Partakers of the Holy Ghost

[Speak2Me]

you know, you are giving him far too much fun

you are not familiar with it, but some folks here love to get a Jack Russel grip on new people and shake them until they either get them banned by constant goading, or, consider themselves the winner in a battle for superiority as in 'legend in their own mind'

>>>>>>You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to 7seasrekeyed again.<<<<<<​

 

[Speak2Me]

You generally get an ad hominem in when you post. You haven't failed to do so here either, in ending your post you offer yet another.

We all know what the Scripture says, and the word definitions we get, yet neither prove your stance.

Truth doesn't end with knowing what Scripture says, but knowing what it means. This passage isn't dealing with sins of the saints, but of apostasy and apostates.

You want it to be dealing with sins of the saints, because you deem yourself exempt, and deem others as guilty.

Which is rather silly, because you'd be damning your own soul along with them into hell because you sin deliberately as well.

It's not my fault you can't read.

 

[Speak2Me]

Deluded people are permanently blind, permanently deaf, & permanently hardened against the truth.

They will believe a lie & be damned.

 

[UnderGrace]

Nope

Saint Paul

Deluded people are permanently blind, permanently deaf, & permanently hardened against the truth.

They will believe a lie & be damned.

 

[Speak2Me]

Delusion -
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]◄ 4106. plané ►[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Strong's Concordance
plané: a wandering
Original Word: πλάνη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: plané
Phonetic Spelling: (plan'-ay)
Short Definition: a wandering, error
Definition: a wandering; fig: deceit, delusion, error, sin.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 4106 plánē (a feminine noun derived from 4105 /planáō) – deviant behavior; a departure from what God says is true; an error (deception) which results in wandering (roaming into sin). See 4105(planaō).

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
fem. of planos
Definition
a wandering
NASB Translation
deceitful (1), deception (1), deluding (1), error (7).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4106: πλάνη

πλάνη, πλάνης, ἡ, a wandering, a straying about, whereby one, led astray from the right way, roams hither and thither (Aeschylus (Herodotus), Euripides, Plato, Demosthenes, others). In the N. T. metaphorically, mental straying, i. e. error, wrong opinion relative to morals or religion: Ephesians 4:14; 1 Thessalonians 2:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:11; 2 Peter 2:18; 2 Peter 3:17; 1 John 4:6; Jude 1:11 (on which (cf. Winers Grammar, 189 (177) and) seeἐκχέω, b. at the end); error which shows itself in action, a wrong mode of acting: Romans 1:27; πλάνη ὁδοῦ τίνος (R. V. error of one's way i. e.) the wrong manner of life which one follows, James 5:20 (πλάνη ζωῆς, Wis. 1:12); as sometimes the Latin error, equivalent to that which leads into error, deceit, fraud: Matthew 27:64.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
delusion, error.
Feminine of planos (as abstractly); objectively, fraudulence; subjectively, a straying from orthodoxy or piety -- deceit, to deceive, delusion, error.
see GREEK planos
Forms and Transliterations
πλάναι πλανη πλάνη πλάνῃ πλανης πλάνης πλανήσει πλανήσεως πλανήσι πλάνησιν πλάνησις plane planē pláne plánē plánei plánēi planes planēs plánes plánēs
Links
Interlinear Greek • Interlinear Hebrew • Strong's Numbers • Englishman's Greek Concordance • Englishman's Hebrew Concordance • Parallel Texts


Englishman's Concordance
Strong's Greek 4106
10 Occurrences

πλάνη — 4 Occ.
πλάνης — 6 Occ.

