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Sep 14, 2017
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can you explain where he said we clean ourselves up?
They won't. They create a strawman outta thin air to set the scene for their buddies to attack. It's a common tactic.

If they can't win honestly, they'll win deceitfully.

You don't have to prove their doctrine is wrong to expose them, expose their attitudes & methods instead.

Ungodly attitudes is evil, no matter what doctrine they present.

If we could somehow split the people up so one group quoted the scripture, while the other searched out & exposed strawmen & attitudes, proving it would be so much easier.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Now Now EG,

I have never ever said or even suggested I could forgive my own sins (cleanse myself). That is low even for you.

But once Jesus has cleansed me He gave me instructions on how to live. I am not your enemy for pointing this out to you.

I am not "wrong" because I choose to pick up my cross and follow Jesus as He instructs.

He said for me to "pick up my cross" (That He gave me) and follow Him. He didn't say, "go your own way while I carry your cross for you".

Now honestly, are you really trying to convince people I'm saying I can forgive my own sins?

I don't think anyone sees that in my posts. I don't think you see that in my post.

But these things happen. I forgive you. :)
Have you not died to sin with Jesus? Been resurrected with Him? You know. The revelation given to Paul? What was accomplished by the Cross of Jesus?

So you must pick up your Cross and suffer the burden of what Jesus meant to free you? Or do you identify with His? And daily believe to faith in the power of ressurection life?

You have not yet come to sabbath rest and are yet struggling to do what has already been "finished".

EG sees much more than you realize.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Beautifully stated!! :D

People keep trying to finish what Jesus has already done, thereby falsely making the work of Jesus incomplete.



Have you not died to sin with Jesus? Been resurrected with Him? You know. The revelation given to Paul? What was accomplished by the Cross of Jesus?

So you must pick up your Cross and suffer the burden of what Jesus meant to free you? Or do you identify with His? And daily believe to faith in the power of ressurection life?

You have not yet come to sabbath rest and are yet struggling to do what has already been "finished".

EG sees much more than you realize.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
It's our human nature. And it makes us unloving towards others, and judgmental. Truthfully? We can be tripped up very easily when we get hurt by others. Then we want to control what others do to avoid this, and make them toe the line. That's what is behind religion. Controlling actions.

Jesus has given us a new heart. A new nature. And faith is the key to unlocking His power of release to us.

Im so tired of getting my foot entangled by this myself. I want to love as He loves...and see others freed too.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Well there is no deceit and this is not a hypergrace issue, it is an historical issue and goes way back.

What people fail to realize it that the Roman church still has its bad theology infused in Protestant denominations and the true meaning of the word metanoia means to change ones mind. The English word repent used to be more closely aligned with the concept of changing one's mind but over time has turned into turning from sin.

Modern dictionaries are no longer give the older definitions and language changes over time.

The Roman church is big on repentance as turning from sin, contrition and self-flagellation so if you see repentance in this way you are more in line with Roman Catholicism than true evangelicalism

Here is some more help.

A thorough study of the Reformation and Counter Reformation is also very helpful


We recently discovered an outstanding little book on the subject written in the late 19th century, which you must get your hands on. It's called "The Great Meaning of Metanoia" by an Episcopalian minister named Treadwell Walden. Unfortunately, the Revised Version left untouched the word "repentance", and Walden wrote to express his disappointment.

Scholars who worked on the Revised Version and other New Testament professors wrote to Walden expressing their support of his position, admitting that the word "repentance" is a bad translation of "metanoia", for it doesn't carry the word's meaning at all. Walden's original essay is brilliant and full of apostolic character which is often so lacking in traditional Christianity. The book is out of print, but the University of California Library prints it on demand for somewhere between $15-$20 dollars (here). I think it is worth every penny.


