GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?
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Now MarcR. Where are all these scriptures you say you know and that intelligent conversation? Seems you have not provided any scriptures whatsoever or the intelligent conversation.
Who should we believe God or man?
...............
God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)
There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.
Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)
Who should we believe God or man?
...............
God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)
There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.
Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)
Hello TMS,
Another who knows God's Word and reads the scriptures. Welcome here. Nice to see those who are studying God's Word for themselves and not relying on the techings of others. Well written and well said. It is only on the Word of God we stand or we fall. Thanks for sharing the scriptures with us.
May God bless you as you continue in His Word.
Another who knows God's Word and reads the scriptures. Welcome here. Nice to see those who are studying God's Word for themselves and not relying on the techings of others. Well written and well said. It is only on the Word of God we stand or we fall. Thanks for sharing the scriptures with us.
May God bless you as you continue in His Word.
Depends what you mean by unbelief.
There are basically to Greek word translated unbelief in the KJV. They are both used in Romans, but neither of these words is used in chapter 1. The first usage of either of these words is in Romans 3:3. It is Apistia. It is defined in the BDAG Lexicon as follows.
1 unwillingness to commit oneself to another or respond positively to the other’s words or actions, lack of belief, unbelief....
2 lack of commitment to a relationship or pledge, unfaithfulness....
As one can clearly see this unbelief is a commitment issue. A trust issue. One in this state of unbelief is one who has shown that they can not be trusted because of their unwillingness to commit positively to someone. It isn't that they do not believe in GOD. That is not the problem. The Problem is that they will not commit themselves to HIM.
This word is used in Romans 3 more times. They are in Romans 4:20;11:20,23 respectively.
The next word is Apeitheia. It is not used in the KJV until Romans 11:30 and then again in verse 32. The BDAG Lexicon define it as "disobedience" and goes on to say, "in our lit. always of disob. toward God".
So if by unbelief you mean they were not committing themselves and therefore could not be trusted due to their disobedience; then yes you are correct Because that is definitely shared in Romans 1. Obedience to the Faith and through the Faith is what it is always been about. Not that our sufficiency is of ourselves but our sufficiency (Faith) is of GOD.
There are basically to Greek word translated unbelief in the KJV. They are both used in Romans, but neither of these words is used in chapter 1. The first usage of either of these words is in Romans 3:3. It is Apistia. It is defined in the BDAG Lexicon as follows.
1 unwillingness to commit oneself to another or respond positively to the other’s words or actions, lack of belief, unbelief....
2 lack of commitment to a relationship or pledge, unfaithfulness....
As one can clearly see this unbelief is a commitment issue. A trust issue. One in this state of unbelief is one who has shown that they can not be trusted because of their unwillingness to commit positively to someone. It isn't that they do not believe in GOD. That is not the problem. The Problem is that they will not commit themselves to HIM.
This word is used in Romans 3 more times. They are in Romans 4:20;11:20,23 respectively.
The next word is Apeitheia. It is not used in the KJV until Romans 11:30 and then again in verse 32. The BDAG Lexicon define it as "disobedience" and goes on to say, "in our lit. always of disob. toward God".
So if by unbelief you mean they were not committing themselves and therefore could not be trusted due to their disobedience; then yes you are correct Because that is definitely shared in Romans 1. Obedience to the Faith and through the Faith is what it is always been about. Not that our sufficiency is of ourselves but our sufficiency (Faith) is of GOD.
Son of God by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: For the just shall live by faith.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Divinity; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;Being filled with all unrighteousness,
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;Being filled with all unrighteousness,
(Rom 1:4,5, 19-21,24,28,29)
I have no idea how you came to that understanding through this post. Our righteousness, our Faith is through he that works in us both to will and to do HIS good pleasure. This is what comes down from heaven and has been coming down from heaven since the time of Moses if not before. And this is what the post you responded to brings out. Please read the post again.
Not like you are implying. If I do use another man's or woman's writings or thoughts I give a resource. I have been on other boards. Even moderated one for seven years.
And to be perfectly honest I have never been one to read a lot commentary. For the most part my devotions are centered around prayer, the Bible, and word study helps centered around the Greek and Hebrew languages.
