthew, who was once a tax collector but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, who published it for those who from Judaism came to believe, composed as it was in the Hebrew language.” – Origen (Eusebius, H.E. 6.25.4)


Jerome appears convinced the Hebrew Matthew to which the Nazarenes gave him access was the true autograph of Matthew. Jerome notes how it was protected in a private library at Caesarea. He writes in On Illustrious Men ch. III (404 A.D.):


“Matthew, also called Levi, apostle and aforetimes publican, composed a gospel of Christ at first published in Judea in Hebrew for the sake of those of the circumcision who believed, but this was afterwards translated into Greek though by what author is uncertain. The Hebrew itself has been preserved until the present day in the library at Caesarea which Pamphilus so diligently gathered. I have also had the opportunity of having the volume described to me by the Nazarenes of Beroea, a city of Syria, who use it.”


“Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews n their own dialect while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome and laying the foundations of the church.” – Irenaeus, Adv. Haer. 3.1.1

 

[Studyman]

ironically enough, if you didn't feel like you have to twist Colossians 2 into saying that Christ died to nail to the cross a bunch of purely human commandments that were never binding on anyone, instead of the truth, that by His death we have died to what actually bound us, then you could point at Matthew 23 and say "see! He is telling them to obey what the teachers of the Law say! they say keep sabbath!"

instead you have to radically twist what Christ said here now too, just to keep your hermeneutic consistent, since His words directly contradicts yours.


I know how difficult it is to be corrected by such a nobody. Your scorn is perfectly natural. But it isn't me who is correcting you, it's the same Book you claim to follow.

If you want to believe Jesus triumphed over God and made a show of Him openly, spoiling them, well can't really say them unless you believe Jesus spoiled the Father and the Son, or maybe you preach Jesus triumphed over the trinity, that would make the "them" fit your preaching, if you believe all three created the Laws of God you teach Jesus nailed to the cross.


Not much use in continuing this conversation. I hope you might consider the folly in the preaching that Jesus nailed God's Laws that the Bible says He will write on our hearts, to the cross. It is simply not true.

 

[LoveGodForever]

It doesn't take long to get fed up with his longwinded nonsense, full of psycho babble and rhetoric and come to realize that you are just wasting your time beating a dead horse! He likes to use the "word of website" argument in shady lawyer fashion to rebuke those who share links to websites that refute the false teachings of the SDA church, yet ironically, he has a link to a website (The BeastsMark is coming) at the bottom of all of his posts. Here is a sample of some of the ludicrous teachings from his word of website below.

The Roman Catholic Church and the fallen Protestant Churches will demand that the government enforce religious laws to bring the people back to God. First of all a law will be enacted making Sunday a day of rest for all its citizens. This will be a further rejection of God’s law and of His 7th day Sabbath in the fourth commandment.

As world conditions continue to deteriorate, economic sanctions will be legislated against those who refuse to comply with this new Sunday law, and they will be unable to buy or sell. Finally a death decree will be issued against them, and the United States will “cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.” (Rev 13:15-18)
​
Mark in the Forehead = Believe and obey (Deut 6:5-8, 11:18, Jer 3:3, Ex 13:9, 16 and Ezekiel 9:4)
Mark in the Hand = Human Action (Deut 6:5-8, 24:19, 30:9, 31:29, 1Kings 16:7, Job 1:10, Psalms 9:16 and Isaiah 1:15)

The beast causes his followers to receive a “mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell” without the “mark,” or the “name,” or the “number of the name of the first beast. The mark of the beast will be the observance of a religious law, enforced by the United States and other governments around the world, endorsing the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. Those who receive the mark in their foreheads believe that the Sunday law is necessary to regain God’s favor, while those marked in the hand obey only out of fear of death (Rev 13:15-18).