Timothy Ministry: The Great Meaning of Metanoia






From: https://escapetoreality.org/2011/11/20/why-repentance-is-like-football/

What is repentance?
The Greek word commonly translated repentance (metanoia) literally means to change your mind. (You can check this out for yourself by looking up a Greek lexicon such as Thayer’s and Smith’s Bible Dictionary or Vines Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words.) The Greek word for repent (metanoeo) is similar and both words are derived from the Greek word for mind (nous). So to repent is to change your mind. Nothing more, nothing less. Let’s look at an example from scripture:
“The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!” (Mar 1:15)
This is where the football confusion starts to kick in. The religious mind interprets Jesus’ words as “turn from sin and believe the good news.” But that is not what Jesus is saying. Jesus is addressing unbelievers. He is saying “change your unbelieving mind and believe the good news.” Repentance is not primarily a sin issue, it’s a faith issue. We are born walking by sight and trusting in the flesh. Jesus says, change the way you think and believe the good news.

Now, from Thayer's Lexicon, you know, the one Paul Ellis quoted from:

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3340: μετανοέω

μετανοέω, μετάνω; future μετανοήσω; 1 aorist μετενόησα; from (Antiphon), Xenophondown; the Sept. several times for נִחַם; to change one's mind, i. e. to repent (
to feel sorry that one has done this or that, Jonah 3:9), of having offended someone, Luke 17:3f; with ἐπίτίνι added (the dative of the wrong, Hebrew עַל, Amos 7:3; Joel 2:13; Jonah 3:10; Jonah 4:2), of (on account of) something (so Latinme paenitet alicujus rei), 2 Corinthians 12:21; used especially of those who, conscious of their sins and with manifest tokens of sorrow, are intent; on obtaining God's pardon; to repent (Latinpaenitentiam agere): μετανοῶἐνσάκκῳκαίσποδῷ, clothed in sackcloth and besprinkled with ashes, Matthew 11:21; Luke 10:13. to change one's mind for the better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins: Matthew 3:2; Matthew 4:17; Mark 1:15 (cf. Matthew 3:6ἐξομολογούμενοιτάςἁμαρτίαςαὐτῶν; Matthew 3:8 and Luke 3:8καρπούςἀξίουςτῆςμετανοίας, i. e. conduct worthy of a heart changed and abhorring sin); (Matthew 11:20; Mark 6:12); Luke 13:3, 5; Luke 15:7, 10; Luke 16:30; Acts 2:38; Acts 3:19; Acts 17:30; Revelation 2:5, 16; Revelation 3:3, 19; on the phrase μετανοεῖνεἰςτόκήρυγματίνος, Matthew 12:41 and Luke 11:32, see εἰς, B. II. 2 d.; (Winer's Grammar, 397 (371)). Since τόμετανοεῖν expresses mental direction, the termini from which and to which may be specified: ἀπότῆςκακίας, to withdraw or turn one's soul from, etc. (cf. Winers Grammar, 622 (577); especially Buttmann, 322 (277)), Acts 8:22; ἐκτίνος, Revelation 2:21; Revelation 9:20; Revelation 16:11 (see ἐκ, I. 6; (cf. Buttmann, 327 (281), and Winer's Grammar, as above)); μετανοεῖνκαίἐπιστρέφεινἐπίτόνΘεόν, Acts 26:20; followed by an infinitive indicating purpose (Winer's Grammar, 318 (298)), Revelation 16:9. (Synonym: see μεταμέλομαι.)

When a person quotes a hypergrace deceiver (he admits he's hypergrace) in the forums, they are spreading deceit.

Whether or not they're aware of it is up for grabs.

But, they will answer to God for spreading deceit, whether they knew or not.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Matt 10:33 and Luke 12:9 Jesus said "if you deny me before man, I will deny you before the Father."
Then we find in Titus that a person can be a denier of God, by their very works.
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in WORKS they DENY Him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good WORK reprobate.
One can be a denier of God by their works.

However, One can not be saved by their works. Not can they maintain their salvation by their works (or lack of)

we are saved by Gods mercy, not by our good deeds

titus 3: 5. Not by works of righteousness which we have done but by HIS MERCY HE SAVED US.

Salvation is a done deal.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Now Now EG,

I have never ever said or even suggested I could forgive my own sins (cleanse myself). That is low even for you.

But once Jesus has cleansed me He gave me instructions on how to live. I am not your enemy for pointing this out to you.

I am not "wrong" because I choose to pick up my cross and follow Jesus as He instructs.

He said for me to "pick up my cross" (That He gave me) and follow Him. He didn't say, "go your own way while I carry your cross for you".