Have a nice day and may the LORD bless us in all HIS Way; Jesus Christ.
Not like you are implying. If I do use another man's or woman's writings or thoughts I give a resource. I have been on other boards. Even moderated one for seven years.
And to be perfectly honest I have never been one to read a lot commentary. For the most part my devotions are centered around prayer, the Bible, and word study helps centered around the Greek and Hebrew languages.
Have a nice day and may the LORD bless us in all HIS Way; Jesus Christ.
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Amen brother! I was reading through this article below from the "EX-Adventist Outreach" that you had previously posted. Very interesting! 
NEW LIGHT ON CEREMONIAL SABBATHS AND COLOSSIANS 2:16
An unbiased reading of Colossians 2:16 will show that this is talking about not just "ceremonial Sabbaths." The words "ton sabbaton" or "sabbath days"; are the same words translated "Sabbath day" in Exodus 20:8 in the Septuagint (the Jewish translation of the Old Testament into Greek).
Look at Paul's reasoning, "Let no one judge you regarding a,
• festival - yearly Sabbaths,
• a new moon - monthly Sabbaths,
• or a Sabbath day - weekly Sabbaths (or if you wish Sabbath days)"
• CHRIST, he goes on to say is the "Substance", these things were shadows.
When this passage is compared with Galatians 4:9 an obvious connection in Paul's teaching is revealed:
"But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years."
Verse 10 flatly states, "you observe...",
• days (weekly Sabbaths, corresponding to "Sabbath days in Col. 2)
• months (new moons, corresponding to "a new moon" in Col. 2)
• seasons (the 7 feasts, corresponding to "festivals" in Col. 2)
• and years (the sabbatical year and the 50th year of Jubilee)
Obviously Paul is clearing speaking about the observances of all Jewish holy day, including the Sabbath.
SABBATARIANS have long challenged, "Find one verse in the Bible that shows the day of worship has been changed from Sabbath to Sunday."
Well, that statement is part of building a straw man. It is not the issue. The New Testament makes that a moot point because it says it doesn't matter what day you worship on.
Romans 14:5
"One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind."
Galatians 4:9-11 "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain."
Colossians 2:16-17 "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."
SABBATARIANS ASK FOR ONE TEXT IN THE BIBLE THAT COMMANDS SUNDAY WORSHIP, HERE IT IS:
LEVITICUS 23:5-11 - Look at verse 11: "'And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.'" The day after the Sabbath is Sunday.
Read on specifically looking at Leviticus 23:15 - "'You shall also count for yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day when you brought in the sheaf of the wave offering; there shall be seven complete sabbaths. You shall count fifty days to the DAY AFTER THE SEVENTH SABBATH; then you shall present a new grain offering to the Lord.'" This is the Feast of Pentecost. It was one of the compulsory feasts of Israel.
Note on the day of Pentecost, a Sunday God's people were commanded to worship. God says, "On this same day you shall make a proclamation as well; you are to have a holy convocation. You shall do no laborious work. It is to be perpetual statute in all your dwelling places throughout your generations." Leviticus 23:21.
If you think this is only applying to "ceremonial" days, Leviticus 23 starts out talking about the weekly Sabbath (see Lev. 23:1-4). It is called an appointed time and a holy convocation, along with all the other feast days of Israel. No distinction is made by God between these holy days and the weekly Sabbath. He includes them as being equally holy. This would mean that under the Old Covenant the First Fruits Sunday and the Pentecost Sunday were as holy and sanctified as Saturday.
If you think this only applies to Israel, that's our point. The Ten Commandment Covenant, --the Old Covenant was made with Israel, and NOT with the Gentiles.
Look at Exodus 31:13, 16 and 17: "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you....So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever;..."