THE MARK OF THE BEAST COMES FROM LEGISLATED LAWS OF ENFORCED SUNDAY WORSHIP AND BREAKING ANY OF GOD"S COMMANDMENTS

RECEIVING THE MARK IN THE FOREHEAD = TO BELIEVE IN SUNDAY WORSHIP AND TO OBEY IT
RECEIVING THE MARK IN THE HAND = TO OBEY (You don't need to believe in Sunday Worship)

God’s seal is His name, character and law written in His people’s hearts and minds. These characteristics are seen in His 7th day Sabbath commandment, which identifies Him as our Creator (Ex 20: 10). God's true followers are identified as those who resist the mark of the beast and keep God's 7th Day Sabbath Holy. They are identified as “keeping the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus” (Rev 14:12)

Brother Anderson was a member of the SDA Church for 33 years. He was taught the SDA Church was the "remnant church" and was the one church entrusted with the "truth" for the last days. To his utter astonishment and amazement, when he began studying the Bible instead of Ellen White's books, he made the shocking discovery that SDA truth is different from Biblical truth. He found that some SDA teachings are not based upon Scripture at all but upon tradition, conjecture of the early pioneers, and statements made by the prophetess Ellen White.

Did you have anything from God's Word to share? I guess not. How sad for you. What is it that you accuse me of doing that will keep me and others out of God's Kingdom... scriptures please

 

[LoveGodForever]

Thank you brother! As that link to the article pointed out -- "Sabbatarians maintain that the "Lord's day" is the Sabbath. They maintain that Jesus said he was Lord of the Sabbath. However this is a very weak argument and the actual evidence for the first day (Sunday) is MUCH stronger!" Amen! As I have stated before, SDA's play the same game in salvation as every other false movement of Christendom. They profess to teach that salvation is by grace through faith, but then redefine this in a way that is contrary to the Gospel. Even though they deny this, they teach that salvation is by "grace plus law, faith plus works." Their doctrine of salvation is a subtle mixture of law and grace that is a perversion of the Gospel (Galatians 1:6-9).

SO my friend, I guess that means you have no scriptures to share in relation to the OP or anything posted here? Referring all the word of men or websites over the Word of God in order to hold your traditions will not help you know the truth and him who is calling you to LOVE but will only encourage all to believe a lie. Only God's Word is true and it is to the Word alone that we should point all who come because it is only in God's Word that anyone can find Jesus.

What is it that you accuse me of doing that will keep me and others out of God's Kingdom... scriptures please. If you cannot then why do you know BELIEVE God's WORD?

.............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

 

[LoveGodForever]

Few of us, if any, find fault with Sabbath observance. What is objectionable is putting other people under Law when Scripture teaches we are indeed NOT under Law. I f a person chooses to observe the Sabbath, for whatever reason, I have no quarrel with them; in fact, I do it myself. If a person teaches that Salvation depends on Sabbath observance; I will oppose them.

Yet God's Word tells us that SIN is the transgression of God's LAW and those who knowingly practice it are not His people and do not know him who calls them in LOVE to LOVE and be free from SIN.

..............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

 

[LoveGodForever]

The big problem is that they make the Sabbath a salvation issue: "we are saved by grace through faith, provided we keep the Sabbath", this is what they say. If the Old Testament laws were binding on Christians certainly Paul would have written about it in his letters, because Gentiles had no clue how to keep them.

SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments) If you KNOWINGLY practice SINS you do not KNOW him who calls and loves you and your tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire because you have rejected the Gift of God's dear son (Please read; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-9; Matthew 7:12-23; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-27)

We are indeed saved by GRACE through FAITH and not of ourselves it is a Gift of God and NOT of WORKS lest any man your boast but if your FAITH does not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW then you are still in your SINS (James 2:18; 20; 26; Matt 7:12-23)

Now please show me from God's Word that the OP or anything I am posting is not from God's Word? If you cannot should you not believe God's Word?

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


..............


God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

 

[LoveGodForever]

you guys really get triggered when the fake ellen white is exposed, don't you?
and since this thread is by a staunch sda/ ellen white supporter, it is totally appropriate to comment on it/her.
try as you might, you cannot separate sda from it's inventor.

Amazing how topics get changed when there is no scripture to share to deny the Word of God. Only God's Word is true and this is where we should point all to know him who LOVES us. How sad it will be for those who reject God's Word that is sent as a blessing from God to help them to meet him in peace.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

 

[LoveGodForever]

I most certainly will get the last word in, and it will be truthful.