Now honestly, are you really trying to convince people I'm saying I can forgive my own sins?

I don't think anyone sees that in my posts. I don't think you see that in my post.

But these things happen. I forgive you. :)
Now Now Study, I have never said a person who is saved is free to live how he desires. Nor that we should not walk as Jesus walked.

And your continued insistence I do just destroys your ability to help people. Because it shows your true motivation. Which is to be proven true at all cost. Been lieing about others

You also evidently have not read much, MOST people here see that in your posts. If you can not be honest, how can you be trusted?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
those scriptures to you is jesus explaining why what He taught is not sufficient for you? How do you reach that conclusion? why do you need to omit everything else He said while on one hand you agree we have to believe in Him, yet what he taught, thats not for us to believe or " it doesnt apply to us as if we arent His disciples now or? i dont see how you take a few verses singly out of a whole chapter and point being made, and then claim it teaches you that jat Jesus taught is insufficient ?

heres my point clearly and concisely

john 3 " He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."


you have to also believe Jesus testimony and accept it as it is this is promised in deuteronomy 18:15-18 and confirmed in acts 3:22-26 by peter to be Jesus Christ. the One God promised to send, to speak His words after the people refused to hear him speak at horeb. God promised in deut 18"15-18, to send Jesus to speak His words and that all who will not heed His wpoken By Jesus, will be destroyed from Gods people. its not hard to believe and see if a person believes scripture above other ideas.

its support for Jesus saying this

john 12:48-50 " He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.


Moses was promised it, Jesus came fulfilling that promise and peter the apostle confirms that promise is extended to the world, first to the jews, and as paul comletes then to the gentiles. the same christ to all people, the dsame Gospel, the same eternal Kingdom promised to david, gentiles are now included in that promise through the seed of abraham and our faith in Him.


you scriptures are leaving out all the rest, sort of like you are saying " Jesus said " I will never condemn you no matter what you do" but really He said " neithr do i condemn you now go and sin no more"

he says it again here

john 5:14 "Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."


again Jesus heals the man with unwarranted goodness and mercy, forgives His sin, and then says " go and sin no more" its because like i said Jesus came to

luke 5:32"
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

its why paul says this after explaining from ch 6-8 a deep message he makes plain

romans 8:1 Therefore, brethren,
we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."



if you put to death the misdeeds of the flesh what are they ?

galatians 5 " Now
the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."



we have to stop sinning , that should not be an un acceptable doctrine, the bible teaches it from page one forward to the last page of revelation. stopping sin, is the result of Jesus Christ and His Gospel all of it. including His death and resurrection thats essential, so are His teachings and words because again, hes not Just another prophet He is the Christ, the annointed messiah sent with Gods eternal Word. you cant simply dismiss this truth salvation is as the word of God says clearly it is, if we accept Jesus and the things He teaches and follow after Him we will be saved . its not that hard to accept is it? who wouldnt agree to give thier lives to the One who suffered and died to offer them eternity ????


I will, and will always advise others very simply to learn and believe the Words of thier Lord and savior Jesus Christ. its the Gospel. and again im not saying anything is not sufficient, im just saying one thing doesnt omit the other, so i can agree to all of it without disagreeing or telling others something doesnt apply to them by a phantom explaination. scripture in truth, just is what it is, it says what it says, we are students trying to learn what it ays and retain and understand it. we have no place omitting anything because we dont agree with what it says is my belief, you cant understand the Bible by banking on one verse to tell the whole story, gotta let it fit together and its a perfect message that actually does redeem our lives from the power of darkness, which is serving sin we lie> its satans will. we cheat? its satans will. we kill, hate, judge others, disregard another in needs were able to help, those kinds of things are satans will.

satan has access to out minds when we slack off in our part and still is able to tempt and lead astray if we let Him. we have to cling to te Lord, believe in Him, trust His words are true understand they are greater because he says it.


Jesus states those as fact. You want to make Jesus contradict himself

You explain why he told the woman by her faith she can have eternal life as rivers of living water continually flowing without end, and letting her go home believing that if it was not true.

The people in john 6 the same

Remember,. They did not have the Bible you have, they had to take him at his word.