Matthew 27:64 N-NFS
GRK: ἡ ἐσχάτη πλάνη χείρων τῆς
NAS: and the last deception will be worse
KJV: so the last error shall be worse than
INT: the last deception worse than the
Romans 1:27 N-GFS
GRK: ἔδει τῆς πλάνης αὐτῶν ἐν
NAS: the due penalty of their error.
KJV: of their error which
INT: was fit of the error of them in
Ephesians 4:14 N-GFS
GRK: μεθοδείαν τῆς πλάνης
NAS: by craftiness in deceitfulscheming;
KJV: whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
INT: scheming of deceit
1 Thessalonians 2:3 N-GFS
GRK: οὐκ ἐκ πλάνης οὐδὲ ἐξ
NAS: For our exhortation does not [come] from error or
KJV: [was] not of deceit, nor of
INT: [was] not of error nor of
2 Thessalonians 2:11 N-GFS
GRK: θεὸς ἐνέργειαν πλάνηςεἰς τὸ
NAS: will send upon them a deluding influence
KJV: them strong delusion, that they
INT: God a working of departure for
James 5:20 N-GFS
GRK: ἁμαρτωλὸν ἐκ πλάνηςὁδοῦ αὐτοῦ
NAS: a sinner from the error of his way
KJV: the sinner from the error of his way
INT: a sinner from [the] error of the way of him
2 Peter 2:18 N-DFS
GRK: τοὺς ἐν πλάνῃἀναστρεφομένους
NAS: from the ones who live in error,
KJV: from them who live in error.
INT: those who in error walk
2 Peter 3:17 N-DFS
GRK: τῶν ἀθέσμων πλάνῃσυναπαχθέντες ἐκπέσητε
NAS: that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men
KJV: being led away with the errorof the wicked,
INT: of the lawless [ones] errorhaving been led away you should fall from
1 John 4:6 N-GFS
GRK: πνεῦμα τῆς πλάνης
NAS: of truth and the spirit of error.
KJV: and the spirit of error.
INT: spirit of error
Jude 1:11 N-DFS
GRK: καὶ τῇ πλάνῃ τοῦ Βαλαὰμ
NAS: they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam,
KJV: ran greedily after the error of Balaam
INT: and to the error of Balaam
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


​

Those that are deluded are spiritually blind, deaf, & without understanding. Deceived permanently.

So, yeah, deluded people of the NT are damned.

 

[ComeLordJesus]

you know, you are giving him far too much fun

you are not familiar with it, but some folks here love to get a Jack Russel grip on new people and shake them until they either get them banned by constant goading, or, consider themselves the winner in a battle for superiority as in 'legend in their own mind'

How cute! ROFL Yeah isn't it sad that people exist like them.

 

[OtherWay210]

The passage wont make sense without understanding what was said before.

Its about if you teach a person Salvation over an over and over, and nothing of Christ's actual teachings, then you're in effect blaspheming Christ, Paul says it implies Christ didn't accomplish what the Bible said.


A lot of people confuse the verse saying you shouldn't repent when you sin .
Christ saves . Then all thats needed is repentance .

This is about Learning, as apposed to those who've not learned .
So if you're only teaching Salvation to a group of Saved people that is wrong Paul is saying .

You have to understand the verses in a continuation of what was previously said.
Once some one is on the path to learning Gods words, and needs to get into the meat of the word
it then becomes a shame, for them to be taught Salvation , baptism and repentance .


Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,


That is your contrast, between those who mature in the word, who've leaned about " the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come"

And those that just teach salvation and baptism which results in " putting our Lord's sacrifice to shame. "

 

[OtherWay210]

The verse is also NOT talking about the gift of the HS that you maybe thinking of.
its taking about the knowledge, of the Spirit. Gods words. The enlightening Gods words bring

Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[Mem]

Okay, going back to square one.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them gain unto repentence; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Hebrews 6:4-6

According to Acts 19:2-6 receiving the Holy Ghost was associated with believing.

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? Acts 2:2

These asked initially answered "No," although they did subsequently we baptized in the name of Jesus and received the Holy Ghost. So, since 'since ye believe' implies that they believed before hand, but had not yet received the Holy Spirit, how, then, can it be claimed that receiving the Holy Ghost was associated with believing?

For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him Should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

If I'm reading Hebrew 6:4-6 correctly, repentence and faith are bound together. There can't be a saving faith without true repentence.

As per Act 19:2-6, repentance and faith are correlated, but then, why where these asked if they had yet received the Holy Spirit? Was repentance sufficient for faith, or no? And if no, is receiving the Holy Spirit, then, not sufficient...? I may be totally missing the central thought here, but it seems the thesis of this thread is that receiving the Holy Spirit is not sufficient for salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you know, you are giving him far too much fun

you are not familiar with it, but some folks here love to get a Jack Russel grip on new people and shake them until they either get them banned by constant goading, or, consider themselves the winner in a battle for superiority as in 'legend in their own mind'

Oh boy, I have heard everything now. And any thread of respect I may have had for you just drove off into the sunset.

All I did was ask her a question, based on something she said. All she had to do was answer the question, and non of this would. Have happened.