I've shown your behavior, and you're still doing it above! It is a well known fact you pull this on any others here, and when you argue, accuse, point fingers, name call, which you do daily, cause contention and division you deny it and pretend that since you are doing it, it is OK. Then you make threads to attack others, insult, and accuse hoping they will be banned or something, all the while you behave in the same manner as you accuse! Romans 2:3, friend?

Show me where I've name called and allegedly committed all you accuse. I'm waiting. You see contention only when you are confronted and dismantled, then you insult the person doing it. That is the definition of contention to you: exposing your error and behavior. Unbelievable, but true.

Either substantiate your accusations on me, or you are left as one bearing false witness.

Also, actually address my posts, not my person? Perhaps? Like man up for once?

Ellen G. White is a false prophet. That is a fact. Address that, not me.

I am defending the persons whom you attack and accuse of trolling when all they are doing is exposing your error. That is how you address their posts, you avoid the issue and attack the person with insults.

I also defend the Gospel against your false gospel and false teachings as well as many others on this forum do toward you as well. God bless them in this endeavor!

Hello P4T.

How sad, are you another one that has nothing from God's Word to share?

However I have an interesting question for all.

How do you know if someone is from God or not and what do the scriptures say?

What does God say........

1 John 2
2, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

links to......

1 John 3
3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

links to........

Isaiah 8
20, To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

links to who God's people are........

Revelation 12
17, And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

links to.........

Revelation 14
12, Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

links to.........

Revelantion 22
14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

and is why Jesus says......

John 14
15, If ye love me, keep my commandments.


Well it seems very clear from God's Word....

Matthew 5
17, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19, Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Now I think we should believe and follow God's Word don't you?

......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

 

[LoveGodForever]

NOWHERE does the NT teach that keeping the Sabbath day is binding on Christians under the New Covenant. SDA's can quote a multitude of scriptures and twist those scriptures to say whatever they want to make them say, but to no avail. They are not fooling us.

Maybe you may need to open your bible and put down the word of websites God's Word seems to dsiagree with you. There has been know twisting of scripture. Please prove your point. If you cannot are you the one who is hiding from God's Word to point all to the teachings of men?

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant. *Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Amaazing you quoted some scirpture.

Now go and address the OP in those thread that this scripture is talking about that disagrees with your interpretation. That is what the OP is about. Simply stating the scruipture the OP is discussing does not address the OP. If you disagree please address each post and the scrtiptures provided in each post and your reasons with the scriptures. f you cannot should you not just BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD? It is only on the Word of God we stand or fall. It seems indeed you have fallen.

Even when SDA's set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced. If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the Old Covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.

We are in the NEW Covenant now my friend this is what the OP is about. What is the OLD Covenant to you and what makes up the OLD Covenant? What is the purpose of the different laws of God in the Old Covenant? This would be a great topic for your consideration. As you seem to have God's LAW (10 commandments) mixed up with the Mosaic laws and ordinances that Col 2 is referring to and what the OP is about maybe you should read it?

If you disagree please address each post and the scrtiptures provided in each post and your reasons with the scriptures. f you cannot should you not just BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD? It is only on the Word of God we stand or fall. Do you have anything to share besides pointing people to websites instead of God's Word?

So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place (no traveling) on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19). These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).

Once again we are in the NEW Covenant. Now you are quoting scripture in relation to the CIVIL laws of Israel under the Old Covenant. Did you know we are in the NEW Covenant now and not under the civil laws of Israel?

In the civil laws of Israel the death penalty was required for anyone caught openly sinning and breaking nearly ALL of God's 10 commandments including the 4th commandment. Here are all the other scritpures that you have left out of your post...

Death Penalties under the CIVIL laws of Israel in the Old Covenant.