Your the one with issues, You can not resolve contradictions.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
There's been more people banned in that thread than any three others combined.

mph..me going huh

I wouldn't be surprised. I was warned in a dream to stay out of it...and folks can make of that what they will since I about never mention dreams or anything else related to any revelatory or supernatural way God may speak or deal with me

there is absolute wickedness in that thread and when it spills over...it's like it's hunting for fresh meat

no, I'm not crazy. it's a spiritual manifestation.

and of course I had to come back and say I am not singling out a human being here or anyone at all...the Bible says that our enemies are not flesh and blood and we can forget that

I am talking about those enemies...who sadly do mostly use weak flesh...including flesh that means well
 
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E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Matt.10:33 "whoever shall deny me" is a comprehensive aorist tense, referring not to one moment of denial (such as Peter's), but an entire lifelong resistance to Christ.

Yes, He who has faith has life, he who does not shall not see life but the wrath of God abides.

A person who does not have faiht in God denies him.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You said: Accuse one & not the other.

Actually you're right. You didn't say I was attacking him. You said I was "accusing him".

I used the wrong word. My apologies on that.

Make no bones about it, I have gotten into a few "heated discussions" with EG before.

We don't always see eye to eye.

I will speak my mind and hopefully not offend people since it is a Bible discussion forum.

I know how it can be to get really passionately involved in a discussion. I've been there a few times myself.

I don't hold any ill will to anyone.

I appreciate your viewpoint though thanks for sharing. I'll keep it in my mind for the future.

God bless you and keep you.

People have heated discussion a lot,not just in CC, but it should not cause such division and hate as it seems to cause in here. As if anyone who has a heated disussion is attacking each other. That is not always true.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
They won't. They create a strawman outta thin air to set the scene for their buddies to attack. It's a common tactic.

If they can't win honestly, they'll win deceitfully.

You don't have to prove their doctrine is wrong to expose them, expose their attitudes & methods instead.

Ungodly attitudes is evil, no matter what doctrine they present.

If we could somehow split the people up so one group quoted the scripture, while the other searched out & exposed strawmen & attitudes, proving it would be so much easier.
Take this up to a mirror and read it back to yourself

then practice what you preach.

Do you not think it is odd saying people attack you. Yet here you are attacking them.

That is call being a hypocrite.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Beautifully stated!! :D

People keep trying to finish what Jesus has already done, thereby falsely making the work of Jesus incomplete.
Amen, was it not Paul who called them fools who believe we begin in the spirit,. But perfected it by works?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest

He sure does.

He also gets by with more than you realize, too.

He's special to someone on CC, that's for sure.

Lol.. You think I have an in with the mods?? Lol. Now this is funny,.

The mods do not show favoritism, People from both sides of the debate have been banned..
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
They won't. They create a strawman outta thin air to set the scene for their buddies to attack. It's a common tactic.

If they can't win honestly, they'll win deceitfully.

You don't have to prove their doctrine is wrong to expose them, expose their attitudes & methods instead.

Ungodly attitudes is evil, no matter what doctrine they present.

If we could somehow split the people up so one group quoted the scripture, while the other searched out & exposed strawmen & attitudes, proving it would be so much easier.

yeah....

nobody wins that way and certainly not the people Jesus died for

What is the source of quarrels and conflicts among you? [b]Is not the source your pleasures that wage war in your members?2 You lust and do not have; so you commit murder. You are envious and cannot obtain; soyou fight and quarrel. You do not have because you do not ask.

3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask [c]with wrong motives, so that you may spend it [d]on your pleasures.4 You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

5 Or do you think that the Scripture speaks to no purpose: “[e]He [f]jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us”?6 But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, “God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.9 Be miserable and mourn and weep; let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy to gloom.10 Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you. James 4


you cannot obey the above by saying it is all the work of God and we just punch in a salvation and out when we are 6 ft under.

 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
What people fail to realize it that the Roman church still has its bad theology infused in Protestant denominations and the true meaning of the word metanoia means to change ones mind. The English word repent used to be more closely aligned with the concept of changing one's mind but over time has turned into turning from sin.
well I know you picked that up right here in the forums...or at least a copy/paste version of it

nonsense...sorry, but in what way, shape or form does that say we don't also change our behavior?

does changing one's mind not change how we behave?