References for the 9 "moral" commandments reiterated in the New Testament:
1st - Worship God -
(53 times) Matthew 2:2; 2:8; 2:11; 4:9; 4:10; 14:33; 15:9; 28:9; 28:17, Mark 7:7, Luke 4:7; 4:8; 24:52, John 4:20,21,22(x2),23,24(x2); 9:38; 12:20, Acts 7:43; 8:27; 16:14; 17:23(x2); 18:7; 18:13; 19:27; 24:11, Romans 1:25; 12:1, 1 Corinthians 14:25, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:18, Hebrews 1:6; 9:1; 9:6; 10:2; 11:21, Revelation 4:10; 5:14; 7:11; 9:20; 11:1; 11:16; 14:7; 15:4; 19:4; 19:10; 22:8; 22:9
2nd - No Idolatry -
(20 times) Acts 15:20,29, Romans 1:25, 1 Corinthians 6:9; Chapter 8; 10:7,14; 12:2, 2 Corinthians 6:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:9, Galatians 5:20, Ephesians 5:5, Colossians 3:5, 1 Peter 4:3, 1 John 5:21, Revelation 2:14, 20; 9:20; 21:8; 22:15
3rd - No Profanity -
(4 times) Matthew 12:36, Ephesians 5:4, Romans 2:24, Revelation 16:9
5th - Honor Parents -
(6 times) Matthew 15:5, Matthew 19:19, Mark 7:10; 10:19, Luke 18:20, Ephesians 6:2
6th - Murder -
(7 times) Matthew 5:21; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 1:29; 13:9, James 2:11
7th - Adultery -
(12 times) Matthew 5:27,28,32; 19:9,18, Mark 10:11,19, Luke 16:18; 18:20, Romans 13:9, James 2:11, 2 Peter 2:14
8th - Stealing -
(6 times) Matthew 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 2:21; 13:9, Ephesians 4:28
9th - Lying -
(4 times) Matthew 15:9; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20
10th - Don't Covet -
(9 times) Mark 7:22, Luke 12:15, Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9, Ephesians 5:3, Colossians 3:5, Hebrews 13:5, 2 Peter 2:14
The Sabbath & Sunday
NEW LIGHT ON CEREMONIAL SABBATHS AND COLOSSIANS 2:16
An unbiased reading of Colossians 2:16 will show that this is talking about not just "ceremonial Sabbaths." The words "ton sabbaton" or "sabbath days"; are the same words translated "Sabbath day" in Exodus 20:8 in the Septuagint (the Jewish translation of the Old Testament into Greek).
Look at Paul's reasoning, "Let no one judge you regarding a,
• festival - yearly Sabbaths,
• a new moon - monthly Sabbaths,
• or a Sabbath day - weekly Sabbaths (or if you wish Sabbath days)"
• CHRIST, he goes on to say is the "Substance", these things were shadows.
When this passage is compared with Galatians 4:9 an obvious connection in Paul's teaching is revealed:
"But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years."
Verse 10 flatly states, "you observe...",
• days (weekly Sabbaths, corresponding to "Sabbath days in Col. 2)
• months (new moons, corresponding to "a new moon" in Col. 2)
• seasons (the 7 feasts, corresponding to "festivals" in Col. 2)
• and years (the sabbatical year and the 50th year of Jubilee)
Obviously Paul is clearing speaking about the observances of all Jewish holy day, including the Sabbath.
SABBATARIANS have long challenged, "Find one verse in the Bible that shows the day of worship has been changed from Sabbath to Sunday."
Well, that statement is part of building a straw man. It is not the issue. The New Testament makes that a moot point because it says it doesn't matter what day you worship on.
Romans 14:5
"One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind."
Galatians 4:9-11 "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain."
Colossians 2:16-17 "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."
SABBATARIANS ASK FOR ONE TEXT IN THE BIBLE THAT COMMANDS SUNDAY WORSHIP, HERE IT IS:
LEVITICUS 23:5-11 - Look at verse 11: "'And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.'" The day after the Sabbath is Sunday.
Read on specifically looking at Leviticus 23:15 - "'You shall also count for yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day when you brought in the sheaf of the wave offering; there shall be seven complete sabbaths. You shall count fifty days to the DAY AFTER THE SEVENTH SABBATH; then you shall present a new grain offering to the Lord.'" This is the Feast of Pentecost. It was one of the compulsory feasts of Israel.
Note on the day of Pentecost, a Sunday God's people were commanded to worship. God says, "On this same day you shall make a proclamation as well; you are to have a holy convocation. You shall do no laborious work. It is to be perpetual statute in all your dwelling places throughout your generations." Leviticus 23:21.