[TABLE="class: MsoNormalTable, width: 375, align: left"]
[TR]
[TD] Commandment [/TD]
[TD] SIN[/TD]
[TD] REFERENCE[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] First[/TD]
[TD] Serviing other Gods[/TD]
[TD] Deut 13:6-18; 1Sam 26:19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Second[/TD]
[TD] Idolatary [/TD]
[TD] Deut 13:1-10; 17:2-5; 27:15;
Deut 7:25-26[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Third[/TD]
[TD] Using God's name in Vain[/TD]
[TD] Lev 24:10-17 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Fourth[/TD]
[TD] Breaking Sabbath[/TD]
[TD] Exodus 31:14-15; 35:2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Fifth[/TD]
[TD] Dishonor Parents[/TD]
[TD] Lev 20:9; Deut 21:18-21; Ex 21:17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Sixth[/TD]
[TD] Murder[/TD]
[TD] Ex 21:12-14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Seventh[/TD]
[TD] Adultery[/TD]
[TD] Lev 20; John 8:5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Eighth[/TD]
[TD] Stealing (kidnapping)[/TD]
[TD] Ex 21:16[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Ninth[/TD]
[TD] Lying[/TD]
[TD] Deuteronomy 19:15-21[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Tenth[/TD]
[TD] Coveting[/TD]
[TD] none [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

We are in the NEW Covenant now. The application of the DEATH penalty for SIN in the NEW covenant takes place at the 2nd coming to all those practiing SIN because they reject the GIFT of God's dear son. (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-27; Matthew 7:19; 2 Cor 5:10; 2 Peter 3:10; Matt 25:46; Romans 2:5; 2 Peter 2:1-9; Matthew 16:27; Romans 2:12 etc..)

God's LAW is the standard of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS and the penalty for SIN under the CIVIL laws of Moses wa DEATH for the nation of Israel under the OLD Covenant.

Unless you are living in the nation of Israel under the Old Covenant then those laws do not apply to you.

• Are you able under the NEW Covenant to commit adultery?
• Are you able under the NEW Covenant to lie?
• Are you able under the NEW Covenant to steal?
• Are you able under the NEW Covenant to murder anyone?
• Are you able under the NEW Covenant to use God's name in vain?
• Are you able under the NEW Covenant to dishonor your parents?
• Are you able under the NEW Covenant to serve other Gods?
• Are you able under the NEW Covenant to make idols of things?

Now my friend, how many commandments are in God's 10 commandments? (hint; Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; Deuteronomy 10:4)

Now if you answered NO you cannot break God's LAW (10 commandments) in the NEW Covenant you answered correctly.

Just like you could not break any of the other commandments in the Old Covenant because that would be committing SIN because SIN is the transgression of God's LAW and as the scriptures says, if we continue in known unrepentant SIN the WAGES of SIN = DEATH because those practicing SIN have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-27)

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to just like all the other 10 commandments, we stand guilty before God of committing SIN (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

The CIVIL laws of Moses were to teach God's people that the punishment for SIN was death. This is the same in the NEW Covenant but only carried out at the 2nd coming. It was also a Shadow that is yet to be fulfilled pointing to the 2nd coming (see scriptures above).

So under the NEW Covenant this DEATH sentance is carried out at the 2nd coming against all those who reject God's Word and refuse the GIFT of God's dear son.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

 

[LoveGodForever]

I know and as I said in the post you quoted I oppose that as strongly as anyone here.

Others have tried in the past. It is hard to kick against the pricks.

 

[MarcR]

Maybe you may need to open your bible and put down the word of websites God's Word seems to dsiagree with you. There has been know twisting of scripture. Please prove your point. If you cannot are you the one who is hiding from God's Word to point all to the teachings of men?




Amaazing you quoted some scirpture.

Now go and address the OP in those thread that this scripture is talking about that disagrees with your interpretation. That is what the OP is about. Simply stating the scruipture the OP is discussing does not address the OP. If you disagree please address each post and the scrtiptures provided in each post and your reasons with the scriptures. f you cannot should you not just BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD? It is only on the Word of God we stand or fall. It seems indeed you have fallen.