Butyou for some reason are angry at me, So you have to attack me.. Whatever, Pleas4e go away, Ignore me, and never say another word about me.

PS. My question still stands.

She used to passages which seem to say people who commit KNOWN wILLFUL SIN while not get to heaven or should be cast out.

so does she think she does not sin, that her sin are mistakes, oopsie. Whatever? How about you. DO you think this??

PS. She started it not me.. By claiming if everyone looks at her thread they will se how OSAS is a false gospel.

Yet here you are defending her. HA HA HA HA!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What about Romans 9 then?

The context of romans 9 is did God make a mistake choosing Israel. Not that God chose to send one baby to hell and one baby to heaven before they were even born,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Deluded people are permanently blind, permanently deaf, & permanently hardened against the truth.

They will believe a lie & be damned.

Here is a very righteous, spirit filled, bible proven post that everyone should listen to.

(NOT) it just goes to show their true heart. They are not here to discuss the word. But to judge everyone who disagrees with them, Notice he is the same person who gave a woman a rep for attacking a person who basically asked another person a question to tru to discuss what she was saying.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nope

Saint Paul

Everyone was blind at one time, If our blindness was permanent, no one could get saved, Oh and PS. Isreal would never repent either (romans 11)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How cute! ROFL Yeah isn't it sad that people exist like them.

Lol. You going to answer the questions or keep running away like you are hurt?

You said you did not say you were going to attack OSAS, and I proved you did. You can’t even admit you made a mistake? (We all make mistakes) But going to go in pride and refuse to admit (as if we should have expected any different)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The passage wont make sense without understanding what was said before.

Its about if you teach a person Salvation over an over and over, and nothing of Christ's actual teachings, then you're in effect blaspheming Christ, Paul says it implies Christ didn't accomplish what the Bible said.


A lot of people confuse the verse saying you shouldn't repent when you sin .
Christ saves . Then all thats needed is repentance .

This is about Learning, as apposed to those who've not learned .
So if you're only teaching Salvation to a group of Saved people that is wrong Paul is saying .

You have to understand the verses in a continuation of what was previously said.
Once some one is on the path to learning Gods words, and needs to get into the meat of the word
it then becomes a shame, for them to be taught Salvation , baptism and repentance .


Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,


That is your contrast, between those who mature in the word, who've leaned about " the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come"

And those that just teach salvation and baptism which results in " putting our Lord's sacrifice to shame. "

What? The context is the law. And people returning to law (leaving the elementary principles) So how do you come up with this contextual path of this verse? Can you explain more please? I may have misunderstood you, if so please forgive me.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Oh boy, I have heard everything now. And any thread of respect I may have had for you just drove off into the sunset.

All I did was ask her a question, based on something she said. All she had to do was answer the question, and non of this would. Have happened.

Butyou for some reason are angry at me, So you have to attack me.. Whatever, Pleas4e go away, Ignore me, and never say another word about me.

PS. My question still stands.

She used to passages which seem to say people who commit KNOWN wILLFUL SIN while not get to heaven or should be cast out.

so does she think she does not sin, that her sin are mistakes, oopsie. Whatever? How about you. DO you think this??

PS. She started it not me.. By claiming if everyone looks at her thread they will se how OSAS is a false gospel.

Yet here you are defending her. HA HA HA HA!!

ha ha ha ha?

even the leetle doggies don't buy it

you get a hold of something and just won't let go...personally, I see it as YOUR problem

sorry, but I do

not a hill to die on

Butyou for some reason are angry at me, So you have to attack me.. Whatever, Pleas4e go away, Ignore me, and never say another word about me.

touchy much?

no one has attacked you that I can see but there may be some truth to you actually jabbing at quite a few people

whine whine whine (fits in with the cute doggie theme, doncha think? )

and no one has to answer your questions. you are not in charge here and you are not a Bible teacher...this is supposed to be a discussion forum...not the Spanish Inquisition

 

[eternally-gratefull]

ha ha ha ha?

even the leetle doggies don't buy it

you get a hold of something and just won't let go...personally, I see it as YOUR problem

sorry, but I do

not a hill to die on

Actually it is your problem, I do not know what I did to upset you. But something happened. Sand you hold grudges. Thats sad, Buty thats on you,. No sweat off my back.

She made a point, and I asked her a question

She did not answer

I asked again.