If you think this is only applying to "ceremonial" days, Leviticus 23 starts out talking about the weekly Sabbath (see Lev. 23:1-4). It is called an appointed time and a holy convocation, along with all the other feast days of Israel. No distinction is made by God between these holy days and the weekly Sabbath. He includes them as being equally holy. This would mean that under the Old Covenant the First Fruits Sunday and the Pentecost Sunday were as holy and sanctified as Saturday.
If you think this only applies to Israel, that's our point. The Ten Commandment Covenant, --the Old Covenant was made with Israel, and NOT with the Gentiles.
Look at Exodus 31:13, 16 and 17: "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you....So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever;..."
References for the 9 "moral" commandments reiterated in the New Testament:
1st - Worship God -
(53 times) Matthew 2:2; 2:8; 2:11; 4:9; 4:10; 14:33; 15:9; 28:9; 28:17, Mark 7:7, Luke 4:7; 4:8; 24:52, John 4:20,21,22(x2),23,24(x2); 9:38; 12:20, Acts 7:43; 8:27; 16:14; 17:23(x2); 18:7; 18:13; 19:27; 24:11, Romans 1:25; 12:1, 1 Corinthians 14:25, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:18, Hebrews 1:6; 9:1; 9:6; 10:2; 11:21, Revelation 4:10; 5:14; 7:11; 9:20; 11:1; 11:16; 14:7; 15:4; 19:4; 19:10; 22:8; 22:9
2nd - No Idolatry -
(20 times) Acts 15:20,29, Romans 1:25, 1 Corinthians 6:9; Chapter 8; 10:7,14; 12:2, 2 Corinthians 6:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:9, Galatians 5:20, Ephesians 5:5, Colossians 3:5, 1 Peter 4:3, 1 John 5:21, Revelation 2:14, 20; 9:20; 21:8; 22:15
3rd - No Profanity -
(4 times) Matthew 12:36, Ephesians 5:4, Romans 2:24, Revelation 16:9
5th - Honor Parents -
(6 times) Matthew 15:5, Matthew 19:19, Mark 7:10; 10:19, Luke 18:20, Ephesians 6:2
6th - Murder -
(7 times) Matthew 5:21; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 1:29; 13:9, James 2:11
7th - Adultery -
(12 times) Matthew 5:27,28,32; 19:9,18, Mark 10:11,19, Luke 16:18; 18:20, Romans 13:9, James 2:11, 2 Peter 2:14
8th - Stealing -
(6 times) Matthew 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 2:21; 13:9, Ephesians 4:28
9th - Lying -
(4 times) Matthew 15:9; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20
10th - Don't Covet -
(9 times) Mark 7:22, Luke 12:15, Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9, Ephesians 5:3, Colossians 3:5, Hebrews 13:5, 2 Peter 2:14
The Sabbath & Sunday
You have posted scripture references but they do not adresss the question as to how we are to observe the Sabbath today, under Christ.
Under the Law, people were put to death for not strictly adhering to the rules of the Sabbath law, to the point of even gathering sticks to kindle a fire meant death.
Example
32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lordcommanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.
Numbers 15:32-36
What I am asking for from you, are the scriptures from the New Testament that guide and direct us as to how the Sabbath is to be observed today, so that the Church can be informed and instructed to properly observe the Sabbath today, while under Christ. We see how it was under Moses, what we all need to know is how we are to go about our Sabbath day, under Christ.
Some helpful examples might include:
- When does the Sabbath begin, Friday at sundown or Saturday 12:01am ?
- What can we do? Cook, make bed, travel. How far can we travel?
- Is it required that we attend a church service. How far away can we travel?
- Is Synagogue attendance mandatory?
- What is considered as work? Putting dishes on the table, or picking them up? Laundry or dishwasher?
- When does the Sabbath under Christ, officially end. Sundown Saturday or Midnight? Any leeway in the schedule for emergencies?
Maybe you could share with us how you go about observing the Sabbath each week, with the corresponding verses that teach you from the New Testament.
Remeber when quoting scripture references such as 1 John 3:4 which says...
Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
1 John 3:4
This scripture says nothing about how we are to observe the Sabbath today.
If the Church doesn’t know how to go about observing the Sabbath today, then how can she properly obey the Sabbath regulations that are required?
JPT
the Sabbath was not a shadow of Christ
[FONT="]1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.[/FONT]
[FONT="]2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[/FONT]
[FONT="]3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.[/FONT]
[FONT="]4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.[/FONT]
[FONT="]9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
How do we enter into this Rest which the 7th day sabbath was a shadow of?
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.[/FONT]
Jesus did not fulfill the Sabbath rest when he died.
[/FONT]If the Lord Jesus didn't fulfill the sabbath rest then this is a lie.
And the Lord Himself mis-spoke in Matthew 5 when He said He came to fulfill the law.
1 Timothy 1:7 [FONT="]Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
[/FONT]I guess they don't understand that they are against the Lord Jesus and Paul both with their philosophy.
In Matthew 11 Jesus was rebuking the cities which rejected His Teaching,
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Then Jesus quoted Jer. 16.
Jer. 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.
16 Thus saith the LORD(Jesus), Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths,(My Yoke) where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
As it is to this day.
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Then Jesus quoted Jer. 16.
Jer. 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.
16 Thus saith the LORD(Jesus), Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths,(My Yoke) where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
As it is to this day.
=Grandpa;3408496]
Under the Law means being dead in our sins. If Jesus washes our sins away, then were are no longer (dead) "under" the Law but (Alive) under Grace. The wages of sin is death. But if Jesus took our past sins away, then that sin no longer has the power to kill us. "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."
shall we continue to sin? God forbid as Paul clearly teaches.
So GP, it isn't TMS that is against Jesus and His teaching. It is you. Because if I steal, or murder, or kill, or defile God's Sabbath, then I have sinned again and am in need of more of Christ's Blood. And for what? Catholic tradition? You don't like being told what to do?
I asked you once how Jesus death fulfilled "thou Shall not commit Adultery". Then I asked you how Jesus death fulfilled "take the blood of the bullock and sprinkle it on the horns of the Alter for the sins of the people".
You refused to answer this questions because the answer condemns your preaching and justifies the Bibles.
shall we continue to sin? God forbid as Paul clearly teaches.
So GP, it isn't TMS that is against Jesus and His teaching. It is you. Because if I steal, or murder, or kill, or defile God's Sabbath, then I have sinned again and am in need of more of Christ's Blood. And for what? Catholic tradition? You don't like being told what to do?
I asked you once how Jesus death fulfilled "thou Shall not commit Adultery". Then I asked you how Jesus death fulfilled "take the blood of the bullock and sprinkle it on the horns of the Alter for the sins of the people".
You refused to answer this questions because the answer condemns your preaching and justifies the Bibles.
Hebrews 4 speaks of two rests. The Gospel and the Sabbath. One can not keep the Sabbath unless they are experiencing the Gospel.
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
The Rest, His Rest here is the Gospel. This is reiterated in the next verse.
2.For unto us was the Gospel preached , as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
The Gospel which is the New Covenant, the placing of God's commandments, His Word, His intent into our hearts and minds through the indwelling of His Spirit. This is the rest in verse 1 which we enter into through faith. Or do not enter into because of unbelief (obstinate and rebellious disobedience).
This unbelief is discussed earlier in chapter 3
Hebrews
3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day, [now] if ye will hear his voice,......
8 Harden not your hearts,......
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For they do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, (his indwelling Spirit) if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? [was it] not with them that had sinned,
Through an Evil heart of unbelief, we depart from the living God, hardened through the deceitfulness of sin we will not know His ways.
So today hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation when they did provoke. Them that sinned, evil hearted unbelievers, hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. Which whom was He grieved? Them that sinned and had not held their confidence steadfast unto the end. These are those who had not entered into His Rest therefore had never kept a Sabbath
Now Back to chapter 4:1,2
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it]4:3 For we which have believed, do enter into rest.
We do enter into His Rest, receive the Gospel the New Covenant, Which is His Commandments, His Word in our Hearts and in our minds. The anointing; Christ in us the Hope of Glory. For it is He that worketh in us to will and do His good pleasure. Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think anything as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God.