We are in the NEW Covenant now my friend this is what the OP is about. What is the OLD Covenant to you and what makes up the OLD Covenant? What is the purpose of the different laws of God in the Old Covenant? This would be a great topic for your consideration. As you seem to have God's LAW (10 commandments) mixed up with the Mosaic laws and ordinances that Col 2 is referring to and what the OP is about maybe you should read it?

If you disagree please address each post and the scrtiptures provided in each post and your reasons with the scriptures. f you cannot should you not just BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD? It is only on the Word of God we stand or fall. Do you have anything to share besides pointing people to websites instead of God's Word?



Once again we are in the NEW Covenant. Now you are quoting scripture in relation to the CIVIL laws of Israel under the Old Covenant. Did you know we are in the NEW Covenant now and not under the civil laws of Israel?

In the civil laws of Israel the death penalty was required for anyone caught openly sinning and breaking nearly ALL of God's 10 commandments including the 4th commandment. Here are all the other scritpures that you have left out of your post...

Death Penalties under the CIVIL laws of Israel in the Old Covenant.

[TABLE="class: MsoNormalTable, width: 375, align: left"]
[TR]
[TD] Commandment [/TD]
[TD] SIN[/TD]
[TD] REFERENCE[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] First[/TD]
[TD] Serviing other Gods[/TD]
[TD] Deut 13:6-18; 1Sam 26:19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Second[/TD]
[TD] Idolatary [/TD]
[TD] Deut 13:1-10; 17:2-5; 27:15;
Deut 7:25-26[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Third[/TD]
[TD] Using God's name in Vain[/TD]
[TD] Lev 24:10-17 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Fourth[/TD]
[TD] Breaking Sabbath[/TD]
[TD] Exodus 31:14-15; 35:2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Fifth[/TD]
[TD] Dishonor Parents[/TD]
[TD] Lev 20:9; Deut 21:18-21; Ex 21:17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Sixth[/TD]
[TD] Murder[/TD]
[TD] Ex 21:12-14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Seventh[/TD]
[TD] Adultery[/TD]
[TD] Lev 20; John 8:5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Eighth[/TD]
[TD] Stealing (kidnapping)[/TD]
[TD] Ex 21:16[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Ninth[/TD]
[TD] Lying[/TD]
[TD] Deuteronomy 19:15-21[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Tenth[/TD]
[TD] Coveting[/TD]
[TD] none [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

We are in the NEW Covenant now. The application of the DEATH penalty for SIN in the NEW covenant takes place at the 2nd coming to all those practiing SIN because they reject the GIFT of God's dear son. (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-27; Matthew 7:19; 2 Cor 5:10; 2 Peter 3:10; Matt 25:46; Romans 2:5; 2 Peter 2:1-9; Matthew 16:27; Romans 2:12 etc..)

God's LAW is the standard of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS and the penalty for SIN under the CIVIL laws of Moses wa DEATH for the nation of Israel under the OLD Covenant.

Unless you are living in the nation of Israel under the Old Covenant then those laws do not apply to you.

• Are you able under the NEW Covenant to commit adultery?
• Are you able under the NEW Covenant to lie?
• Are you able under the NEW Covenant to steal?
• Are you able under the NEW Covenant to murder anyone?
• Are you able under the NEW Covenant to use God's name in vain?
• Are you able under the NEW Covenant to dishonor your parents?
• Are you able under the NEW Covenant to serve other Gods?
• Are you able under the NEW Covenant to make idols of things?

Now my friend, how many commandments are in God's 10 commandments? (hint; Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; Deuteronomy 10:4)

Now if you answered NO you cannot break God's LAW (10 commandments) in the NEW Covenant you answered correctly.

Just like you could not break any of the other commandments in the Old Covenant because that would be committing SIN because SIN is the transgression of God's LAW and as the scriptures says, if we continue in known unrepentant SIN the WAGES of SIN = DEATH because those practicing SIN have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-27)

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to just like all the other 10 commandments, we stand guilty before God of committing SIN (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

The CIVIL laws of Moses were to teach God's people that the punishment for SIN was death. This is the same in the NEW Covenant but only carried out at the 2nd coming. It was also a Shadow that is yet to be fulfilled pointing to the 2nd coming (see scriptures above).