IMO, there is NO difference

if we renew our minds, as per scripture instructions, then of course our minds are changed. duh

honestly, can we just actually go a little further then picking up handy dandy expressions along the way or RC errors as an excuse as to why the Bible does not say what in fact it does say?

and truly I am not picking on you...or angry at you...or whatever

I've read the RC posts, including this one, more than once and whole lotta other nonsense that was deposited here once upon a time

see the harm it does? well...I don't suppose that is the view of certain folks, but it is the reality :(

sigh...and one more thing...who told you what people do or do not realize????
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,160
30,309
113
mph..me going huh

I wouldn't be surprised. I was warned in a dream to stay out of it...and folks can make of that what they will since I about never mention dreams or anything else related to any revelatory or supernatural way God may speak or deal with me

there is absolute wickedness in that thread and when it spills over...it's like it's hunting for fresh meat

no, I'm not crazy. it's a spiritual manifestation.

and of course I had to come back and say I am not singling out a human being here or anyone at all...the Bible says that our enemies are not flesh and blood and we can forget that

I am talking about those enemies...who sadly do mostly use weak flesh...including flesh that means well
Babes in Christ have commented on more than one occasion how grateful they are for the defenders of the faith in the NBW thread, those who do spiritual battle against the legalists and workers for salvation. It is not for everyone to post in every thread or take up such defenses, but many seem to love using that thread as a target for their shooting practice in other threads all over this site, as if somehow when they are being critical, they are magically exempt from the labels they love to stick on others, no matter which thread they are in. One thing anyone who does spend any time there may notice, is how often the very fact that there is any amount of unity and fellowship in the NBW thread, is called something else, as if unity and fellowship itself was a bad thing, and made us all a bunch of wolves.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Have you not died to sin with Jesus? Been resurrected with Him? You know. The revelation given to Paul? What was accomplished by the Cross of Jesus?

So you must pick up your Cross and suffer the burden of what Jesus meant to free you? Or do you identify with His? And daily believe to faith in the power of ressurection life?

You have not yet come to sabbath rest and are yet struggling to do what has already been "finished".

EG sees much more than you realize.
You are a very good friend of EG to defend him. Loyalty is a good thing. But I never ever even suggested anywhere on this forum or any where else, that I could forgive my own sins. It was a cheap shot, it is a lie, and he shouldn't have said as much. But I forgave him so the slate is clean to start anew.

At one point in my life I stole, I dishonored God by defiling Jesus' Sabbaths that He created for me, I broke His Commandments because I didn't care about Him. But something happened to me. I was drawn to "Seek" Him. I found out He actually died so my rebellion and dishonor towards Him could be taken away. That is good news.

So I turned to Him as did many examples in the Bible. Why would I demand more Blood from Him by stealing any more? Why would I dishonor Him by continuing to defile His Sabbaths that He created for me?

We all have God's Word and we all have the serpent's word, just like Eve. We all make the choice between the two as Jesus wrote before becoming a man. (Duet. 30)

God's Word teaches honor, respect and obedience to God/Jesus and His instructions.

The other claims to be from God as well, but teaches us we don't have to honor, respect or obey God's Instructions. It's so simple even a child can understand. As Paul teaches.

2 Cor. 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2 Cor. 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

So I have entered the Rest" of God in that I no longer do my own "works" but the Works created by Jesus that are in me, written on my heart. This would include honoring His Sabbath that He created for me, that He is Lord of, that both Him and Paul walked their whole lives.

Now the serpent is still there as well. It has a doctrine and uses the Word of God to promote it. It has always taught that we don't need to listen to God's Words, that we can create our own truth.

This teaching does indeed "LOOK" good to many as it did with Eve.

"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes,

But I don't trust my sight as Jesus explained it is evil and wicked above all things. I trust Jesus to guide my steps, not some church, or the pope, or my own thoughts or the serpent.

Jesus life as a man on earth is "Finished". My life as a man on earth is not. I am to endure to the end as He did. I am to live by EVERY Word that He speaks, both as a man and as God of the Old Testament.

Matt. 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me,(Not the serpent disguised as an Apostle of Christ) in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

This is my hope.