2 Cor. 3:5 Heb 8:10
3 As he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
This rest is still speaking of the Gospel. The works for our salvation in the Gospel were finished from beginning when He had laid the foundation of the World.
We trampled on the gift of the Gospel from the Beginning of time and even though we deserve God's wrath salvation is still available to us.
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love..... the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:8; Eph 1:4
Now pay attention please.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this again, If they shall enter into my rest.
And this again, the Sabbath, the Seventh Day if we enter into, receive His rest, the Gospel, the indwelling of His Spirit.
For God spoke of the Seventh Day in a certain place and that certain place was on Mt Sinia.
And this again he speaks it says in verse 4 and 5, "if we shall enter into His Rest," receive the Gospel.
6.Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Remember the previous chapter they Never received the Gospel therefore since they never truly enter into union with the Father they never truly kept a Sabbath. They could not due to their unbelief through the deceitfulness of sin.
A unholy being cannot keep a day holy, sanctified. Their very presence defiles it.
So they never truly kept the Sabbath. They were defiled by the deceitfulness of sin. We are enjoined to rest and to keep the day Holy. If we have iniquity on our hearts it prevents us from keeping it Holy. Therefore they never truly kept it in the way our Lord YHWH had intended.
7.Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David [Ps 95:7,8] To day, [ Now ]after so long a time; as it is said , To day [Right now] if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts as in the day of provocation, 8.For if Jesus had given them rest , [Joshua leading the children of Israel into the promised land] , then would he, David, [See Psalm 95] not afterward have spoken of another day.
Verses six through eight are a call to repentance. Today (in other words now) after so long a time today (right now) if you will hear His voice harden not your hearts. Receive the rest that we receive in Christ, the Gospel. For He is our God and we are the people of His Pasture, His Resting, His indwelling; for we are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them and walk in them Heb 8:10 I will put my laws into their mind and write them in their hearts and I will be their God and they shall be my people.That is the Gospel; the New Covenant.
9.There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
The Greek word here in verse 9 for rest means a "sabbathing", a keeping of a Sabbath. Prior to this the Greek word used for rest meant to rest, to stop. That is why it was used in relation to the Gospel. God wants us to stop living our lives in sin and live our lives in Him. Rest in Him. His Rest, the Gospel. For it is He that wants to work in you both to will and do His good pleasure.
10.For he that is entered into his rest [received the Gospel. Which by the way enables us to be Holy and remain so, through His indwelling Spirit ], he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His.
Did you get that? Because of receiving the Gospel we cease from our own works as GOD did from His. "As is" is a direct comparison. So with that you must ask yourself how and when did God cease from his own works. The answer to that is recorded in Gen 2.... on the Seventh Day, And God did rest from all His work on the seventh day (see Hebrews Verse 4 and Genesis Chapter 2:1-3).
God Is a Spiritual Being he is always in the state of Spiritual Rest. On the Seventh Day Sabbath he ceased from the physical labor of creation. Which is recorded in Genesis 2.
Therefore He that received the Gospel, cease from their own physical work as God did from His physical work on the 7th day Sabbath. And this is, was and will continue to be done on the Seventh day of the week into eternity.
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
(Isa 66:23 KJV)
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
The Rest, His Rest here is the Gospel. This is reiterated in the next verse.
2.For unto us was the Gospel preached , as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
The Gospel which is the New Covenant, the placing of God's commandments, His Word, His intent into our hearts and minds through the indwelling of His Spirit. This is the rest in verse 1 which we enter into through faith. Or do not enter into because of unbelief (obstinate and rebellious disobedience).
This unbelief is discussed earlier in chapter 3
Hebrews
3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day, [now] if ye will hear his voice,......
8 Harden not your hearts,......
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For they do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, (his indwelling Spirit) if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? [was it] not with them that had sinned,
Through an Evil heart of unbelief, we depart from the living God, hardened through the deceitfulness of sin we will not know His ways.