So under the NEW Covenant this DEATH sentance is carried out at the 2nd coming against all those who reject God's Word and refuse the GIFT of God's dear son.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

Indeed believers do not feel at liberty to break 9 of the 10 commandments; but, that has NOTHING to do with the fact they are in the 10 commandments. Those believers who do not observe the Sabbath have been specifically told IN SCRIPTURE that it is NOT REQUIRED OF THEM; and neither I nor they are ready to put your authority or that of E.G. White above Scripture.

 

[beta]

Few of us, if any, find fault with Sabbath observance. What is objectionable is putting other people under Law when Scripture teaches we are indeed NOT under Law. I f a person chooses to observe the Sabbath, for whatever reason, I have no quarrel with them; in fact, I do it myself. If a person teaches that Salvation depends on Sabbath observance; I will oppose them.

How many christs are Lord of the Sabbath ? There is only ONE AUthentic TRue Jesus who made and is Lord of it....all others are false impersonaters and deceivers !
Our salvation depends on KNOwing and FOllowing the One TRue Jesus....wouldn't you say ? and if that (salvation) starts with sharing and honouring HIS HOLY time with Him (among other things) then who are we to REject it ?

People tend to neglect scripture that teaches ALL is given to be profitable for doctrine, for reprove, for correction in righteousness that the man of God may be perfect....ALL of it....so let's stop picking and choosing what seems right to US.
If we are not loving and obedient to the 'ONE TRUE Jesus who IS LORD of the Sabbath' how can we be saved ? Heb 5v9 !

 

[beta]

even though neither of those are in the 10 commandments

What do you mean 'loving God and neighbour is not IN the 10 Commandments ?
They ARE the 10 Commandments !!!

By DOING or NOT doing what GOD says we show our LOVE !!!

 

[LoveGodForever]

Indeed believers do not feel at liberty to break 9 of the 10 commandments; but, that has NOTHING to do with the fact they are in the 10 commandments. Those believers who do not observe the Sabbath have been specifically told IN SCRIPTURE that it is NOT REQUIRED OF THEM; and neither I nor they are ready to put your authority or that of E.G. White above Scripture.

Arr yet but not a single scripture once again marcR? This is becoming a common practice with you.

Those who know him who loves you would disagree with you. God's Word is very clear my friend. SIN is the breaking of God's 10 commandments those who continue to practice known SIN are not in a saved state before God come judgement day.

Hebrews 10
26, For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

How sad it will be for some that had the Word of God right before their eyes but chose not to BELIEVE and FOLLOW him that tried to call them...

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

 

[PS]

ironically enough, if you didn't feel like you have to twist Colossians 2 into saying that Christ died to nail to the cross a bunch of purely human commandments that were never binding on anyone, instead of the truth, that by His death we have died to what actually bound us, then you could point at Matthew 23 and say "see! He is telling them to obey what the teachers of the Law say! they say keep sabbath!"

instead you have to radically twist what Christ said here now too, just to keep your hermeneutic consistent, since His words directly contradicts yours.


I know how difficult it is to be corrected by such a nobody. Your scorn is perfectly natural. But it isn't me who is correcting you, it's the same Book you claim to follow.

If you want to believe Jesus triumphed over God and made a show of Him openly, spoiling them, well can't really say them unless you believe Jesus spoiled the Father and the Son, or maybe you preach Jesus triumphed over the trinity, that would make the "them" fit your preaching, if you believe all three created the Laws of God you teach Jesus nailed to the cross.


Not much use in continuing this conversation. I hope you might consider the folly in the preaching that Jesus nailed God's Laws that the Bible says He will write on our hearts, to the cross. It is simply not true.

It came to me during the night. When we were discussing the commandments of Jesus, I forgot to include the most important one,

And Jesus said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
(Luk 22:15-20 KJV)

When do we do this in remembrance of Christ's death and resurrection? Well, we don't remember His great gift to us while he was still in the tomb do we! We do it on the day he rose from the grave, For Christ is risen HALLELUJAH!