She again did not answer and said I was attacking her (by this time I most likely had less then ten posts to her)

Then she lied and said she did not do something, And threatened me.

I proved to her she did say what I said she did. And you and all the others come to her aid..

So yeah, it is funny.

touchy much?

no one has attacked you that I can see but there may be some truth to you actually jabbing at quite a few people

whine whine whine (fits in with the cute doggie theme, doncha think? )

and no one has to answer your questions. you are not in charge here and you are not a Bible teacher...this is supposed to be a discussion forum...not the Spanish Inquisition

Blah Blah Blah.. You sound like a broken record. Should I fear??

This is a bible discussion forum.

1. She made a point a passage proved her right
2. I asked her a question to discuss the issue
3. Like so many do, instead of answering the question, they blame shift. Peter did it. ISIT did it. Fran did it, Now we have another doing it. So many have done it.

If your going to make a point, Try to back it up. Stop being afraid if someone questions you.

‘Your right, this is a bible discussion forum. SDO why is SHE AFTRAID to discuss what the Bible says?

Your right, I am not in charge, the mods are. If she wants to report me, she can feel free to report me, I could care less. And I am not worried, because I have done nothing wrong.

As for you. Again, I do not know what your beef is with me, But stop. I feel like I am in high school and people need to take sides and attack everyone who disagrees with them,.

I did not attack her, I ASKED HER A QUESTION.

 

[ComeLordJesus]

The passage wont make sense without understanding what was said before.

Its about if you teach a person Salvation over an over and over, and nothing of Christ's actual teachings, then you're in effect blaspheming Christ, Paul says it implies Christ didn't accomplish what the Bible said.


A lot of people confuse the verse saying you shouldn't repent when you sin .
Christ saves . Then all thats needed is repentance .

This is about Learning, as apposed to those who've not learned .
So if you're only teaching Salvation to a group of Saved people that is wrong Paul is saying .

You have to understand the verses in a continuation of what was previously said.
Once some one is on the path to learning Gods words, and needs to get into the meat of the word
it then becomes a shame, for them to be taught Salvation , baptism and repentance .


Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,


That is your contrast, between those who mature in the word, who've leaned about " the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come"

And those that just teach salvation and baptism which results in " putting our Lord's sacrifice to shame. "

I don't see how Hebrews 6 1-3 has any bearing on the truth that is contained in v.4. It looks like to me it was information they had already been over.

Its about if you teach a person Salvation over an over and over, and nothing of Christ's actual teachings, then you're in effect blaspheming Christ, Paul says it implies Christ didn't accomplish what the Bible said.​

The passage in question doesn't say a thing about Christ' actual teachings.​

​

 

[ComeLordJesus]

To any who are interested it has been debated whether Paul was the author of Hebrews as far back as the second century.

Since Paul claims his apostleship and message were directly from Jesus (Gal. 1:1, 12) The writer of Hebrews regards himself as one whose knowledge of Christ was secondhand Heb. 2:3.

 

[hardsell]

So let me guess, When you sin it is a mistake? A woopsie? A mistake? Do you go to God and say Thgank God I am not like the sinner, Yes I have boo boos some times when I accidentally sin/ But I am not like the murderer and sexual sinner.

You ought to grow up and be very careful who try to teach on sin.

You stated on the not by works thread, that you use profanity while teaching Bible classes when you cannot think of a nice word to help you make a point. You also stated on that thread that you appreciate a preacher that is on fire and uses profanity behind the pulpit to wake up his audience to a point he is trying to make. You justified further by syaing folks in church love that, not that pastor used a 4 letter word of profanity, but how he used the profanity to help them understand the point he was trying to make. Several back and forth posts showed you absolutely justifying the use of profanity by Church preachers, teachers, pastors and elders.

Now you asked me not to comment anymore to you on this subject and we would have to agree to disagree, right? You said over there I was judging you, but I was merely calling you into accountability as a fellow minister of the Gospel.

I was going to leave you alone on this thread, until I saw your high and mighty blow to this person and your other childish rants about others, so I feel it is my duty to protect people from a self professed Bible teacher and church leader like you, who claims using profanity is perfectly acceptable all because Paul, Isaiah and Jesus used terms like dung, filthy rags, etc.


Now stop trying to tell people about their sins or teach anyone with any kind of authority . You are just another carnal Christian, and the word says a carnal minded person is his enemy, not his teacher.