So today hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation when they did provoke. Them that sinned, evil hearted unbelievers, hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. Which whom was He grieved? Them that sinned and had not held their confidence steadfast unto the end. These are those who had not entered into His Rest therefore had never kept a Sabbath
Now Back to chapter 4:1,2
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it]4:3 For we which have believed, do enter into rest.
We do enter into His Rest, receive the Gospel the New Covenant, Which is His Commandments, His Word in our Hearts and in our minds. The anointing; Christ in us the Hope of Glory. For it is He that worketh in us to will and do His good pleasure. Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think anything as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God.
2 Cor. 3:5 Heb 8:10
3 As he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
This rest is still speaking of the Gospel. The works for our salvation in the Gospel were finished from beginning when He had laid the foundation of the World.
We trampled on the gift of the Gospel from the Beginning of time and even though we deserve God's wrath salvation is still available to us.
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love..... the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:8; Eph 1:4
Now pay attention please.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this again, If they shall enter into my rest.
And this again, the Sabbath, the Seventh Day if we enter into, receive His rest, the Gospel, the indwelling of His Spirit.
For God spoke of the Seventh Day in a certain place and that certain place was on Mt Sinia.
And this again he speaks it says in verse 4 and 5, "if we shall enter into His Rest," receive the Gospel.
6.Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Remember the previous chapter they Never received the Gospel therefore since they never truly enter into union with the Father they never truly kept a Sabbath. They could not due to their unbelief through the deceitfulness of sin.
A unholy being cannot keep a day holy, sanctified. Their very presence defiles it.
So they never truly kept the Sabbath. They were defiled by the deceitfulness of sin. We are enjoined to rest and to keep the day Holy. If we have iniquity on our hearts it prevents us from keeping it Holy. Therefore they never truly kept it in the way our Lord YHWH had intended.
7.Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David [Ps 95:7,8] To day, [ Now ]after so long a time; as it is said , To day [Right now] if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts as in the day of provocation, 8.For if Jesus had given them rest , [Joshua leading the children of Israel into the promised land] , then would he, David, [See Psalm 95] not afterward have spoken of another day.
Verses six through eight are a call to repentance. Today (in other words now) after so long a time today (right now) if you will hear His voice harden not your hearts. Receive the rest that we receive in Christ, the Gospel. For He is our God and we are the people of His Pasture, His Resting, His indwelling; for we are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them and walk in them Heb 8:10 I will put my laws into their mind and write them in their hearts and I will be their God and they shall be my people.That is the Gospel; the New Covenant.
9.There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
The Greek word here in verse 9 for rest means a "sabbathing", a keeping of a Sabbath. Prior to this the Greek word used for rest meant to rest, to stop. That is why it was used in relation to the Gospel. God wants us to stop living our lives in sin and live our lives in Him. Rest in Him. His Rest, the Gospel. For it is He that wants to work in you both to will and do His good pleasure.
10.For he that is entered into his rest [received the Gospel. Which by the way enables us to be Holy and remain so, through His indwelling Spirit ], he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His.
Did you get that? Because of receiving the Gospel we cease from our own works as GOD did from His. "As is" is a direct comparison. So with that you must ask yourself how and when did God cease from his own works. The answer to that is recorded in Gen 2.... on the Seventh Day, And God did rest from all His work on the seventh day (see Hebrews Verse 4 and Genesis Chapter 2:1-3).
God Is a Spiritual Being he is always in the state of Spiritual Rest. On the Seventh Day Sabbath he ceased from the physical labor of creation. Which is recorded in Genesis 2.
Therefore He that received the Gospel, cease from their own physical work as God did from His physical work on the 7th day Sabbath. And this is, was and will continue to be done on the Seventh day of the week into eternity.
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
(Isa 66:23 KJV)
He rebuked cities which were full of people who zealously kept feasts, new moon festivals and sabbath for their unbelief.
we played the flute, but you didn't dance - we sang a dirge, but you didn't mourn
we observed a ritual, went through motions, but it did not effect a reality
the reality, Christ Jesus the Messiah, was right there walking among them, but they saw nothing but the backside of a veil, and did not repent.
for 40 years in the wilderness, everyone who did not keep the sabbaths according to the letter was put to death. the whole congregation threw rocks at them until they were dead.
there were no living people there who did not keep sabbath - once a week anyone who did not was culled - unless by "keep sabbath" we are definitely not talking about the ceremonial cessation of labor required by the Law, but about true rest in Him.
there were no living people there who did not keep sabbath - once a week anyone who did not was culled - unless by "keep sabbath" we are definitely not talking about the ceremonial cessation of labor required by the Law, but about true rest in Him.
This is sure a long winded explanation showing that you DON'T understand what you are talking about.
Here, try this one simple verse, maybe it will sink in.
Hebrews 4:10 [FONT="]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[/FONT]Gods Rest isn't a saturday sabbath. God didn't need to rest every 7 days. He finished His Work on the 7th day.
There won't be resting on the 7th day in the Kingdom. There will be resting from one full moon to another, from one sabbath to another. In other words, ALL THE TIME.
You use mis-leading language inserting certain things that aren't true with certain things that are. You'll need to straighten that out eventually.
Matthew 11:28 [FONT="]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[/FONT]Is this only on saturdays? No.
This is the way to enter Rest. And its not a 7th day sabbath rest. Its Gods Rest. Which the 7th day was a shadow.
Colossians 2:16-17
[FONT="]16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.[/FONT]
Here, try this one simple verse, maybe it will sink in.
Hebrews 4:10 [FONT="]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[/FONT]Gods Rest isn't a saturday sabbath. God didn't need to rest every 7 days. He finished His Work on the 7th day.
There won't be resting on the 7th day in the Kingdom. There will be resting from one full moon to another, from one sabbath to another. In other words, ALL THE TIME.
You use mis-leading language inserting certain things that aren't true with certain things that are. You'll need to straighten that out eventually.
Matthew 11:28 [FONT="]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[/FONT]Is this only on saturdays? No.
This is the way to enter Rest. And its not a 7th day sabbath rest. Its Gods Rest. Which the 7th day was a shadow.
Colossians 2:16-17
[FONT="]16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.[/FONT]
2 Cor. 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
It is a lie to preach the Pharisees were obedient to God. Many preach it, but it is a lie all the same.
Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
They had created their own laws as Jesus said. Had they been zealous for God's Instruction (Turn to the Lord) as did Zechariahs was, or as did Jesus, they would not have been blinded. If you continue to preach falsehoods about God's Word, you will also remain blinded.
But if you turn to the Jesus of the Bible, and stop preaching falsehoods about His Word, He is faithful to open your eyes as well.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
It is a lie to preach the Pharisees were obedient to God. Many preach it, but it is a lie all the same.
Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
They had created their own laws as Jesus said. Had they been zealous for God's Instruction (Turn to the Lord) as did Zechariahs was, or as did Jesus, they would not have been blinded. If you continue to preach falsehoods about God's Word, you will also remain blinded.
But if you turn to the Jesus of the Bible, and stop preaching falsehoods about His Word, He is faithful to open your eyes as well.
Hi Grandpa,
Nice of you to join us again although I am not sure why you keep saying the same things that have already been shown through the scriptures that your interpretation of them is building on sifting sand.
If you need help with the scriptures above again and it will help you, just let me know. But all of the above have already been addressed soo many times already in this thread in my view it is a waste of time. However let me know if you would like the correct context that your interpretation is missing and I am happy to share the scriptures.
You have not addressed the OP on Col 2:16-17 or responded to the posts responding to your interpretation of Hebrews 4 and Matthew 11:28 so how is it possible to have a discussion with you when you say the the table it a chair the table is a chair when in fact the table is a table? Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it.
.............
God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)
Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
Nice of you to join us again although I am not sure why you keep saying the same things that have already been shown through the scriptures that your interpretation of them is building on sifting sand.
If you need help with the scriptures above again and it will help you, just let me know. But all of the above have already been addressed soo many times already in this thread in my view it is a waste of time. However let me know if you would like the correct context that your interpretation is missing and I am happy to share the scriptures.
You have not addressed the OP on Col 2:16-17 or responded to the posts responding to your interpretation of Hebrews 4 and Matthew 11:28 so how is it possible to have a discussion with you when you say the the table it a chair the table is a chair when in fact the table is a table? Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it.
.............
God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)
Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.